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Newsday: NYI payroll article/possible moves

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Old
11-10-2003, 09:12 AM
  #26
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
Malhotra makes 1.05, Wiemer 1.65...small savings, but in long run, Wiemer is 27, Malhotra is 23.

Stirling said Weinhandl had a spot before Bergenheim and Hunter showed they are everynight players.
Which means what?

Weimer is no game breaker, but the idea that there is ANY advantage to exchanging him for a regular healthy scratch because of the 4 year age difference is silly. It is no advantage, whatsoever.

***

Bergenheim and Hunter have showed they are "everynight players" through one month of the NHL schedule. Granted, Hunter appears to be ready for the NHL, but to pass that judgment on either player based on 14 NHL games is premature and jumping to conclusions.

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11-10-2003, 09:13 AM
  #27
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I should have qualified it.
I believe in the next CBA, to balance any cap, the UFA age will drop, close to Wiemer's age next year.

If you're cutting some salary, you may as well get a guy with similar qualities, who will be around a while.

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Old
11-10-2003, 09:17 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Which means what?

Weimer is no game breaker, but the idea that there is ANY advantage to exchanging him for a regular healthy scratch because of the 4 year age difference is silly. It is no advantage, whatsoever.

***

Bergenheim and Hunter have showed they are "everynight players" through one month of the NHL schedule. Granted, Hunter appears to be ready for the NHL, but to pass that judgment on wither player based on 14 NHL games is premature and jumping to conclusions.
I like Malholtra personally. I'm just not sure he brings naything to the Isles that Scatchard, Mapletoft et al. don't already bring. For that reason, I wouldn't want to bring him in.

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11-10-2003, 09:20 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Well Darth--after our "debate" last Fri it looks as though the isles will indeed cut payroll---and sooner than either you or I expected. But one thing you were off on was saying Wang had ALREADY had the payroll factored in for this year--when Hahn has said that the isles are 7 MILLION OVER PAYROLL. Include the bad attendance and you have a team looking to shed payroll. I would not mind seeing Weimer go --I think he can be replaced but the isles cannot just cut him--that sends a very bad message to the fans, especially when you consider what we traded to get him. Now would you rather trade Parrish for Gauthier and a pick and keep Weimer or waive Weimer for nothing.
Answer: Neither.

They won't waive Weimer because he does have some trade value.

They won't trade Parrish for Gauthier and a pick. Then, the Isles would have nine NHL dmen under contract. Besides, Gauthier simply isn't that good.

The Isles have basically lost money every year for the last decade or so. I'm never surprised when they make moves to cut payroll, and I would certainly not be shocked to see Wiemer, Parrish, and others dealt. My only concern here is the return. I'm not interested in seeing 4th liners (like Maholtra) or #5 dmen (like Gauithier) come back.

If Parrish is traded, I think you'll be surprised at how much he'll bring in return. He is an easy 25 goal scorer with upside as a 30 goal man. Not a gamebreaker by any means, but a legitimate #2 winger.

Wiemer probably has limited trade value, but I still think there is more than one NHL team out there that would love to have him.

So, I don't think you'll see Wiemer waived and I don't think you'll see Parrish dealt for a Gauithier-type dman.

But, as always, anything can happen.

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Old
11-10-2003, 09:31 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Bergenheim and Hunter have showed they are "everynight players" through one month of the NHL schedule. Granted, Hunter appears to be ready for the NHL, but to pass that judgment on either player based on 14 NHL games is premature and jumping to conclusions.
But we are talking about whether to play these guys or a guy with a whopping 47 games. And we aren't talking about trading Weinhandl, we're talking about letting him continue his development in the AHL, as we did with Hunter the previous two years.

I don't see why passing judgement on Bergenheim and Hunter would be any less legitimate than passing judgement on Weinhandl?

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Old
11-10-2003, 09:53 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
Weinhandl last played at the beginning of April before once again playing in November. Between those dates he was on crutches, in a cast and rehabbing at various times. 8 months, more than half a year.

I have no problem with benching Papineau, who I believe has looked awful. I just don't see losing him for nothing by waiving him to bring up a player with development time left a good strategy.

Weinhandl broke his ankle just days before the Sens/Isles playoff series started.

He missed 5 games before the nyi season was officially ended.

His rehab has kept him out of training camp and the first 13 regular games of the season.


23 yr old Papineau has been traded twice.Both the Kings and Blues saw how he disappears when the play turns physical.

At the end of last season Milbury was quoted saying Papineau had to 'address that courage thing'....well he played about 12 games with the nyi last season,scoring 2 goals.He's played 12 games so far this season and has a whopping 0 goals,2 assists.


Yeah Papineau's really addressing that courage thing.

Sterling has said players who produce will play.well Let Papineau produce or trade or demote him(even if it means another team grabs him off waivers).

Isles aren't good enough that they can carry a soft,non- productive,small winger.

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Old
11-10-2003, 09:57 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Weinhandl broke his ankle just days before the Sens/Isles playoff series started.

He missed 5 games before the nyi season was officially ended.

His rehab has kept him out of training camp and the first 13 regular games of the season.
He hadn't skated competitively for 8 months. You don't think his timing is off? Do you think his step is as quick as it was? I don't. I think he needs time to get back in the flow, and until then, play Papineau.

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11-10-2003, 10:14 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
and until then, play Papineau.
I agree Papineau needs to play before we determine if he is good or not. I would definately not lose him to waivers for nothing. I think he can be our left wing on Peca's line. Play him more than 8 mins and find out!!

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:19 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Wiemer probably has limited trade value, but I still think there is more than one NHL team out there that would love to have him.
That might be--but now that the isles have gone public with this what can the isles realisticlly expect in return? A draft pick--not much more--ARGH!!!

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:21 AM
  #35
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Wiemer's attitude--Sounds like it is being questioned again

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:50 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
That might be--but now that the isles have gone public with this what can the isles realisticlly expect in return? A draft pick--not much more--ARGH!!!

So, let' assume that Wiemer does have an "attitude" problem (and I have no reason to believe that is not the case - I don't know anything about his attitude). Are you suggesting we keep him and then deal Parrish instead? Wouldn't you want to be rid of an attitude problem?

As far as I can tell, Wiemer is as good as gone (at least from what Hahn suggests). Parrish is less likely but also a possibility.

Personally, I'm still fine with seeing either guy go. I just want decent return (i.e., Not Gauithier, Maholtra, etc).

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:54 AM
  #37
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That's the entire point...and my issue here, Darth. As you state, trading Parrish, Weimer, etc. in and of itself is not a sacreligous thought. :p

The idea that they are being moved strictly to pare salary is. And I see no reason whatsoever to think that Wanger & Co. feel any great need to get fair value in return. The goal here is to sell off contract$, IMO.

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11-10-2003, 10:55 AM
  #38
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Weimer is ALREADY gone!!!!! The question now is for what??? I don't mind seeing him go but I don't think we will get more than a draft pick for him---and that my friends is horrible!!!

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:03 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Big Peca posted this article on the nyi board.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hocke...ports-headlines


So please,spare us nyi fans your underwhelming offers such as:

Peca for you 3rd liner,Niinimma for your team's soft 20 goal scorer or Hamrlik or your 27 yr old AHL star
Why, because MM has such a long and prolific history of NOT making stupid deals that come back to haunt the team?

It sounds to me like a firesale is brewing and you islander fans will be underwhelmed witht the returns.

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:06 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Weimer is ALREADY gone!!!!! The question now is for what??? I don't mind seeing him go but I don't think we will get more than a draft pick for him---and that my friends is horrible!!!
It will almost have to be a deal involving a pick, because they Isles probably won't want to take on any $ in return.

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:12 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arankys
The Isles are quickly on route to turn from a tough up and coming team to a Eurocentric wimpy mess. If they are to trade Weimer a great3rd line heart and soul team player, Cairns theyre only tough physical D-man and one of the best fighters in the league and Mark Parrish not the most physical players but still gets his nose dirty im sure theyde want some cheaper similar gritty players in return.
Malhotra for Weimer is fair imo
Cairns for Lance Ward?
Parrish for a power forward type prospect which the Isles lack is also fair.

Godard,Malhotra,Scatchard,Ward,Asham still leaves them with enough toughness.
The Isles lack size and grit in to their top six. Even with guys like Scatch and Asham on the third line, we're in trouble. We haven't got a single big gritty player in the top six.

personally, I'm ready to see Cairns and Wiemer gone. Have no desire to move Parrish, but I'm up for that too if something good is coming back.

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:14 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Dale Hunter
Why, because MM has such a long and prolific history of NOT making stupid deals that come back to haunt the team?

It sounds to me like a firesale is brewing and you islander fans will be underwhelmed witht the returns.

Well, given that the the ISLES GM said in his press conference this morning that Wiemer is basically gone and that no other moves would be made, I see little reason to believe that you are correct. Although, your point that our GM has a horrible history in terms of deals is a good one.

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Old
11-10-2003, 11:27 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arankys
I agree the Isles lack any size or toughness on their top 6 fw and on D other then Cairns who i think is a great #6.

I know for a fact the Isles would love to get Lance Ward.
Maybe Parrish could land Abid and a prosect?

Parrish should land a lot more than Abid and a prospect but that is beside the point. Like I said, Wiemer is gone immediately and Parrish is going to be on the Island for some time to come.

You made some claims about Lance Ward on the Ducks board a little earlier and I thought that was out of blue air at the time. I'm really not sure how you got the impression that the Isles "would love to land Lance Ward." Do you have a link or a source? As far as I can tell, the Isles have no intention of bringing in anymore defensemen and have not shown any interest in defense related moves in quite some time. According to Newsday, the Isles want to move Cairns and bring up Timander. They will still have seven NHL defensemen on the roster and have made it clear that none of the top four wil be moved.

Basically, as far as a guy like Lance Ward is concerned, I'm willing to bet that the Isles would have no interest at any cost. The defense is set and they're not looking to acquire more $ on the payroll. And, Lance Ward is a pretty marginal guy who wouldn't dress on a nightly basis.

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11-10-2003, 12:28 PM
  #44
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The point about the Isles and toughness is a valid one, especially if Cairns joins Weimer out the door.

This was a team who's GM went out and made tougher in the summer of '02 on the heels of the lessons learned in the Toronto series. Now he's looking to move out limited but useful players like Cairns and Weimer?

Will be fun to see Philly, NYR and other teams push NYI's skill players into the ice what without guys around to watch their back. And no, one talentless goon (Godard) is not enough. Asham is a middleweight and Scatchard is too valuable to be playing an enforcer role (Weimer).

Milbury has oodles of youth a few years back and trades them all away in moves designed for "now". Today he has a team built for the nearer-term, and instead of adding established talent (read: improving the team), he's looking to unload young vets in a salary dump and replace them with inexperienced youth.

What's the use (in supporting this team)?

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11-10-2003, 01:07 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
This was a team who's GM went out and made tougher in the summer of '02 on the heels of the lessons learned in the Toronto series. Now he's looking to move out limited but useful players like Cairns and Weimer?
Personally, I'm more frustrated by an owner who signs Yashin to the biggest contract in the history of the NHL and two years later can't afford a contract at the league average. Being willing to sink 250million into buying the Nets doesn't make me feel any better.

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11-10-2003, 01:52 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Well, given that the the ISLES GM said in his press conference this morning that Wiemer is basically gone and that no other moves would be made, I see little reason to believe that you are correct. Although, your point that our GM has a horrible history in terms of deals is a good one.
I hope you are right, I dont think the isles necessarily need to be broken up.There is a strange atmospehere about the team. I am not sure coaching or player changes are necessary. I think maybe moving Milbury out might help change the whole outlook in the Isles organization.

This is an outsiders view, but I think there is ageneral lack of confidence in Milbury and it filters on down.

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Old
11-10-2003, 01:57 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Dale Hunter
I hope you are right, I dont think the isles necessarily need to be broken up.There is a strange atmospehere about the team. I am not sure coaching or player changes are necessary. I think maybe moving Milbury out might help change the whole outlook in the Isles organization.

This is an outsiders view, but I think there is ageneral lack of confidence in Milbury and it filters on down.

Insightful comments, and I'd have to agree.

Not like having a guy like Darcy Reiger around, eh? The Isles should have promoted him while he was still in the organization. He is one of the most underrated GMs in hockey.

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11-10-2003, 04:11 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nillson2Berge2Weinie
Oh friggin spare me, Weimer has done zilch on the Isle and just cause he's one tough SOB when he wants to be which is rarely we are to keep him and keep Weinhandle a young hungry kid in the minors. How about this, you make no sense....
How about this: Trottier had more intelligent comments today than you've had the entire time you've been posting at HF.

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11-10-2003, 04:24 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nillson2Berge2Weinie
2 things

*That's not quite an astitute revelation for Trotts is a wonderful poster who always make's valid posts but I don't understand the panic button needing to be pushed over the loss of an under-achieving third liner who is way over-payed.
*
You may not agree with Trottier but that doesn't give you the right to insult him. Besides, he is somebody that has earned a lot of respect here. In contrast, most posters think you are pretty childish.

Anway, back to the topic at hand. Trottier's concerns are perfectly valid. After finally seeing the team become competitive again, the notion that the Isles might start cutting veterans because of salary concerns is quite frustrating.

And, yeah, Wiemer is a third-liner who under achieves. But, he also plays a valuable role and the Isles paid a stiff price to get him. Besides, even if you don't like Wiemer, it is hard to feel good about our GM's typical low-class dramatics in getting rid of another player.

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11-10-2003, 04:38 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost of Dale Hunter
Why, because MM has such a long and prolific history of NOT making stupid deals that come back to haunt the team?

It sounds to me like a firesale is brewing and you islander fans will be underwhelmed witht the returns.

I posted this several days ago but will gladly post it again.

1.last summer when the the press printed one article after another that the nyi were looking to slash Peca,Hamrlik and/or Parrish's salary,the isles lost 2,000 season tix buyers.Going from roughly 11,000 to 9,000 for their 16,000 seat arena.

2.NY press says Wang made a formal bid between $200m-$250m on the NJ Nets about 2-3 weeks ago.


3.Wang has been wooing LI pols and the NY Govenor for months,trying to convince them that if they'll aid him financially with his new sports complex/development deal to be built on Nassau county owned land,that LI sports fans will support both the Isles and a pro basketball team.

4.In an effort to boost attendance,the isles website has announced several new tix price specials.I predicted on this board last week, that the isles would be offering up special tix offers to fill those empty seats,lure fans back.It's kind of hard for Wang to convince the local pols about the fans support when he's got 4,000 empty seats.Thurs Isles/Habs game is the first special.Buy 1 tix a few hrs before the game and get a 2nd tix free.

5.NYI tix buyers responded to the last big salary slashing in 1999 by staying home.Isles were drawing 3,000-5,000 fans a night when Wang bought the isles.there's a huge difference for tix buyers between dumping star players like Peca and Hamrlik and dumping a gritty 12 goals a yr 3rd liner like Weimer.Isles can spin the Weimer move as getting playing time for youngsters.There's no spin they can put on moving Peca or Hamrlik or another big name player and as the tix specials are showing,the isles want those seats filled,not more fans watching at home.

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