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just a thought?

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Old
11-10-2003, 10:50 AM
  #1
lindros88
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just a thought?

is anybody else getting feed up with looking at players that the flames had and gave up on that are looking like there gonna be good players.

I don't wanna to sound like I'm bringing down the flames organization but I look at these players that we just gave away pretty much.

like fata this season on pace for 44 goals
st.lous is playing awesome
giguare

I kno this has been broughten up before but kno that fata is looking like he wont turn out to be a first round bust I get sick of seeing flames prospects turn into what the flames hoped but for another team

anyways I want to hear what you think

 
Old
11-10-2003, 01:34 PM
  #2
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Happens to every team. There's not one team out there that doesn't have some completely boneheaded move to lament.

For example Ottawa once dealt Pavol Demitra for Christer Olsson (out of the league.) OUCH. Happens to everybody.

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Old
11-10-2003, 01:50 PM
  #3
Bicycle Repairman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindros88
I kno this has been broughten up before but kno that fata is looking like he wont turn out to be a first round bust I get sick of seeing flames prospects turn into what the flames hoped but for another team
Oh cry me the Allegheny, Monongahela and Ohio Rivers. The only reason Rico Fata is still in the NHL is because he has a small, flightless bird on his jersey. Eleven points and a -6 plus/minus is hardly a harbinger of budding superstar status.

Fata is a player that, career-to-date, has been in more doghouses than The Littlest Hobo. Craig Button set the little pooch loose because there was no way the Flames were going to pay the $875,000 that his contract at the time commanded for a fourth-liner.

Every dog has his day, and Fata's is fifteen minutes long.

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Old
11-10-2003, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Oh cry me the Allegheny, Monongahela and Ohio Rivers. The only reason Rico Fata is still in the NHL is because he has a small, flightless bird on his jersey. Eleven points and a -6 plus/minus is hardly a harbinger of budding superstar status.

Fata is a player that, career-to-date, has been in more doghouses than The Littlest Hobo. Craig Button set the little pooch loose because there was no way the Flames were going to pay the $875,000 that his contract at the time commanded for a fourth-liner.

Every dog has his day, and Fata's is fifteen minutes long.
You have so much good to say when you're not trolling. You should keep it up.

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Old
11-11-2003, 04:26 AM
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Badger Bob
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You have so much good to say when you're not trolling. You should keep it up.
BR's observation on Fata was pretty much spot-on.

Let's see where this thread goes, but this topic has been beaten to death. If it weren't for the win/loss record, nobody would be bringing this up yet again.

St. Louis
Fata
Giguere

It's interesting that these were the names thrown out, as all were given chances in Calgary. St. Louis was put in the wrong role (on a checking line) by the coaching staff, at the time. He was left flopping in the breeze after Al Coates & Brian Sutter were sacked. The explanation that BR gave on Fata was about the way it happened. Giguere, himself, admitted that he'd been given an opportunity in Calgary. (The Ducks had the presense of mind to hire Francois Allaire.)

Anybody care to lament the departure of Rob Niedermayer? He was as much as run out of town, and was THE lightning rod on this board last year. His performance in the playoffs, for Anaheim, should speak for itself.

Here's a challenge: if you're going to question any transaction (a trade, signing, waiver, etc.), attempt to debate it when, or immediately after, it happens. Hindsight is 20/20. St. Louis, Fata & Giguere are gone. Live with it.

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11-11-2003, 02:47 PM
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I kno this thread was gonna get beat up I was just thinking about how some of our former players blossem after they leave calgary and I was trying to make examlpes of it.

 
Old
11-12-2003, 03:34 AM
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Badger Bob
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Oh, and Ronald Petrovicky now has 5 goals for the Thrashers. More than Jarome Iginla.

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Old
11-13-2003, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Badger Bob
Oh, and Ronald Petrovicky now has 5 goals for the Thrashers. More than Jarome Iginla.


It's true every team has guys they wish they could get back but I question the Flames commitment. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (scouts, flying around the world to see propects, farm systems, psychological testing, etc.) on these kids yet if they don't pan out in a couple of years they ship them out for next to nothing.

The two biggest problems I see: the Flames are always saying they don't want to rush a player yet after three years they give up on them.
( I know contracts play a factor), but these guys are drafted at 18 and look at most players in the NHL and they don't start establishing themselves until they are in their mid 20's(23-25), that's 5 years minimum from junior and 5 years from the time most of them end up in the pros. That is the same in everyday life. I am more competent at my job now then I was 10 years ago.

The second is the Flames philosophy to play solid defence with very little creativity offensively ends up smothering talented offensive players to death. Guys who can create offensively need to be given the opportunity to use their genious, ie: Savard, St. Louis, Saprykin, Cassells, and others.
This goes all the way back to the Makarov days but I don't want to dig for fossils on this expedition.
Hell if a player's defensive liabilities are in question then stick him with players like Gelinas and Yelle, solid 2 way players with hands. In the past, talented forwards with defeinsive liabilities would end up playing with guys like Wiemer and Nichol and others who were solid defensive players but couldn't handle a decent pass with their hands of stone.
Imagine if guys like Kovalchuk had to play defense? What if Gretz would have had to think about hanging in the neutral zone to trap? Do, or did, people pay to see Lemieux hang back and pick up the third man into the Penguins zone? No. Defense may win games but it's obvious the Flames need more than wins to get fans back in the seats. They are playing .500 hockey early on and fans are still not showing up and the biggest reason I can think of is the lack of excitement. Now if they can play at home like they did in Chicago last night more fans might hit the seats.

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11-13-2003, 08:20 AM
  #9
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Winning will certainly bring more fans in (not that it's a massive issue, plenty of teams are doing worse at the gate.)

But I wouldn't count be close to .500 13 games into the season as "winning".

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11-13-2003, 08:45 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Winning will certainly bring more fans in (not that it's a massive issue, plenty of teams are doing worse at the gate.)

But I wouldn't count be close to .500 13 games into the season as "winning".

being 13-2-2 a couple of seasons back didn't bring fans into the Saddledome either. When fans are spending thousands of dollars a year on season's tickets most want to be entertained and not by dancers, give aways and such. They want an entertaining product on the ice. Look at Jersey. Winning team + boring hockey = no fans.

Another way to get more fans in the building would be lower ticket prices but you won't see that happening anytime soon.

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Old
11-13-2003, 10:48 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Zhackpot
being 13-2-2 a couple of seasons back didn't bring fans into the Saddledome either. When fans are spending thousands of dollars a year on season's tickets most want to be entertained and not by dancers, give aways and such. They want an entertaining product on the ice. Look at Jersey. Winning team + boring hockey = no fans.

Another way to get more fans in the building would be lower ticket prices but you won't see that happening anytime soon.
I disagree, entertainment has less to do with it than winning. Fans won't come see a streak, they want consistent results. We haven't had that in years so you can't judge the recent gate results.

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11-13-2003, 01:18 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
I disagree, entertainment has less to do with it than winning. Fans won't come see a streak, they want consistent results. We haven't had that in years so you can't judge the recent gate results.
Personally I think the team can be pretty entertaining, but I agree FDW that consistant winning will bring the fans back. It's not like our ticket prices can really go any lower, we already have the 3rd lowest Av. ticket price in the league (Edmonton is 2nd lowest and TB is the lowest)

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