HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Ryder??

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-13-2006, 08:48 AM
  #1
Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Saskatoon, Sask.
Posts: 2,030
vCash: 500
Ryder??

So what are everybody’s thoughts on Ryder?

Samsonov, Kovalev, Higgins, Ryder. We now have 3 out of 4 top six wingers that are quite poor defensively. I can't imagine that Gainey would be too happy with this, and Ryder is the obvious one to go.

His value around the league is pretty high, and in a package with Souray and/or Aebi would probably fetch a decent player.

Will he stay or will he go? Would you like to see him stay or go?

Personally I wouldn’t be too sad to see him leave, assuming he'll fetch a decent return. He’s been a good player for us, but given his defensive shortcomings and the youngsters ready to move up shortly, I don’t see him as a long term player on the top 6. His contract status coupled with the fact that Gainey’s got some more moves to make, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him moved.

Habber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 08:50 AM
  #2
BigTimer*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
He shouldn't go anywhere. We don't have any youngsters ready to take his place so as of now, it would be ******** to move him.

BigTimer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 08:53 AM
  #3
Malakhov
Registered User
 
Malakhov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,431
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Malakhov
No way Ryder is traded unless in a package for a franchise 1st line center.

Malakhov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:01 AM
  #4
Freaky Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Freaky Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New-Brunswick
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
No way Ryder is traded unless in a package for a franchise 1st line center.
Dunno man...I kind of agree with the first post. Sure Ryder scores many goal, but his overall game is so poor. He's not good to make plays and he's poor defensively. Also, he will not come cheap like last year.

I also think that his value is quite high so I would shop him around. And I do believe that we have the yound players to replace him. You have 3 sure bet in Samsonov, Kovalev and Higgins and I'm sure that one of Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Perezhogin and Grabovski can play on the top 2 line...

Freaky Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:06 AM
  #5
DerekT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 562
vCash: 500
We need Ryder, and we won't get anything as good as him right now if we trade him straight up.

DerekT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:08 AM
  #6
Malakhov
Registered User
 
Malakhov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,431
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Malakhov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Dunno man...I kind of agree with the first post. Sure Ryder scores many goal, but his overall game is so poor. He's not good to make plays and he's poor defensively. Also, he will not come cheap like last year.
Most pure goals scorer are that way. Ryder is young, he has proved he is a very good goal scorer, I say with time he'll get better defensively, especially with Carbo and Muller behind the bench now.

Malakhov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:12 AM
  #7
JMMR
Registered User
 
JMMR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to JMMR Send a message via Yahoo to JMMR
I think Ryder deserves another year because I guess he played most of this year injured. FOr his first two NHL seasons his goal production has been great.
I would love to see Kostitsyn or Perezhogin step up and put up the numbers he has.
But as mony posters would agree it is better to bet on someone who has done something a few times than bet on a player who has never done it.

JMMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:16 AM
  #8
Freaky Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Freaky Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New-Brunswick
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMR View Post
I think Ryder deserves another year because I guess he played most of this year injured. FOr his first two NHL seasons his goal production has been great.
I would love to see Kostitsyn or Perezhogin step up and put up the numbers he has.
But as mony posters would agree it is better to bet on someone who has done something a few times than bet on a player who has never done it.
Yeah, we have to think about which Ryder we will have this year. He had one good and one bad season(as a player). If he can be good again, he would be harder to trade.

When I think about it, I would be ready to ginve him one last chance...

Freaky Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:16 AM
  #9
BigTimer*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Most pure goals scorer are that way. Ryder is young, he has proved he is a very good goal scorer, I say with time he'll get better defensively, especially with Carbo and Muller behind the bench now.
Good point.

Also to consider is that he'll probably get better when the insides of his vertabrae are no longer seeping out and pressing against his spinal nerves. Just felt like sharing what a discal hernia is.

BigTimer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:21 AM
  #10
DerekT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Yeah, we have to think about which Ryder we will have this year. He had one good and one bad season(as a player). If he can be good again, he would be harder to trade.

When I think about it, I would be ready to ginve him one last chance...
If a bad year means 30 goals, I hope he's bad again.

DerekT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:23 AM
  #11
Malakhov
Registered User
 
Malakhov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,431
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Malakhov
Only in Montreal that scoring 30 goals is a bad season...

And then the fans wonder why we don't attract a lot of UFAs

Malakhov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:25 AM
  #12
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
im not to worried about it . remember huet huet huet helps . we do got one fast team

samsanov is faster than either zed or bulis

and ill argue johnson is faster than both zed of bulis . also i wouldnt hesitate to use johnson on the second line at all if you needed more defense in certian games and the guy is very very solid defensivly

if things get out of hand defensivly settle it down just throw

sammy saku kovy
higgins ribs johnson
begin plekanac ryder
murray bonk downey


plently of balanced defense there on all 3 lines


Last edited by Artyukhin*: 07-13-2006 at 09:34 AM.
Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:30 AM
  #13
silver cup
Registered User
 
silver cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lasalle,Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Only in Montreal that scoring 30 goals is a bad season...

And then the fans wonder why we don't attract a lot of UFAs
It's so true...only in Montreal can you draft a player, develop him into a 30 goal scorer and now fans want him to be traded. I don't get it.

silver cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:31 AM
  #14
Roots73
Registered User
 
Roots73's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 285
vCash: 500
Being a native Newfie, I wouldn't wan't to see Ryder go. But in today's NHL I don't expect him to retire as a Hab either. I was a Hab fan long before Ryder showed up and if he left I wouldn't dare trade alligences to any other team.

That said, I would be surprised if Gainey felt compelled to trade him right now. It would have to be a damn good offer if it were to happen. Even though he's in his mid 20's, he still has lots of time to develop his defensive game under Carbo's tutelage like was said earlier.

Keep in mind that the league is trying to open up the game so we need players with Ryder's traits to stay competitive. He is a natural goal scorer with a good shot and can finish the play. Give him another year or two to become more well rounded and lets see how he does before we pull the trigger.

Roots73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:36 AM
  #15
bayrider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Anyone remember Ryder's performance in Game 6 vs the Canes (aside from coughing up the puck in OT)??

He played his heart out, banged bodies, created chances, and played a well rounded defensive game out there. I swear, if he could play like he did in game 6, he could have 35+ goals and 70+ points easily, and be our franchise forward.

I think its too early to flip Ryder. I mean, he's only played 2 seasons, and got better offensively in the 2nd. With Carbo and Muller behind the bench, and from what we saw in game 6, I'm sure they see the potential in Ryder. Muller and Carbo will mold him to be a better all around player.

bayrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:36 AM
  #16
Orange
Registered User
 
Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,154
vCash: 500
Why is Ryder getting such a bad rap for his defensive play ? I'll concede that he's made some pretty big blunders last year but I also recall that he was pretty reliable in his rookie season. If memory serves me right, he was reliable in Hamilton too. That's not even considering that Ryder could develop further into a complete player under Carbo's system. I think last year's very visible defensive blunders are being blown out of proportion. Ryder is definately not a stalwart defensive stud, but doesn't have such a bad history either. At least he backchecks. I trust Carbo can work with that.

Edit : Heh ! Was a few seconds too late to quote you Bayrider ! =D

Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 09:42 AM
  #17
Kafka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber View Post
So what are everybody’s thoughts on Ryder?

Samsonov, Kovalev, Higgins, Ryder. We now have 3 out of 4 top six wingers that are quite poor defensively. I can't imagine that Gainey would be too happy with this, and Ryder is the obvious one to go.

His value around the league is pretty high, and in a package with Souray and/or Aebi would probably fetch a decent player.

Will he stay or will he go? Would you like to see him stay or go?

Personally I wouldn’t be too sad to see him leave, assuming he'll fetch a decent return. He’s been a good player for us, but given his defensive shortcomings and the youngsters ready to move up shortly, I don’t see him as a long term player on the top 6. His contract status coupled with the fact that Gainey’s got some more moves to make, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him moved.
I said it in a thread concerning Ryder going to arbitration: Garbage goals scorers will leave the club....... first Dagenais, then Zednik..... and sooner or later Ryder. His value wont increase, and Gainey knows it (I hope he does). If Perezhogin, Grabovski or Kostitsyn's play ask for more ice time, the guy who will see his icetime going down is Ryder.

Kafka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:05 AM
  #18
BadHabit
Registered User
 
BadHabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
I said it in a thread concerning Ryder going to arbitration: Garbage goals scorers will leave the club....... first Dagenais, then Zednik..... and sooner or later Ryder. His value wont increase, and Gainey knows it (I hope he does). If Perezhogin, Grabovski or Kostitsyn's play ask for more ice time, the guy who will see his icetime going down is Ryder.
Personally, I don't care if you look like Kovalev or if you park yourself in front of the net and wack away at rebounds while scoring 30 goals. 30 goals is 30 goals and we have a major problem putting the puck in the net in case no one noticed. To trade away our top goal scorer would be ridiculous unless what we get back is a true 1st liner. Ryder is a clutch player, a finisher and plays less ice time than most other people on the team.

Everyone is all over Ryder for his defensive play but they seem to forget that he has only played in the NHL for 2 seasons! Give him a break... he is a forward and not a defensemen. Defensive skills will come with time, it is not something you learn overnight. In fact, I'll bet that Souray made more defensive mistakes that caused goals last year than Ryder did. Everyone also keeps bringing up the OT goal in the Carolina series... it was a bad change! Sure he coughed the puck up but where was the rest of the team?? If I remember correctly I think he was inside the Carolina blue line or close to it when it happened... it's not like he was inside our blue line.

Lastly, he played most of last year with an injury and still had a great year. Maybe he was a bit slower and didn't play as rough as he could with his size, but there was a reason for that. I'm not saying he's the fastest skater on the team, but the guy plays with heart and determination - he played through his injury and put points on the board when it mattered.

This guy is a young talent and could become a really great, well rounded player and in my opinion it would be devastating to trade him away. We can't have it all now guys, Gainey is building a winning team and that doesn't happen in one or two years. He is trying to become a force to be reckoned with for 4 or 5 years in a row, not trade and spend for one cup and then be out of the playoffs the next year. The Canadiens deserve to bring respect back to their name, and one way of doing that is to win. I am confident that this team can do that and become one of the premier teams in the league with the right moves - and Gainey is well on his way of accomplishing this.

Thom

BadHabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:08 AM
  #19
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 34,050
vCash: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
He shouldn't go anywhere. We don't have any youngsters ready to take his place so as of now, it would be ******** to move him.

I disagree with you,I think Plecks,Higgins and Perezhogin can do his job, 30 goals on the top line

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:11 AM
  #20
Sweaty17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Yeah, we have to think about which Ryder we will have this year. He had one good and one bad season(as a player). If he can be good again, he would be harder to trade.

When I think about it, I would be ready to ginve him one last chance...
One last chance??

When did he use up his first one??

Sweaty17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:15 AM
  #21
wpg_habsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 133
vCash: 500
We can't get rid of Ryder unless we get a good right hand shot in return.

He's the only good right hand shot on the team right now.

wpg_habsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:17 AM
  #22
BigTimer*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I disagree with you,I think Plecks,Higgins and Perezhogin can do his job, 30 goals on the top line
Plek's is a center. Perezhogin did nothing last year to prove he can replace Ryder's goal-scoring... and as for Higgins, lets not forget that him scoring 20-25 goals again is not a given and presents more than enough of a gamble for our top-6. He's a left-winger anyways but what I'm getting at is that we don't need another question mark in our top-6. Let Perezhogin score half as many as Ryder did last year and then we could maybe project him as a 20-25 goal scorer... but to say with a large amount of confidence that he can put up 30 this season is unrealistic.

BigTimer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:19 AM
  #23
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Calif via Montreal
Posts: 11,724
vCash: 500
I agree, but Higgins is not poor defensively...?

tinyzombies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:29 AM
  #24
BadHabit
Registered User
 
BadHabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I disagree with you,I think Plecks,Higgins and Perezhogin can do his job, 30 goals on the top line
And I disagree with you. Plecks, Higgins and Perezhogin while good - have not proved themselves to be in the same league as Ryder yet. I really like Plecks, he is a great centerman with a ton of skill, but we need him in that spot and not on a wing. Higgins had a great half year, but who's to say he was just hot? Are you willing to give up a proven 30 goal scorer to put someone there who MIGHT replicate that? Perezhogin was given time on the top line and other lines but did not produce. He is a good player but he has not proved he has what it takes yet.

A lot of people seem to think that you can throw these rookies into the fray as soon as they turn 19 and expect them to play on the top line, just as good as they played in junior or wheverever they came from. Well boys and girls, the NHL is a completely different beast - only the best of the best get a shot there and unless you are a phenom like Crosby or Ovechkin, it takes a few YEARS to step your game up - if you even have it. Contrary to popular belief, Latendress, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, etc etc are NOT the saviours of this team - YET. They are great talents to be culminated and and developed just like 99% of the others out there. End of story.

Thom

BadHabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2006, 11:37 AM
  #25
Freaky Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Freaky Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New-Brunswick
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweaty17 View Post
One last chance??

When did he use up his first one??
Last season...I'm saying that because his value is probably very high so I think we could get a great asset in a trade centering Ryder...

And he had 30 goals, sure...statwise, it's a great season, but overall, he had a poor season. I saw almost every Habs game so I know what I'm talking about.

He can't make plays, he can't pass the puck, he don't always know what to do with it...it's too bad because he has a good set of hands but he don't always know how to use them.

Freaky Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.