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A few ideas about our 2nd Center

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Old
07-14-2006, 09:16 AM
  #1
knuckles3030
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A few ideas about our 2nd Center

Hello all,

I've been lurking here for a while now, and I had a few ideas last night and wanted to know what you guys though about them.

Plan A: Trade for Robert Lang (it's been discussed before)
Plan B: Give a try to Victor Kozlov
He's big right-handed centerman that is inconsistent but can be quite good. Maybe he can be consistent with fellow russians and Carbo-Muller to light a fire under his ***.

Those are the easy options, but I have a couple trade proposals that are a little more difficult to accomplish:

Trade A: Ryder, Perezhogin and maybe a pick for Simon Gagne
You have to give quality to get quality, so it's not like we're trading Ribs and Souray for Gagne. Some might argue too much, some might argue not enough. Bear in mind that Ryder scored 30 goals with the Habs, one of the lowest scoring teams in the East. It's not a reach for him to score 40 with Forsberg. Gagne was drafted as a center and can perhaps play between Kovy and Sammy.

Trade B: Ryder, Plekanec and a pick for Datsyuk

Again, I think there would be people saying yes and some saying no in both camps. What do you think?

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07-14-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Hello all,

I've been lurking here for a while now, and I had a few ideas last night and wanted to know what you guys though about them.

Plan A: Trade for Robert Lang (it's been discussed before)
Plan B: Give a try to Victor Kozlov
He's big right-handed centerman that is inconsistent but can be quite good. Maybe he can be consistent with fellow russians and Carbo-Muller to light a fire under his ***.

Those are the easy options, but I have a couple trade proposals that are a little more difficult to accomplish:

Trade A: Ryder, Perezhogin and maybe a pick for Simon Gagne
You have to give quality to get quality, so it's not like we're trading Ribs and Souray for Gagne. Some might argue too much, some might argue not enough. Bear in mind that Ryder scored 30 goals with the Habs, one of the lowest scoring teams in the East. It's not a reach for him to score 40 with Forsberg. Gagne was drafted as a center and can perhaps play between Kovy and Sammy.

Trade B: Ryder, Plekanec and a pick for Datsyuk

Again, I think there would be people saying yes and some saying no in both camps. What do you think?
Plan A - If we could get him very, very cheap maybe. High salary, UFA at the end of the year and a slow skater.

Plan B - If we need to light a fire do we really want the guy?

Trade A - You don't trade two emerging young players and a draft pick for a guy that might be able to play center

Trade B - Detroit won't give up Datsyuk for that package.

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07-14-2006, 09:35 AM
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They will keep Ribeiro.

I have a feeling Carbo will make Ribeiro good. I bet you that's the only reason he's still on the team...Because Carbo sees something in him.

Who knows...Carbo was a cocky, high scoring centre comming out of the Q who put up Ribeiro type numbers in his first few NHL years...Mind you, Carbo could skate!

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Old
07-14-2006, 09:44 AM
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What about Higgins ? He's a natural center ... I know he was really good with Koivu on the LW but why not give him a try with Kovalev and Samsonov. He's really a hard worker and he know how to score goals ... Perezhogin could maybe do the job with Saku and Ryder if the team keep the same roster until the season starts. Only a proposition

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07-14-2006, 09:56 AM
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Ribeiro will start the season and if he is not doing the job, Gainey will see to it. BTW higgins will not be back at center.

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07-14-2006, 10:09 AM
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No quick fix

To be a top team again

1) There is no quick fix or soloution to be great.

2) As a result of #1, you don't ever trade away young players. They are the team's future.

#3) You also don't trade away several good under 30 players for one player. Did we not learn anything about the Leclair,Desjardins trade for Rechii. Why would anyone who is a habs fan want to trade Ryder? He is a natural goal scorer and he has only played in the league for 2 years

#4) Do you want to win the Cup or keep fighting to make the playoffs and hopefully win only one round. Keep all the yougn talent. Get rid of most of the older players. This will give the young players lots of ice time. They will miss the playoffs for a few years, will as a result get some good draft picks, and then in about 2010 they can serious contend for the Cup.

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Old
07-14-2006, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
Ribeiro will start the season and if he is not doing the job, Gainey will see to it. BTW higgins will not be back at center.
im not sure about that, i always wanted to see what higgins can do at center...
kovalev is a natural center, samsomov too, i think that we have a lot of option...
but our famous big center is with us... is name is kovalev!!!

samsonov-kovalev-perezhogin
higgins-koivu-ryder
johnson-plekanec-kostitsyn
murray-bonk-bégin

extra : grabo, maybe latendresse

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07-14-2006, 10:21 AM
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As of now, I still think Lindros could do real well in between Sammy and Kovy. He is a shooter while the other two are passers.

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07-14-2006, 10:21 AM
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I know we'll probably play Ribs to start the season. What I'm proposing are alternatives.

Trading away two young players is the price to pay to get another young player in his prime (Gagne or Datsyuk). No way I would give a prospect for Lang. That was never the idea.

We have many good prospects, and they can't all play on our team in the near future because you'd then have a team full of prospects.

Ryder is a good goal-scorer, but you get another good one back in a guy like Gagne or Datsyuk, who are superior players as well, and that's why you have to add a good prospect. Of the many we have, I would rather part with Perez and Pleks than the others.

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07-14-2006, 10:28 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by briste View Post
Plan A - If we could get him very, very cheap maybe. High salary, UFA at the end of the year and a slow skater.

I think Lang can be had for cheap.

Plan B - If we need to light a fire do we really want the guy?

The real question is: is he an upgrade over Ribs? If yes, then it's worth it. If not, then forget him.

Trade A - You don't trade two emerging young players and a draft pick for a guy that might be able to play center

Gagne started his career as a center but was moved to left wing because of an over-abundance of centers in PHI. Two emerging young players is the price to pay for an established star. Even if he can't play center, that would be a good pickup in terms of quality.

Trade B - Detroit won't give up Datsyuk for that package.

Probably not. But I'd be curious and enquire...

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07-14-2006, 10:38 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Plan A: Trade for Robert Lang (it's been discussed before)
It was a Eklundesque rumor but with Bonk on the roster, there is no room for a big and slow centerman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Plan B: Give a try to Victor Kozlov
I also tought it was a possibility, but with Johnson in, and the signing of Samsonov, I don't think Kozlov will be brought in... I guess Kozlov was a E or F plan if Samsonov couldn't join the team and if Gainey couldn't land Johnson. Something that has not being discuss a lot: Johnson played center several times last season and took over 200 faceoffs... being right handed, Gainey now has in his roster a right handed guy that can win faceoffs. Gainey wanted a right handed guy to take face offs: he know has it. The guy doesn't need to play center every game. Ribeiro will have to deliver this season, so he will play like a 2nd/1st line center or he won't come back with the team.

Therefore, adding Kozlov wouldn't be IMO a good move.


Last edited by Kafka: 07-14-2006 at 01:59 PM.
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Old
07-14-2006, 11:12 AM
  #12
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I think more realisticaly the options would be the following in order...

1) Ribeiro
2) Plekanek
3) Higgins or Johson
4) Chipchura or Grabovski
5) Trade

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07-14-2006, 11:57 AM
  #13
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As of now, I still think Lindros could do real well in between Sammy and Kovy. He is a shooter while the other two are passers.
2. His mom will not let him out of the province
3. The training staff doesn’t have enough Kleenex for his helmet
4. His dad doesn't want him playing in a foreign country
5. He needs to finish grade 10 english before attempting introduction to french
6. The players would require him to have an ego enema


#1. We don't need a heartless glass giant.

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Old
07-14-2006, 12:32 PM
  #14
zednik20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Hello all,

I've been lurking here for a while now, and I had a few ideas last night and wanted to know what you guys though about them.

Plan A: Trade for Robert Lang (it's been discussed before)
Plan B: Give a try to Victor Kozlov
He's big right-handed centerman that is inconsistent but can be quite good. Maybe he can be consistent with fellow russians and Carbo-Muller to light a fire under his ***.

Those are the easy options, but I have a couple trade proposals that are a little more difficult to accomplish:

Trade A: Ryder, Perezhogin and maybe a pick for Simon Gagne
You have to give quality to get quality, so it's not like we're trading Ribs and Souray for Gagne. Some might argue too much, some might argue not enough. Bear in mind that Ryder scored 30 goals with the Habs, one of the lowest scoring teams in the East. It's not a reach for him to score 40 with Forsberg. Gagne was drafted as a center and can perhaps play between Kovy and Sammy.

Trade B: Ryder, Plekanec and a pick for Datsyuk

Again, I think there would be people saying yes and some saying no in both camps. What do you think?
Gagné is not a center....

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Old
07-14-2006, 12:34 PM
  #15
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For the time being Carbonneau is convinced that Ribeiro will be the second line center. It will be some time before Gainey even considers trading Ribeiro. If he wanted Lang, he would have had him by now because Detroit wouldn't expect the world in exchange. This may seem like bad news for many of us because of the perceived (actually, real) shortcomings of Ribeiro, but we don't have a choice in the matter. Let's just hope for the best in the interests of the team.

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Old
07-14-2006, 01:08 PM
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Ribeiro is the 2nd line center, stop this man...

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Old
07-14-2006, 01:18 PM
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Ribeiro is the 2nd line center, stop this man...
la tu vas te calmer.... et reste poli

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07-14-2006, 01:27 PM
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Ribeiro is the 2nd line center, stop this man...
That's right! Ribs is the man and that's all there is to it. If you don't like it, go cheer for the Leafs or something.

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07-14-2006, 01:46 PM
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the fact that every team we compete against wants us to keep ribs, SHOULD, be an indication to our riberio fans that the discontent he has garnered among some Hab fans is grounded in reality.


before you rib fans flame me....if and I mean IF Carbo & Co. can turn him around I'll be the first to eat some crow. I've been waiting for him to step up (no stats please) thru 3 or is it 4 coachs.

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07-14-2006, 01:54 PM
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That's right! Ribs is the man and that's all there is to it. If you don't like it, go cheer for the Leafs or something.
That's a very mature answer! Congratulations!

Because Ribs is currently the second center, we should stop discussing if we can improve that position? If we can't might as well stop reading and posting on these boards. If you don't like to discuss alternatives, don't read these threads.

I submitted a few ideas I had and wanted to know what people think. I think it's perfectly legitimate.

It's not because Carbo said so, or because Gainey said so, that we can't discuss our ideas about improving this team.

'nuff said

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07-14-2006, 02:01 PM
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Ribeiro is the 2nd line center, stop this man...
And Bonk is our fourth center, and the sky is blue and the earth is round. And everything is final and nothing can be changed in this world. No, rather, we don't want to change anything because we can't change anything, so we should just climb down into our little hole and wait for existence to cease.

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07-14-2006, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
And Bonk is our fourth center, and the sky is blue and the earth is round. And everything is final and nothing can be changed in this world. No, rather, we don't want to change anything because we can't change anything, so we should just climb down into our little hole and wait for existence to cease.
pretty funny, but Chfan is right... Ribeiro's gonna be our 2nd line center, and we can talk as much as we want, I don't think Gainey goes on HFboards to have everybody's opinions... Ribeiro's gonna be between Sammy and Kovy, that's it... and I think he's gonna oerform quite well... in fact he doesn't have any choice loll

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07-14-2006, 02:37 PM
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Something that has not being discuss a lot: Johnson played center several times last season and took over 200 faceoffs... being right handed, Gainey now has in his roster a right handed guy that can win faceoffs. Gainey wanted a right handed guy to take face offs: he know has it.
Johnson only took a fraction of Coyotes faceoffs last season.

Ricci, Scatchard, Reinprecht, Comrie, Sanderson, Devereaux, even Kvasha took more.

Reason is hes not particularly good at draws. He had success rate of 44.4% which is about same as Ribeiro.

--

Barring a trade, I'd give that job to Plekanec.

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07-14-2006, 03:32 PM
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Johnson only took a fraction of Coyotes faceoffs last season.

Ricci, Scatchard, Reinprecht, Comrie, Sanderson, Devereaux, even Kvasha took more.

Reason is hes not particularly good at draws. He had success rate of 44.4% which is about same as Ribeiro.

--

Barring a trade, I'd give that job to Plekanec.
The point of having a right handed center is to have a guy, who shoots with a right handed stick, taking faceoffs has a right handed guy... not playing on the 2nd line full time at center. It's not about winning faceoffs, its about passing the puck to the right player when you win a faceoff. On ten faceoffs, Johnson lost one more faceoff than Koivu did... anyway, expect Johnson to be used to take some faceoffs.

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07-14-2006, 04:57 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Hello all,

I've been lurking here for a while now, and I had a few ideas last night and wanted to know what you guys though about them.

Plan A: Trade for Robert Lang (it's been discussed before)
Plan B: Give a try to Victor Kozlov
He's big right-handed centerman that is inconsistent but can be quite good. Maybe he can be consistent with fellow russians and Carbo-Muller to light a fire under his ***.

Those are the easy options, but I have a couple trade proposals that are a little more difficult to accomplish:

Trade A: Ryder, Perezhogin and maybe a pick for Simon Gagne
You have to give quality to get quality, so it's not like we're trading Ribs and Souray for Gagne. Some might argue too much, some might argue not enough. Bear in mind that Ryder scored 30 goals with the Habs, one of the lowest scoring teams in the East. It's not a reach for him to score 40 with Forsberg. Gagne was drafted as a center and can perhaps play between Kovy and Sammy.

Trade B: Ryder, Plekanec and a pick for Datsyuk

Again, I think there would be people saying yes and some saying no in both camps. What do you think?
I think those proposals are a little out of reach. Gagne is not a center. Yes he's played it but it's not his forte. Heck Kovalev has played center also so no need to trade anybody, but like Gagne, it's not where Kovalev is comfortable.

It's going to take a huge overpayment to land Datsyuk. He's Detroit 2nd go to guy now (after Lidstrom).

Personally I still like the idea of Langkow from Calgary( i know not huge) but I don't think it will be as expensive as Datsyuk or Gagne.

Let's face it a 6' 4" 220 lbs fast skating, playmaking, gritty center is on the wish list of just about every team. They just aren't out there.

At this point I think I'd just settle for someone who'd be willing to throw their weight around and has some skill to play on the 2nd line. Let Samsonov and Kovalev carry the puck and hopefully get them to start shooting more while the 3rd guy on the line reaks havoc in the corners and front of the net.

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