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Nazarov: 99% of enforcers use steroids

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Old
07-17-2006, 07:24 PM
  #26
IranCondraAffair
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Although Nazarov was probably using hyperbole when he said 99% of enforcers use steroids, I'm pretty sure the percentage is probably very high.

It's also probably fair to say that around half of NHL players use some form of banned substances, let's not forget how stringent the regulations are for some substances. Jose Theodore got tossed from teh Olympics for using propecia....


The NHL needs more transperancy, more testing, and more substantial punishments. A 24 hour notice, a random lottery during the season and playoffs, and a complete blood workup every year for all 600+ players so there's no "misunderstandings" later in the year when a player is caught. If the NHL is worried about a black eye, a 6 month grace period and complete testing before the rules go into effect will ensure that no one can complain that they were not aware they were taking a banned substance. If players complain they are testing positive because their favorite supplement has some banned ingrediants but they still need to take them, a simple seminar and approval listing of alternatives will both help the athletes become aware of what they're putting in their bodies and what the alternatives are.


It's not terribly difficult to discourage substance abuse, it's just expensive and requires a level of owner comitment that is not currently present. It will take more guys like Nazarov coming foward before something good will come of this.

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07-17-2006, 10:52 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
For foture reference, that's h-o-l-e.

Have you also considered that during the process of getting a team for the Worlds, the players are also asked "Are you on any kind of "medication" right now that would prevent you from participating?"? Besides steroid use would benefit most during off season so any usage wouldn't show 6 months later.
For future reference, thats f-u-t-u-r-e. (See I can point out meaningless spelling mistakes too)

As for your post, the time that would most benefit the players would be at the end of the season when they are wearing down and losing significant muscle mass. Coincidently this would be when the testing is being done for the world championships. Usually many of the best players not in the playoffs opt to play in these world championships, and low and behold, no positive tests. So is it just the crappy players that are taking these substances? Or might this entire issue be blown out of proportion. Listen, I`m not saying that the NHL`s testing policy is perfect, since it can certainly be improved, all I`m saying is that there really is no proof for these accusaitions.

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07-17-2006, 11:28 PM
  #28
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Old
07-18-2006, 12:24 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NataSatan666 View Post
the NHL drags it's heels and we watch the Brian Fogarty's and the John Kordic's DIE from it.
Both Kordic and Fogarty were drug addicts and alcoholics. Fogarty drank himself to death and Kordic died of a cocaine overdose and took on 9 cops as he was dying. They didn't die from performance enhancing supplements.

I don't believe for one second that the NHL has a steroid problem. I won't say there are zero players using them, but to say as many as 1/3 of NHLers are using, without any substantial evidence, is bull****.

I do realize Dick Pound doesn't just include steroids in his shot-in-the-dark assessment, but lets all realize that according to Dick Pound, Red Bull is a performance enhancing substance. According to Dick Pound, drinking a can of Full Throttle before a game is being on drugs.

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07-18-2006, 12:47 AM
  #30
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It sounds like he is making an excuse for why he got his *** handed to him nightly.

It also sounds like "performance-enhancers" don't help that much anyways... considering enforcers are basically obsolete now.

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07-18-2006, 12:54 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van View Post
Both Kordic and Fogarty were drug addicts and alcoholics. Fogarty drank himself to death and Kordic died of a cocaine overdose and took on 9 cops as he was dying. They didn't die from performance enhancing supplements.

I don't believe for one second that the NHL has a steroid problem. I won't say there are zero players using them, but to say as many as 1/3 of NHLers are using, without any substantial evidence, is bull****.

I do realize Dick Pound doesn't just include steroids in his shot-in-the-dark assessment, but lets all realize that according to Dick Pound, Red Bull is a performance enhancing substance. According to Dick Pound, drinking a can of Full Throttle before a game is being on drugs.

For the record, Kordic was a heavy steroid user and he himself claimed that a lot of players in the NHL were using steroids at the time.

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07-18-2006, 02:25 AM
  #32
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Scott Parker had some pretty hardcore 'roid rage last season.

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07-18-2006, 04:20 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van View Post
Both Kordic and Fogarty were drug addicts and alcoholics. Fogarty drank himself to death and Kordic died of a cocaine overdose and took on 9 cops as he was dying. They didn't die from performance enhancing supplements.
You have access to the coronary reports?

Kordic was a self-admitted 'roid user, you can't possibly know what effect that stuff had in his health problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van View Post
I don't believe for one second that the NHL has a steroid problem. .
Of course you don't believe it, you come from the Don Cherry school of Ostrich where no problem exists as long as you don't go looking for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van View Post
I won't say there are zero players using them, but to say as many as 1/3 of NHLers are using, without any substantial evidence, is bull****..
UP to 1/3 of NHLer and you can't prove Pound wrong as long as NHL chooses to use anti-doping system which really isn't an anti-doping system.

Maybe you should pay more attention before defending Daly, Saskin & co without having the slightest clue about the issue?

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07-18-2006, 04:23 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van View Post
Both Kordic and Fogarty were drug addicts and alcoholics. Fogarty drank himself to death and Kordic died of a cocaine overdose and took on 9 cops as he was dying. They didn't die from performance enhancing supplements.

I don't believe for one second that the NHL has a steroid problem. I won't say there are zero players using them, but to say as many as 1/3 of NHLers are using, without any substantial evidence, is bull****.

I do realize Dick Pound doesn't just include steroids in his shot-in-the-dark assessment, but lets all realize that according to Dick Pound, Red Bull is a performance enhancing substance. According to Dick Pound, drinking a can of Full Throttle before a game is being on drugs.
It's seems strange that most other major sports in the world have some sort of performance enhancing drug problem, yet hockey fans feel that the NHL is somehow different. Why would that be the case? It isn't.

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07-18-2006, 04:29 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
It's seems strange that most other major sports in the world have some sort of performance enhancing drug problem, yet hockey fans feel that the NHL is somehow different. Why would that be the case? It isn't.
It's because of Don Cherry and the 'good ol' canadian boys' who become big & strong by doing farm work in Viking, Alberta, not by doing drugs like kids in U.S.

People are so naive that it's not even funny, I've heard claims like 'drugs don't help hockey players', 'there's no point doing stereoids in NHL' etc.

People need to wake up, we're talking about a multibillion $ sport here where top players get paid several million dollars every season. Drugs are part of EVERY other top sport, NHL and hockey are no exceptions. People who think so are naive fools.

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07-18-2006, 04:49 AM
  #36
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Jesus, even a small town gym with weights will have its share of roiders. Why would the NHL be any different.. especially as the league is doing just about nothing to stop doping?

And that's just speaking of mass building substances. Then there's the multitude of stamina enhancers too.

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07-18-2006, 05:16 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van View Post
I don't believe for one second that the NHL has a steroid problem.


But thinking about it, you're right.
The NHL probably has a problem with plenty more products than simple steroids.

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07-18-2006, 06:21 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
UP to 1/3 of NHLer and you can't prove Pound wrong as long as NHL chooses to use anti-doping system which really isn't an anti-doping system.

Maybe you should pay more attention before defending Daly, Saskin & co without having the slightest clue about the issue?
You can`t prove that Pound is right either, and that is the problem with these acqusations. I don`t know how you can honestly say that those of us who do not think there is a huge steroid problem don`t have the slightest clue when you are basing your opinion on a few baseless claims. I don`t know about you but I have a degree in Kinesiology and will be starting my Masters in it in the fall and I am of the opinion that most steroids would not be as beneficial to hockey players as it is to some other athletes simply because the nature of the sport. Saying that the NHL has a steroid problem just because there is one in other sports is rediculous because the sports are so different. The only steroids that would have real beneficial results to hockey players would be those that help regenerate muscle as the season is winding down and into the playoffs. These would show up in the World Championship testing.

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07-18-2006, 06:34 AM
  #39
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1) We have no concrete proof one way or another thanks to NHL's lack of anti-doping testing

2) All other sports have banned substances, hockey is no exception

3) There are plenty of banned substances that help hockey players, from off-season muscle-mass gainers to on-season ephedrines/EPOs

4) Testing for World Championships happens only after the team is picked, plenty of time to drop the banned stuff and avoid detection

5) Pound made the claim that 'he believes up to 1/3 of NHLers use banned substances'. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest he's wrong, NHL's ridiculous testing results fool only the naivest fanboys.

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07-18-2006, 07:09 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
For future reference, thats f-u-t-u-r-e. (See I can point out meaningless spelling mistakes too)

As for your post, the time that would most benefit the players would be at the end of the season when they are wearing down and losing significant muscle mass. Coincidently this would be when the testing is being done for the world championships. Usually many of the best players not in the playoffs opt to play in these world championships, and low and behold, no positive tests. So is it just the crappy players that are taking these substances? Or might this entire issue be blown out of proportion. Listen, I`m not saying that the NHL`s testing policy is perfect, since it can certainly be improved, all I`m saying is that there really is no proof for these accusaitions.
Except mine was a typo, yours was a grammar mistake evidenced in your latest post and English is suppose to be your first language, not mine.

And no, players aren't tested prior (2-3 weeks before in North America) to the Worlds, it's at the Worlds the tests are taken.

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07-18-2006, 07:31 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
I
People are so naive that it's not even funny, I've heard claims like 'drugs don't help hockey players', 'there's no point doing stereoids in NHL' etc.

People need to wake up, we're talking about a multibillion $ sport here where top players get paid several million dollars every season. Drugs are part of EVERY other top sport, NHL and hockey are no exceptions. People who think so are naive fools.

I agree....there's defenatly a prevelence of steriods in almost any top level sport. It just depends on what kind.

Do people ever not wonder why men are stronger than women?

One of the reason is testosterone builds muscle mass.Now, even female have a bit of testosterone, its just that men have a boatload more of it. Now, take some guy, and give him 4 times as much as an ordinary man. You think he's not going to be stronger?

And don't get me started on the athletes who "heal fast because they're in good shape"

in pro sports, you see guys healing in a few weeks an injury that would take even an ordinary healthy, fit person months.

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07-18-2006, 07:43 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
1) We have no concrete proof one way or another thanks to NHL's lack of anti-doping testing
This is true, and that is why all of these posts are opinion and opinion only.

Quote:
2) All other sports have banned substances, hockey is no exception
See you can`t just generalize between every sport. A sport like baseball is susceptible to a steroid problem because it is such a specialized skill. All a player has to do is work on his swing, once you have the mechanics down you can add bulk and strength all you want and all that will change is the batspeed. Linemen in football don`t really need anything but brute strength, so again you can see why steroids would be used. Cyclists need only to improve their oxygen uptake, so again you can see how performance enhancing supplements would be a problem. Outside of enforcers (who have really the only ones accused of it) a hockey player has to maintain a balance between so many different skills that taking steroids would severely throw off this balance.

Quote:
3) There are plenty of banned substances that help hockey players, from off-season muscle-mass gainers to on-season ephedrines/EPOs
Here we get into the argument of what exactly is a banned substance. It seems most people use "banned substances" and "steroids" interchangeably. I had a professor (of sports supplements ironically) who used to be an elite rower. He used to drink 8 cups of coffee before a race. Should coffee also be bannned? As I stated before, I have a pretty good background in this area and I don`t see many substances being of great benefit for hockey players.

Quote:
4) Testing for World Championships happens only after the team is picked, plenty of time to drop the banned stuff and avoid detection
No actually it doesn`t give plenty of time to drop the banned stuff. Your in over your head in my opinion.

Quote:
5) Pound made the claim that 'he believes up to 1/3 of NHLers use banned substances'. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest he's wrong, NHL's ridiculous testing results fool only the naivest fanboys.
Let me try. I think YOU took steroids. Whats that? You say you didn`t? Well then prove it. See? It doesn`t really work like that does it. Dick Pound`s job is to raise awareness about steroids and other banned substances in sport. If you think his statement was anything more than ploy for more attention you are mistaken.

How can all of you who disagree with me say that I am just burying my head in the ground? There has been absolutely no evidence to support the assertion that there is a steroid problem in the NHL. We are not burying our head in the sand, we are looking at the facts. We are supposed to believe that there is a problem in the NHL juist because some 380 lbs lineman wants to get to 400lbs, or because some DH in the American League wants to see if he can go yard 60 times instead of 40? Give me a break.

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07-18-2006, 07:49 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Except mine was a typo, yours was a grammar mistake evidenced in your latest post and English is suppose to be your first language, not mine.

And no, players aren't tested prior (2-3 weeks before in North America) to the Worlds, it's at the Worlds the tests are taken.
The time between the end of the season and the start of the WCs is simply not enough time to get any serious steroid out of the system. Its really pretty simple.

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07-18-2006, 07:50 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
I agree....there's defenatly a prevelence of steriods in almost any top level sport. It just depends on what kind.

Do people ever not wonder why men are stronger than women?

One of the reason is testosterone builds muscle mass.Now, even female have a bit of testosterone, its just that men have a boatload more of it. Now, take some guy, and give him 4 times as much as an ordinary man. You think he's not going to be stronger?

And don't get me started on the athletes who "heal fast because they're in good shape"

in pro sports, you see guys healing in a few weeks an injury that would take even an ordinary healthy, fit person months.
Problem with excess testosterone is that it is converted to estrogen and can produce male breasts (***** **** as they are called) haha

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07-18-2006, 08:22 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
Let me try. I think YOU took steroids. Whats that? You say you didn`t? Well then prove it. See? It doesn`t really work like that does it. Dick Pound`s job is to raise awareness about steroids and other banned substances in sport. If you think his statement was anything more than ploy for more attention you are mistaken.
Well actually that is how it works until the league stops sweeping the issue under the rug. With proper and systematical testing, you'd see what guys are indeed clean and who're the roiders.

If there are no roiders, systematical testing would affirm this.

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07-18-2006, 08:38 AM
  #46
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See you can`t just generalize between every sport. A sport like baseball is susceptible to a steroid problem because it is such a specialized skill. All a player has to do is work on his swing, once you have the mechanics down you can add bulk and strength all you want and all that will change is the batspeed. Linemen in football don`t really need anything but brute strength, so again you can see why steroids would be used. Cyclists need only to improve their oxygen uptake, so again you can see how performance enhancing supplements would be a problem. Outside of enforcers (who have really the only ones accused of it) a hockey player has to maintain a balance between so many different skills that taking steroids would severely throw off this balance.
What does every NHL player do during the offseason? They train to get stronger, more durable and to have less fat. All of these can be helped by using banned substances. If you seriously claim that only enforcers benefit from either stereoids or banned substances in general, you might consider getting your education fees back. Taking stereoids to help getting rid of extra weight while keeping muscle mass is only going to help you, there's nothing to 'balance'.

It's so easy to claim that only enforcers benefit from banned substances, well it's total BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
Here we get into the argument of what exactly is a banned substance. It seems most people use "banned substances" and "steroids" interchangeably. I had a professor (of sports supplements ironically) who used to be an elite rower. He used to drink 8 cups of coffee before a race. Should coffee also be bannned? As I stated before, I have a pretty good background in this area and I don`t see many substances being of great benefit for hockey players.
Banned substance = WADA's list of banned substances

caffeine = only MONITORED, not BANNED by WADA. So you can drink as much coffee as you want before games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
No actually it doesn`t give plenty of time to drop the banned stuff. Your in over your head in my opinion..
In my opinion you're wrong here. You can do craploads of different banned substances 2 months before test and not get caught. There are stuff that will leave traces in the samples but only an idiot would do that stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
Let me try. I think YOU took steroids. Whats that? You say you didn`t? Well then prove it. See? It doesn`t really work like that does it. Dick Pound`s job is to raise awareness about steroids and other banned substances in sport. If you think his statement was anything more than ploy for more attention you are mistaken.
Well I suggest you don't try to be a lawyer anytime during your professional career.

If you can't see the difference between saying "I believe UP to 1/3 of players are using banned substances" and "I think you TOOK steroids", we might as well drop this argument right now.

Seriously, think for a second how ridiculous your analogy is. Direct personal accusation which needs to be proven vs. a general guess about very vague group which can't be pointed in any way.

Please, try again.

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07-18-2006, 08:39 AM
  #47
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Problem with excess testosterone is that it is converted to estrogen and can produce male breasts (***** **** as they are called) haha
Umm, not entirely true. Excess testosterone is not converted into estrogen. However, male breasts come about because the body tries to maintain an equilibrium, so when you're taking too much testosterone, the male body produces extra estrogen to keep a semblance of hormonal balance in the body. The testosterone isn't converted into estrogen, but it causes excess estrogen in the body.

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07-18-2006, 09:33 AM
  #48
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Umm, not entirely true. Excess testosterone is not converted into estrogen. However, male breasts come about because the body tries to maintain an equilibrium, so when you're taking too much testosterone, the male body produces extra estrogen to keep a semblance of hormonal balance in the body. The testosterone isn't converted into estrogen, but it causes excess estrogen in the body.
Yes actually it is true. You are right about the body trying to keep an equilibrium, but it does this by converting testosterone (and its precursers) to estrogen. I have done a research project on Androstenedione (which is a precurser to steroids) and this is exactly what happens to those who use andro.

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07-18-2006, 09:35 AM
  #49
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I think hockey is much different than football and baseball in two major ways that would deter steroid use. Admittedly, I am not very educated on steroids and other performance enhancers, their benefits, and their drawbacks. I am looking for feedback.

First: From what I understand, the benefits of steroids would not be a help to most of the skaters in the league. The bulk would inhibit the free movement to make the 'nifty' plays. I could understand it for enforcers, but mobility is key in the NHL and bulking up too much could hurt that mobility.

Second: Football and Baseball plays happen for only seconds at a time where the heart-rate elevates short term but then comes back down and is allowed to rest frequently. Heart problems may not be immediately apparent in this type of scenario but devastating down the road. Wouldn't any heart damage due to anything, including drugs, be quickly exposed on 40 second shifts 20 times a game?

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07-18-2006, 09:54 AM
  #50
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Yes actually it is true. You are right about the body trying to keep an equilibrium, but it does this by converting testosterone (and its precursers) to estrogen. I have done a research project on Androstenedione (which is a precurser to steroids) and this is exactly what happens to those who use andro.
It can be converted to estrogen, but it isn't always. Some men have that happen, and this is caused by aromatase in fatty tissue, which not all men produce. But this is all off topic, and really doesn't matter to the context of this thread.

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