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Gomez & Devils heading for a divorce?

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07-20-2006, 02:49 PM
  #51
Brooklyndevil
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Here is your quote:

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There is some speculation that the reason the Rangers are holding pat right now with several million in cap space is to see what shakes down in the wake of a possible Gomez trade.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood. However, your post was kind of vague. And I have to disagree with your assumption that the Devils do not have a strategy. Signing our core players is one and when all the smoke clears, whether it be Gomez, Rafalski or anyone else for that matter is moved, we will have a good chance of defending our division crown. And in 07/08 the Devils will have several million dollars of their own in cap space, that's when there will be a excellent chance for them to challenge for the cup again.

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07-20-2006, 03:04 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
Sorry, I fail to see how giving proven commodities as Elias and White long contracts is a bad idea especially when they at a home discount for the Devils. That's two players - three when you count Lagenbrunner - that we don't EVER have to worry about resigning at least for another five years or so.
You have to remember LIG, in the mind of a few myopics, anything MY team does...Good. Anything NJD does (or even doesn't do, in this case)....BAD.

Lou, so says the "Boy", is foolish for the contracts he gave Elias, White (an "average" defenseman; guess Tyutin is a Norris Trophy candidate in his fairytale world!) and Langenbrunner. He laughs at him.

Yet, based on what? Certainly not accomplishment. Love myopics who punch up at teams above them. That little, itty, bitty factoid always seems to escape the feeble mind of the fanboys. Would be akin to me, an NYI fan, ripping NYR. Silly.

Win something/anything, surpass your competitor...and then, if you must, act like an ***. Criticizing execs, coaches and players who have accomplished more - repeatedly - is embarassing. But predictable, in this case.

Happens every summer. A couple of the same old delusionists get tired of staring at the Jagr poster on the ceiling above the bed and start trying to deconstruct NJD. Because they "know" the CBA better than the guy in NJ.


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07-20-2006, 03:51 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
Here is your quote:



I'm sorry if I misunderstood. However, your post was kind of vague. And I have to disagree with your assumption that the Devils do not have a strategy. Signing our core players is one and when all the smoke clears, whether it be Gomez, Rafalski or anyone else for that matter is moved, we will have a good chance of defending our division crown. And in 07/08 the Devils will have several million dollars of their own in cap space, that's when there will be a excellent chance for them to challenge for the cup again.
Actually I don't quite agree with you but we'll see how things work out. The Devils are about 5-6 players short of a full roster right now and right about at the cap with 2 major players to sign (Gomez and Gionta) and one very valuable young asset (Martin). Securing them like they've secured the others is going to cost a lot and even if Malakhov and Mogilny are off the payroll next spring you have the problem of paying those 3 now and knowing at the same time that after this season you have contracts for 4 players to the tune of about $18 million for the 4 succeeding years. That's a major portion of the cap and you are going to have to hope that it continues to rise and rise significantly in that time period. There is no guarantee that it will. As for keeping the core together that won 3 cups (not sure that all 4 of Brodeur (he has), Elias, White and Langenbrunner have won 3 cups with the Devils) paying them at the same time into what is old age for a lot of players as if the league was still pre-cap is IMO a big mistake. Lou has not held the line on contracts. The Devils seem to be less concerned about player development these days and more concerned with keeping a group together into their mid and late 30's. Sounds an awful lot like some of the teams we've had to root for. In any case time will tell.

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07-20-2006, 04:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Actually I don't quite agree with you but we'll see how things work out. The Devils are about 5-6 players short of a full roster right now and right about at the cap with 2 major players to sign (Gomez and Gionta) and one very valuable young asset (Martin). Securing them like they've secured the others is going to cost a lot and even if Malakhov and Mogilny are off the payroll next spring you have the problem of paying those 3 now and knowing at the same time that after this season you have contracts for 4 players to the tune of about $18 million for the 4 succeeding years. That's a major portion of the cap and you are going to have to hope that it continues to rise and rise significantly in that time period. There is no guarantee that it will. As for keeping the core together that won 3 cups (not sure that all 4 of Brodeur (he has), Elias, White and Langenbrunner have won 3 cups with the Devils) paying them at the same time into what is old age for a lot of players as if the league was still pre-cap is IMO a big mistake. Lou has not held the line on contracts. The Devils seem to be less concerned about player development these days and more concerned with keeping a group together into their mid and late 30's. Sounds an awful lot like some of the teams we've had to root for. In any case time will tell.
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if Malakhov and Mogilny are off the payroll next spring you have the problem of paying those 3 now and knowing at the same time that after this season you have contracts for 4 players to the tune of about $18 million for the 4 succeeding years. That's a major portion of the cap.
Now you're reaching. $18 million for 4 core players in their late twenties and early thirties is pretty darn good in this cap world. And I also believe this current CBA expires in 4 more years....I guess Lou doesn't know what he's doing.

And when the Rangers actually have some core players that help them win cups, then maybe you will appreciate long term contracts. Let's see in several years if you're so against these deals when Lundqvist, Prucha or Staal reach RFA/UFA status. We will see.


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07-20-2006, 04:17 PM
  #55
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As a Ranger fan, I can pretty confidently say the only clear mistakes Lou made were the M&M&M contracts.

Other than that, everything he's done has been defensible, in my view. Now, that doesn't mean something like the Elias deal might turn a bit sour if say, by the 6th year of the deal, Elias is a shell of his former self and Lou can't even send him to the minors or waive him. But it also might work out extrodinarily well.

Every move has risk, so merely saying, "This move is risky for reasons A,B,C" is not thoughtful analysis.

The key question is: Was the decision rational and defensible? If there answer is yes, than a GM has done his job.

I think Lou's decision to lock Elias up to that deal was defensible.

I also see the Rangers' decision not to go hog-wild and offer Elias 8.8 per year plus the no-movement clause as defensible as well.

Everyone did the right thing here.

Oh yeah, this is my first post on HF. Whee!


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07-20-2006, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mjdlight View Post
As a Ranger fan, I can pretty confidently say the only clear mistakes Lou made were the M&M&M contracts.

Other than that, everything he's done has been defensible, in my view. Now, that doesn't mean something like the Elias deal might turn a bit sour if say, by the 6th year of the deal, Elias is a shell of his former self and Lou can't even send him to the minors or waive him. But it also might work out extrodinarily well.

Every move has risk, so merely saying, "This move is risky for reasons A,B,C" is not thoughtful analysis.

The key question is: Was the decision rational and defensible? If there answer is yes, than a GM has done his job.

I think Lou's decision to lock Elias up to that deal was defensible.

I also see the Rangers' decision not to go hog-wild and offer Elias 8.8 per year plus the no-movement clause as defensible as well.

Everyone did the right thing here.

Valid points.

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07-20-2006, 05:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
Now you're grasping at straws. $18 million for 4 core players is pretty darn good in this cap world. And I believe this current CBA expires in 4 more years....I guess Lou doesn't know what he's doing.

And when the Rangers actually have some core players that help them win cups, then maybe you will appreciate long term contracts. Let's see in several years if you're so against these deals when Lundqvist, Prucha or Staal reach RFA/UFA status. We will see.
Well grasping at straws is grasping at something. IMO Lou is falling off the cliff. It seems to me that Devil fans for the most part have the view that he is pert near infallible. Lou is without a doubt a hall of fame worthy GM. That is more than I can say for our own but ours has least made good sound fiscal decisions since the lockout. Lou's handling of his team since the cap has been implemented is verging on the disastrous. Tying up 40% of your payroll in 4 players and if it weren't for the M & M contracts they'd being tying up 50% in 5 players--make that 5 aging players especially at the end of these contracts. You have learn to cut bait at some point. I expect he (and you) are going to lose someone or two of significance shortly. I also expect you will not get fair value back. As for the CBA after 1 year it seems to be working. I expect that pretty much it'll be the same CBA when it is re-newed.

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07-20-2006, 05:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Well grasping at straws is grasping at something. IMO Lou is falling off the cliff. It seems to me that Devil fans for the most part have the view that he is pert near infallible. Lou is without a doubt a hall of fame worthy GM. That is more than I can say for our own but ours has least made good sound fiscal decisions since the lockout. Lou's handling of his team since the cap has been implemented is verging on the disastrous. Tying up 40% of your payroll in 4 players and if it weren't for the M & M contracts they'd being tying up 50% in 5 players--make that 5 aging players especially at the end of these contracts. You have learn to cut bait at some point. I expect he (and you) are going to lose someone or two of significance shortly. I also expect you will not get fair value back. As for the CBA after 1 year it seems to be working. I expect that pretty much it'll be the same CBA when it is re-newed.
Every Devils fan will concede he blew it big time with the 3M deals, but aside from that I think he's done a good job. Despite that disaster, last season still turned out rather well for the Devils after a shaky start and it remains to be see what the '06-'07 team will look like.

I don't quite get your criticism of Lou locking up his core players. It can be argued that all signed below market value contracts, though at the expense of added years. All four have more than proven they can succeed in the Devils system, they all step up their game in the playoffs (maybe White to a lesser extent than the others), all have won at least 2 Cups. Sure, it may cost us with some current players and we may not get fair value back - but letting Langenbrunner or Elias walk gets us nothing back. It's easy to see why Lou made those signings, even if 40% of this year's cap is tied up in those players. Even if Gomez is the one that winds up getting dealt, we'll get a decent enough return for him.

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07-20-2006, 05:40 PM
  #59
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It may turn out you'll have an even better season this year. I expect you will lose someone major though and again you won't get the return that loss deserves. To me as far as forwards go I like Elias the best but as far as real value goes Gionta and Gomez are more important because they are a few years younger. You cannot expect a 35 year old Elias to be as good as a 30 year old Elias. He might be but look at the difference between a 30 and 35 old Mogilny. Gomez, Gionta, Bergfors, Zajac and Parise are the real core up front you should be looking at in 5 years but you'll still be paying all these other guys. Anyway those who think it's just Ranger fans ragging on Devils fan--to me that's a little off as most of the posters here can recite chapter and verse on a whole host of atrocious mistakes made in the pre-cap days by our own GM. It's just he's not making them lately and yours for some reason is.

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07-20-2006, 06:13 PM
  #60
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Anyway those who think it's just Ranger fans ragging on Devils fan--to me that's a little off as most of the posters here can recite chapter and verse on a whole host of atrocious mistakes made in the pre-cap days by our own GM.
Just an observation, Eco (and one cannot disagree with your point above):

Is anyone suggesting that "Ranger fans" are ragging on NJD? Maybe I missed it. Personally, was just pointing out the hypocrisy and Johnny-one-note mentality of a couple of usual suspects. Every fanbase has 'em. And while it's their right to read from their team's Fanboy Manifesto daily, it's the right of others to call them out for what they are.

With regard to NJD, here's the thing. Go back 12 months. Same, exact stuff being said about that fool Lou, his UFA mistakes and mismanagement of cap space. Valid last July, it appeared, valid now, it appears. However....

....Do we judge a GM by virtue of his cap situation in July....Or how that situation plays itself out on the ice from October through the end of the season?

Seems to me that the fool in NJ did quite well as it turns out last year, despite all the chicken littles declaring the sky falling over Continental Arena.

Likewise, already, the proclamations are out on this current off-season. Note: off-season. It reads a lot more like wishful thinking at this point. You have already declared Lou as making atrocious mistakes, whereas Sather no longer is doing so. Well, the same could have been said last off-season. How did it play itself out, October-May? I recognize that scoreboard and standings (results) are casually and conveniently overlooked by some, but ultimately that is what this is all about, IMO.

Sather's blunders of the past lead to overpriced, non-playoff teams. Lou's blunders last summer led to a Final Eight playoff team. Maybe this year will be different, in which case the premature criticism will be fully justified.

Maybe.

Stating it as fact, a foregone conclusion is misguided, wishful thinking, as one should have learned from this last season.

Just my opinion.

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07-20-2006, 08:44 PM
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Just an observation, Eco (and one cannot disagree with your point above):

Is anyone suggesting that "Ranger fans" are ragging on NJD? Maybe I missed it. Personally, was just pointing out the hypocrisy and Johnny-one-note mentality of a couple of usual suspects. Every fanbase has 'em. And while it's their right to read from their team's Fanboy Manifesto daily, it's the right of others to call them out for what they are.

With regard to NJD, here's the thing. Go back 12 months. Same, exact stuff being said about that fool Lou, his UFA mistakes and mismanagement of cap space. Valid last July, it appeared, valid now, it appears. However....

....Do we judge a GM by virtue of his cap situation in July....Or how that situation plays itself out on the ice from October through the end of the season?

Seems to me that the fool in NJ did quite well as it turns out last year, despite all the chicken littles declaring the sky falling over Continental Arena.

Likewise, already, the proclamations are out on this current off-season. Note: off-season. It reads a lot more like wishful thinking at this point. You have already declared Lou as making atrocious mistakes, whereas Sather no longer is doing so. Well, the same could have been said last off-season. How did it play itself out, October-May? I recognize that scoreboard and standings (results) are casually and conveniently overlooked by some, but ultimately that is what this is all about, IMO.

Sather's blunders of the past lead to overpriced, non-playoff teams. Lou's blunders last summer led to a Final Eight playoff team. Maybe this year will be different, in which case the premature criticism will be fully justified.

Maybe.

Stating it as fact, a foregone conclusion is misguided, wishful thinking, as one should have learned from this last season.

Just my opinion.

Here's the problem I have with your insight into the situation, last year. Many on here knew that the true price was to be paid this year because we knew that despite the lou aid that was coming from devil mgmt and their fans that the CBA said something quite different. If you are going to "call us out" at least call us out on the right stuff.

Could NJ still get bailed out? Yes. Absolutely. But that would require some other GM ot GMs being very benevolent and the last time anyone looked the NHL GM fraternity was not to be mistaken for the sisters of charity. So regardless of what happens there is a cost and a cost that need not have been paid. Malakhov is the really interesting one. He said he was retiring and Lou goes and does Checketts ot a Dolan and thorws a bushel of dough at a guy who really had little interest in continuing to play. That's the part that no devil fan will admit to. That and the part that you don't throw a multy year contract at a guy who has already told you he thinks he wants to call it quits. That's the part that truly defies logic. Especially when one stops and remembers devil fans bragging that Lou has all this inside information on the cap and how they were going to have a big advantage in the cap era because Lou knew all these things and other GMs were going to have a yield curve.

Mogilny I think we all would agree that was a move to get a player Robinson may have wanted and the same thing may be said of Vlad. But again the key was the multy year deals. If the NYRs were the poster boy for bad contracts in the pre cap years why is it that an organization that had committed such sins abstained from committing the over 35 mulity year blunder? Was the portion of the cap really that hard to understand regarding that issue? Is it possible that teams were briefed on it and cautioned?

So excuse us if we rub their nose in it a bit. We've been taking on the chin for a few years. I love have some fan bases can dish out and then when the tables turn they become indignant and turn around and criticize and ridicule us for doing the exact samething they were doing when the roles were reversed.

Let's not forget for one moment that the subject matter is relivant and a very new topic. That by itself warrants the level of discussion that it has generated.

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07-20-2006, 08:51 PM
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Every Devils fan will concede he blew it big time with the 3M deals, but aside from that I think he's done a good job. Despite that disaster, last season still turned out rather well for the Devils after a shaky start and it remains to be see what the '06-'07 team will look like.

I don't quite get your criticism of Lou locking up his core players. It can be argued that all signed below market value contracts, though at the expense of added years. All four have more than proven they can succeed in the Devils system, they all step up their game in the playoffs (maybe White to a lesser extent than the others), all have won at least 2 Cups. Sure, it may cost us with some current players and we may not get fair value back - but letting Langenbrunner or Elias walk gets us nothing back. It's easy to see why Lou made those signings, even if 40% of this year's cap is tied up in those players. Even if Gomez is the one that winds up getting dealt, we'll get a decent enough return for him.

Lou is doing what he has to do. He's always operated on the premise that he takes care of the loyal, low maintenance guys, hence Elias & White. Gomez has been far from the perfect player for NJ in terms of baggage. It has always been a turbulent tenure. Personally I think he has Gionta and Martin done but has a gentlemen's agreement with each. He's waiting to see what happens with Gomez, whether he can keep him or has to trade him.

Elias did not give NJ a home town discount. Elias got the same dollars the rangers offered, just spread out for 2 additional years. Smart move by Lou, but again, that bill will be due 6 & 7 years from now. So the true intelligence and genius of that contract structure is years from being known. All Lou did was postpone the bill and in doing so allowed him to retain Elias. He or the organization will have to worry about that down the road. But in know way should anyone say that Elias gave NJ a home team discount. If that was the case it would have been $6M for 5 years.

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07-20-2006, 08:57 PM
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You have to remember LIG, in the mind of a few myopics, anything MY team does...Good. Anything NJD does (or even doesn't do, in this case)....BAD.

Lou, so says the "Boy", is foolish for the contracts he gave Elias, White (an "average" defenseman; guess Tyutin is a Norris Trophy candidate in his fairytale world!) and Langenbrunner. He laughs at him.

Yet, based on what? Certainly not accomplishment. Love myopics who punch up at teams above them. That little, itty, bitty factoid always seems to escape the feeble mind of the fanboys. Would be akin to me, an NYI fan, ripping NYR. Silly.

Win something/anything, surpass your competitor...and then, if you must, act like an ***. Criticizing execs, coaches and players who have accomplished more - repeatedly - is embarassing. But predictable, in this case.

Happens every summer. A couple of the same old delusionists get tired of staring at the Jagr poster on the ceiling above the bed and start trying to deconstruct NJD. Because they "know" the CBA better than the guy in NJ.

with your ship listing pretty bad has Wang thought of bring in the Skipper & Gilligan? They are pretty good at handling a flounding ship in rough seas. At least they made land.

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07-20-2006, 09:29 PM
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Well grasping at straws is grasping at something. IMO Lou is falling off the cliff. It seems to me that Devil fans for the most part have the view that he is pert near infallible. Lou is without a doubt a hall of fame worthy GM. That is more than I can say for our own but ours has least made good sound fiscal decisions since the lockout. Lou's handling of his team since the cap has been implemented is verging on the disastrous. Tying up 40% of your payroll in 4 players and if it weren't for the M & M contracts they'd being tying up 50% in 5 players--make that 5 aging players especially at the end of these contracts. You have learn to cut bait at some point. I expect he (and you) are going to lose someone or two of significance shortly. I also expect you will not get fair value back. As for the CBA after 1 year it seems to be working. I expect that pretty much it'll be the same CBA when it is re-newed.
Are you a fortune teller to in your free time, because it seems like you have the future of the NHL all figured out. Let's see, first you believe the cap won't go up much higher, then you state that you're pretty sure that CBA will be renewed as is. Have any good horse tips?

I have to tell you, I think your more preoccupied with the Ranges be cap champs, while I rather have the Devils be cup champs. I'll go with Lou's judgement signing our aging core players long term. Yea, I would have like both White and Lagenbrunner to get one year less, but have no problem with the Elias contract, who by the way was offered a $7 million/5 year deal by your Rangers. Sorry, but I’m not going to worry about five years from now, especially with the CBA “Expiring” in four, but be my guest and knock yourself out.

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07-20-2006, 10:35 PM
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Sorry, I fail to see how giving proven commodities as Elias and White long contracts is a bad idea especially when they at a home discount for the Devils. That's two players - three when you count Lagenbrunner - that we don't EVER have to worry about resigning at least for another five years or so.
COME ON LIG, a "Hometown Discount" for Colin White?!?!

You gotta be KIDDING ME. Let's be real now here, everyone knows Lou overpaid for him. He's a guy that was a 4th defender at best on a championship team, and is still a 4th defender on a team that's a playoff contender.

I bet you were one of the people slagging the Rangers for paying DeVries 4 million. At least when we paid him that, he led all NHL defenders in even-strength points (26) the season before.

That contract, plus the M&M contracts so far is looking to be like Lou's undoing of the team. Giving Elias 7 million per year over 6 years with a no-movement clause wasn't exactly smart either, even though Elias can claim merit to that kind of pay. It's the length and conditions of the contract which make that deal an absolute back-breaker.

Lou was the smartest gm in league for a span of over a decade, and now with a new format, which he helped devise, he's come undone.

I just don't get it, one of the smartest front office minds we've seen in a while, just go buckwild. It's almost as bad as Sather's puppet days, at the end of strings being pulled by James Dolan.

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07-20-2006, 10:45 PM
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So, now where did I ever say that it's just a matter of demoting McGillis?

If anything, I should have said our "immediate" concern.
You're right, you should have, and that "immediate concern" is Gomez, whether you lock him up and then trade him, or he goes to arbitration, and what he is awarded. But what is McGillis going to help, if you have 4 RFA's to lock up, and the first and most important one, at least in my opinion, is going to drive you right up to that $48 million dollar offseason excess limit?

McGillis of course is going to be gone, but you people think that it's going to help, you're going to have to move either Rafalski, White, Gionta, Gomez, Hale, and or Martin. Lou really screwed himself with the M&M contracts.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you guys are either forgetting or don't realize how many players you have to lock-up, and what it's going to take to get under the cap.

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07-21-2006, 12:56 AM
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Here's the problem I have with your insight into the situation, last year. Many on here knew that the true price was to be paid this year because we knew that despite the lou aid that was coming from devil mgmt and their fans that the CBA said something quite different. If you are going to "call us out" at least call us out on the right stuff.
"Many"? You have been pointing to this off-season for a long time, without question, since last summer. But you were part of a very small minority in that regard.

Certainly, you do recall numerous myopics - NYR or otherwise - predicting the "end" of NJD last summer, do you not?

And, of course, we'll have to see if your prediction for this summer comes to pass - it may very well. But, even if Gomez or whomever is moved, we still will not know until the games are played if a price is truly "paid".

But hey, why wait? This is as good a strawman as one may get.


Last edited by Trottier: 07-21-2006 at 03:01 AM.
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07-21-2006, 02:34 AM
  #68
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Just an observation, Eco (and one cannot disagree with your point above):

Is anyone suggesting that "Ranger fans" are ragging on NJD? Maybe I missed it. Personally, was just pointing out the hypocrisy and Johnny-one-note mentality of a couple of usual suspects. Every fanbase has 'em. And while it's their right to read from their team's Fanboy Manifesto daily, it's the right of others to call them out for what they are.

With regard to NJD, here's the thing. Go back 12 months. Same, exact stuff being said about that fool Lou, his UFA mistakes and mismanagement of cap space. Valid last July, it appeared, valid now, it appears. However....

....Do we judge a GM by virtue of his cap situation in July....Or how that situation plays itself out on the ice from October through the end of the season?

Seems to me that the fool in NJ did quite well as it turns out last year, despite all the chicken littles declaring the sky falling over Continental Arena.

Likewise, already, the proclamations are out on this current off-season. Note: off-season. It reads a lot more like wishful thinking at this point. You have already declared Lou as making atrocious mistakes, whereas Sather no longer is doing so. Well, the same could have been said last off-season. How did it play itself out, October-May? I recognize that scoreboard and standings (results) are casually and conveniently overlooked by some, but ultimately that is what this is all about, IMO.

Sather's blunders of the past lead to overpriced, non-playoff teams. Lou's blunders last summer led to a Final Eight playoff team. Maybe this year will be different, in which case the premature criticism will be fully justified.

Maybe.

Stating it as fact, a foregone conclusion is misguided, wishful thinking, as one should have learned from this last season.

Just my opinion.
No Trots I brought it up because that is what I think the underlying perception is by Devils fans. It's very difficult it seems to me for most of them to even agree that Lou has made some mistakes apart from the M & M & M signings. In any event even before I posted I read here for quite a while and there were always discussions about what other teams within the conference were doing while Sather was signing this guy and that guy. In any case it keeps popping up here and we continue to comment on and it continues to draw people from the Devils board and it's obvious there is a disconnect. I will go back to the point that they are right at the cap figure--and short a few players including some key ones and something has got to give. Last year the Flyer's were in somewhat a similar position (although I think the Devils situation this year is even worse) and traded Roenick and a 3rd for future considerations to the Kings as more or less a salary dump. I was surprised anyone at the time would help them out and it didn't really work out well for the Kings. The problem here with NJ is they really would like to keep all their players and not dump anyone. Do they have to gut their bottom lines and their defense to do that and will it be enough? I don't think so and I also don't think that Lou is going to win his arbitration with Gomez or pull a rabbit out of his hat and keep everyone together. The point of entrance for me in this debate was really on whether the Rangers will or will not derive some benefit from the situation of NJ moving a core player which I think is possible and why they might be holding pat on using the several million in cap space they still have. I have never thought that Lou was going to do a deal with us though.

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07-21-2006, 03:46 AM
  #69
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From an Oiler fan perspective I have to agree, mostly, with the Devil's fans in terms of:

-- Lou's only real mistake was the MMM deals
-- Lou will take it one step at a time and that he DOES have that time
-- the Elias and White contracts are sweet, sweet, sweet deals - the White deal especially is GOLD standard as far as I am concerned

That said I am surprised that Lou hasn't blown up the four most obvious parts of the team.

i.e. doing whatever it takes to unload as many of the M's as possible and then unloading Gomez (who will always be a salary headache) as well - but doing so WITHOUT the salary pressure in play

--- Pittsburgh needs to make the salary floor. Why not offer them Mogilny and a 2nd 2007 and a 2nd 2008 for a 5th 2007 and a 5th 2008? Voila - 3+ million GONE!
--- Lou then has the flexibility to trade Gomez for something of value because a) he isn't under the gun and b) he can actually take salary back in trade

Look for teams that are willing to do that (Pittsburgh, Washington are two that may). Long-term giving up two 2nd rounders sucks BUT will that be any worse than getting a poor return on Gomez because the Cap issue i unavoidable?

Be interesting to see what Lou does but imo one of the last peopl to ever bet against in the NHL GM ranks is Lou. He cocked up once... and he isn't the type to do it again.

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07-21-2006, 06:18 AM
  #70
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COME ON LIG, a "Hometown Discount" for Colin White?!?!

You gotta be KIDDING ME. Let's be real now here, everyone knows Lou overpaid for him. He's a guy that was a 4th defender at best on a championship team, and is still a 4th defender on a team that's a playoff contender.

I bet you were one of the people slagging the Rangers for paying DeVries 4 million. At least when we paid him that, he led all NHL defenders in even-strength points (26) the season before.

That contract, plus the M&M contracts so far is looking to be like Lou's undoing of the team. Giving Elias 7 million per year over 6 years with a no-movement clause wasn't exactly smart either, even though Elias can claim merit to that kind of pay. It's the length and conditions of the contract which make that deal an absolute back-breaker.

Lou was the smartest gm in league for a span of over a decade, and now with a new format, which he helped devise, he's come undone.

I just don't get it, one of the smartest front office minds we've seen in a while, just go buckwild. It's almost as bad as Sather's puppet days, at the end of strings being pulled by James Dolan.
Uh uh, if your going to do your usual Devil bashing without fail, can you at least get the facts straight?

It's seven years for $6 Mill.

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07-21-2006, 06:23 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by YKOil View Post
From an Oiler fan perspective I have to agree, mostly, with the Devil's fans in terms of:

-- Lou's only real mistake was the MMM deals
-- Lou will take it one step at a time and that he DOES have that time
-- the Elias and White contracts are sweet, sweet, sweet deals - the White deal especially is GOLD standard as far as I am concerned

That said I am surprised that Lou hasn't blown up the four most obvious parts of the team.

i.e. doing whatever it takes to unload as many of the M's as possible and then unloading Gomez (who will always be a salary headache) as well - but doing so WITHOUT the salary pressure in play

--- Pittsburgh needs to make the salary floor. Why not offer them Mogilny and a 2nd 2007 and a 2nd 2008 for a 5th 2007 and a 5th 2008? Voila - 3+ million GONE!
--- Lou then has the flexibility to trade Gomez for something of value because a) he isn't under the gun and b) he can actually take salary back in trade

Look for teams that are willing to do that (Pittsburgh, Washington are two that may). Long-term giving up two 2nd rounders sucks BUT will that be any worse than getting a poor return on Gomez because the Cap issue i unavoidable?

Be interesting to see what Lou does but imo one of the last peopl to ever bet against in the NHL GM ranks is Lou. He cocked up once... and he isn't the type to do it again.
Have you checked out the actual payrolls of the Penguins and Caps?They are approaching the $28 million floor.When they re-sign their own players,they will be closer ie Malkin who will carry a $3.8 million cap #.They can't have a payroll much higher than the floor because then they will not receive revenue sharing

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07-21-2006, 06:27 AM
  #72
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If Gomez "loses," a free-agent move might be attractive. If he "wins," Lamoriello will have trouble trading the big salary he'd gain and still receive back the top center he'd desperately need
http://www.nypost.com/sports/devils/...rk_everson.htm

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07-21-2006, 06:31 AM
  #73
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An offer sheet worth between $1-$2 million requires a second round pick as compensation.Duncan Keith signed a 4 year/$5.9 million deal last week.Comparable player.An offer sheet worth $1.99 million per might get Paul Martin out of New Jersey at the cost of a second round pick.The Devils couldn't afford to match right now because all players on one way deals count against their cap including the $2.2 million to Dan McGiilis

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07-21-2006, 06:37 AM
  #74
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Sorry, I fail to see how giving proven commodities as Elias and White long contracts is a bad idea especially when they at a home discount for the Devils. That's two players - three when you count Lagenbrunner - that we don't EVER have to worry about resigning at least for another five years or so.
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"Teams spent a lot of money this summer," said Atlanta Thrashers general manager Don Waddell. "I can only speak for Atlanta, but our concern was to stay away from four- or five-year deals, because we don't know where the cap is headed."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...lary-cap_x.htm

Lou is very fortunate the cap increased by $5 million instead of decreasing by $3-4 million.Sorry but locking up Elias to a seven year deal with the NMC/NTC clause just ties a GM's hands.Everyone points to the great job Lou did of keeping the Devil players but he handed out a 7 year complete restriction clause,a limited NTC and a six year contract to a good defenseman.The Rangers gave Darius Kasparaitis a six year deal in 2002 and he is not worth it

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07-21-2006, 06:56 AM
  #75
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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...lary-cap_x.htm

Lou is very fortunate the cap increased by $5 million instead of decreasing by $3-4 million.Sorry but locking up Elias to a seven year deal with the NMC/NTC clause just ties a GM's hands.Everyone points to the great job Lou did of keeping the Devil players but he handed out a 7 year complete restriction clause,a limited NTC and a six year contract to a good defenseman.
When Lou made these contracts he knew how much the cap was increasing, how is he fortunate enough when he already knew?

And it amazes me that some people fail to at least recognise that Lou has secured one of the best players in the league for seven years at a great price.

What has Elias ever done to make you think this is a bad risk signing that we would want to ever trade him?

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The Rangers gave Darius Kasparaitis a six year deal in 2002 and he is not worth it
Kasper isn't even in the same league as Elias as a player, to compare their contracts makes NO sense man.

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