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OT: official mets disscusion thread (including playoffs)

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Old
07-24-2006, 12:38 AM
  #76
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down on the farm Miguel Pinango tossed a 7 inning no hitter at Portland today as Binghamton beat Portland 7-0

BINGHAMTON at PORTLAND
FINAL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
BINGHAMTON 0 0 6 0 0 0 1 - - 7 9 1
PORTLAND 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - - 0 0 2

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07-25-2006, 04:16 PM
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I don't know why this doesn't get more serious consideration.

The Mets have a huge lead and really don't have much to worry about. So why don't they use a six man rotation for a month and a half. Then two weeks before the playoffs start go back to the five man to get the guys ready for the playoffs. This allows the old men to have an extra days rest and be fresh later on?

pedro
glavine
trachsel
el duque
maine
pelfrey/soler/bannister
Willie, Omar, and I had a good talk...We think this is the best course of action.


http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/m...=.jsp&c_id=nym

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07-25-2006, 05:20 PM
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rename it the official NY baseball talk thread and it should get stickied.

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07-25-2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
i don't see how them being 4.5 out of the wildcard is relevant to the mets. Atlanta is what? 12 games behind us now. Somthing major would have to happen for them to make up that gap. If Atlanta gets the wild card then we can't play them in the first round, even though we will probably have the best record. So we wouldn't see the braves until the NLCS (if both teams made it.)
How is it not relevant? Atlanta has pretty much owned the Mets in the past and seems to be a ghost they cannot exorcise. Though I guess maybe the Mets will be better off playing Atlanta in the NLCS and beating them. It seemed like that was the only way Boston could've have exorcised their demons (yanks), so maybe it is best. I just think that, if I were a met fan, I would have a little concern. I would have more concern if I had to play them in the first round but that cannot happen.

Although the chances of Atlanta catching the mets are slim to nil, it is still possible. there are two full months of baseball left. Obviously, you are correct in saying that something major would have to happen and that is unlikely. Don't hang your pennant just yet...

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07-25-2006, 06:30 PM
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if the mets manage to blow this lead then they don't diserve to sniff the playoffs anyway. It would be one of the biggest collapses in the last half century of baseball, certainly in my lifetime.

Right now I do not view the braves as a threat. If we play them in the NLCS then we play them, I won't be concerned about them untill that happens. And for all the history, I'd still rather see atlanta than houston winning the wildcard.

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07-25-2006, 06:35 PM
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if the mets manage to blow this lead then they don't diserve to sniff the playoffs anyway. It would be one of the biggest collapses in the last half century of baseball, certainly in my lifetime.

Right now I do not view the braves as a threat. If we play them in the NLCS then we play them, I won't be concerned about them untill that happens. And for all the history, I'd still rather see atlanta than houston winning the wildcard.
Yeah, I have to agree. I guess there is no reason to be concerned until it actually happens because there is no sense in worrying about something that is a very remote possibility. Makes sense. I was just curious what most Met fans thought about the subject. Thanks for the response.

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07-25-2006, 06:46 PM
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it's certainly a fair subject to bring up, as the braves have dominated the mets over the last decade, and there is certainly a scar of some degree that still exists in the minds of many mets fans. If the braves where 5 back then I think alot of us would start to say: here we go again. But as of now I think we don't need to worry ourselves over it.

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07-26-2006, 07:17 PM
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maine is impressive once again:
7 innings, no runs, 3 hits, 3 walks, 7 strikeouts.

that's two stellar performances in a row and 17 (including 1 inning of work out of then pen on the 15th) scoreless innings in a row.

Granted it's all been against the cubs and astros (two fairly unimpressive offensive teams) but he's certainly giving the brass a reason to ake a long look at him.

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07-26-2006, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
maine is impressive once again:
7 innings, no runs, 3 hits, 3 walks, 7 strikeouts.

that's two stellar performances in a row and 17 (including 1 inning of work out of then pen on the 15th) scoreless innings in a row.

Granted it's all been against the cubs and astros (two fairly unimpressive offensive teams) but he's certainly giving the brass a reason to ake a long look at him.

The Mets have quite a few interesting arms in the system - Pelfrey, Maine, Humber(whos's pitched pretty well since coming back), Guerra and Niese all look good. Bannister pitched a simulated game, so he's not that far away, either. Plus, with both Ring and Lidstrom pitching well, I'd definitely put Heilman in a package for Zito. From what I've read, Beane will deal Zito straight up for Milledge (he likes him that much.) Or he 'll deal him for a package that includes Heilman, so you'd probably have to include Carlos Gomez. The reality of the situation is, do you trade for Zito, just to get him to essentially win the WS. This team, IMO can go to the World as currently constituted. But, they probably don't match up pitching wise with the likes of any of the teams in the AL Central. After watching Glavine lately, I'd find a way to get Zito, take the chance he walks away, (although, I think we could see a situation similar to what we saw with Piazza in 1998), and, dewpendiong upon how things turn out, offer him a 5-year, $75 million contract. Omar's handled Boras pretty well, so, I figure he;s not worrying about dealing with him for Zito. And, if Zito walks away, the Mets get two 1st round picks for losing him. If you give up Milledge, you've got Gomez and F-Mart coming through the system. I'd take the chance on Zito.

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07-26-2006, 08:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
The Mets have quite a few interesting arms in the system - Pelfrey, Maine, Humber(whos's pitched pretty well since coming back), Guerra and Niese all look good. Bannister pitched a simulated game, so he's not that far away, either. Plus, with both Ring and Lidstrom pitching well, I'd definitely put Heilman in a package for Zito. From what I've read, Beane will deal Zito straight up for Milledge (he likes him that much.) Or he 'll deal him for a package that includes Heilman, so you'd probably have to include Carlos Gomez. The reality of the situation is, do you trade for Zito, just to get him to essentially win the WS. This team, IMO can go to the World as currently constituted. But, they probably don't match up pitching wise with the likes of any of the teams in the AL Central. After watching Glavine lately, I'd find a way to get Zito, take the chance he walks away, (although, I think we could see a situation similar to what we saw with Piazza in 1998), and, dewpendiong upon how things turn out, offer him a 5-year, $75 million contract. Omar's handled Boras pretty well, so, I figure he;s not worrying about dealing with him for Zito. And, if Zito walks away, the Mets get two 1st round picks for losing him. If you give up Milledge, you've got Gomez and F-Mart coming through the system. I'd take the chance on Zito.
the problem is that the guys your talking about (gomez, martinez, guerra) are all projects right now. Martinez and Guerra are only 18 and 17, and I believe that gomez is the same age as Milledge, but hitting on .275 in AA. These are not guys that we're going to be seeing for a few years.

The mets have a young core of players that is, imo, ready to take off. If you keep Milledge and Pelfrey they step in next year and becomes part of that core (if all things go well.) There is no one else that replaces him in the imidiate future. I see Milledge as a final piece to an exciting group of young position players and Pelfrey as the foundation of a young rotation. I don't think you can move either one for 3 months of Zito (we all know he's going to test the market no matter what.) Just sign him in the off season for free (well, aside from the contract, which you'd have to give him anyway.)

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07-26-2006, 08:43 PM
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Pelfrey is gonna need to do alot of work on his off speed pitches to be a successful starter.

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07-26-2006, 08:47 PM
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the problem is that the guys your talking about (gomez, martinez, guerra) are all projects right now. Martinez and Guerra are only 18 and 17, and I believe that gomez is the same age as Milledge, but hitting on .275 in AA. These are not guys that we're going to be seeing for a few years.

The mets have a young core of players that is, imo, ready to take off. If you keep Milledge and Pelfrey they step in next year and becomes part of that core (if all things go well.) There is no one else that replaces him in the imidiate future. I see Milledge as a final piece to an exciting group of young position players and Pelfrey as the foundation of a young rotation. I don't think you can move either one for 3 months of Zito (we all know he's going to test the market no matter what.) Just sign him in the off season for free (well, aside from the contract, which you'd have to give him anyway.)
Pelfrey is NOT getting traded. That was never my consideration. I'm going by what I've read from Olnet and Stark at ESPN - Beane would consider either Milledge straight up for Zito, or he's take a package without Milledge, but with Heilman (and most likely Gomez.) I like Milledge a lot, but will he get the proper chance to develop in NY? Look at what he stirrred up in his first few weeks - the kid is electric, but he's a magnet. Some of it's media overhype, and some of it's of his own making. The worst case scenario with getting Zito now is you lose a Milledge, but a get two #1 picks to replace him. (I still think Zito's a good bet to sign with the Mets regardless.) Get him now, and your chances to win the World Series go up. My feeling is that the Mets will make the WS regardless of whther Zito is here or not. But, do you pay the extra for a better chance to win it all?

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07-26-2006, 09:34 PM
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Pelfrey is NOT getting traded. That was never my consideration. I'm going by what I've read from Olnet and Stark at ESPN - Beane would consider either Milledge straight up for Zito, or he's take a package without Milledge, but with Heilman (and most likely Gomez.) I like Milledge a lot, but will he get the proper chance to develop in NY? Look at what he stirrred up in his first few weeks - the kid is electric, but he's a magnet. Some of it's media overhype, and some of it's of his own making. The worst case scenario with getting Zito now is you lose a Milledge, but a get two #1 picks to replace him. (I still think Zito's a good bet to sign with the Mets regardless.) Get him now, and your chances to win the World Series go up. My feeling is that the Mets will make the WS regardless of whther Zito is here or not. But, do you pay the extra for a better chance to win it all?
I wouldn't mind moving a heilman and a gomez for zito, but I think Milledge is just too good of a prospect to move for a rental. The cockiness doesn't concern me, I don't think the kid is a headcase, he's just young and probably thinks too much of himself, he's not the first.

I know the mets have a chance to win now, but I see this as the start of a long run. There's an excelent core developing and it seems as if Omar is dedicated to developing a pipeline of players in the minors (though it will never be the twins.)

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07-26-2006, 09:36 PM
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Pelfrey is gonna need to do alot of work on his off speed pitches to be a successful starter.
I think his changeup has actually been pretty impressive, it's just that he's inconsistent in locating it. But the pitch is good. Give me the guy with nasty stuff and consitency problems and I'll take my chances that he works it out (and pelfrey is only 10 months removed from witchita state.) Especially when you consider that pelfrey looks like a guy with a tough mental makeup.

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07-26-2006, 09:40 PM
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If there was really anyway the Mets could get Zito for a package centering around Heilman, then don't you think Omar would've pulled the trigger already?

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07-26-2006, 09:47 PM
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If there was really anyway the Mets could get Zito for a package centering around Heilman, then don't you think Omar would've pulled the trigger already?
my guess is that such a deal would only happen on the day of the trading deadline, as beane would wait for last minute offers.

however, I agree that such an offer is unlikely. The A's are not out of the race in the slightest, it probabl takes more than that package for them to deal they're ace (even if they will lose him for nothing.)

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07-27-2006, 12:05 AM
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I think his changeup has actually been pretty impressive, it's just that he's inconsistent in locating it. But the pitch is good. Give me the guy with nasty stuff and consitency problems and I'll take my chances that he works it out (and pelfrey is only 10 months removed from witchita state.) Especially when you consider that pelfrey looks like a guy with a tough mental makeup.
His change was alright. Of the three games I saw, I thought he only threw one REALLY good one.

The thing is, other than his fastball, his stuff is not nasty. Unless he improves his off speed stuff greatly, it's gonna be bullpen time for Pelfrey.

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07-27-2006, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Korpido View Post
Pelfrey is gonna need to do alot of work on his off speed pitches to be a successful starter.
Pelfrey has allot potential, he shows allot of poise out there and is not easily rattled. I dont think anyone should have expected him to dominate given the amount of time hes had in proball.
Im sure he will work on the offspeed stuff in the offseason.

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07-27-2006, 05:47 AM
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If there was really anyway the Mets could get Zito for a package centering around Heilman, then don't you think Omar would've pulled the trigger already?

http://www.metsblog.com/blog/_archiv...6/2164950.html

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“He can, he can make that trade right now,” Olney says, assuming Minaya will part with Lastings Milledge straight-up, “I promise you that deal would be done within an hour.”…

Additionally, Olney points out that Beane may be willing to part with Zito for just Aaron Heilman, as long as the Mets filled in with other prospects, Beane would pull the trigger…

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07-27-2006, 08:20 AM
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I wouldn't mind moving a heilman and a gomez for zito, but I think Milledge is just too good of a prospect to move for a rental. The cockiness doesn't concern me, I don't think the kid is a headcase, he's just young and probably thinks too much of himself, he's not the first.
Heilman and Gomez may not get you Maddux, let alone Zito. The thing with the Mets is that they are in a little pickle. The team, as currenlty constituted does have a decent young core, but they are also build to win NOW. However, unless there is major improvement to the pitching staff, I do not see them beating the Cards, let alone any team in the AL.

In Milledge's case, it is not strictly about moving him for a rental. The question that you have to answer is would you rather keep him or win the WS THIS year. I am not saying that moving him for a frontline pitcher guarantees anything, but it certainly greatly enchances the possiblity.

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07-27-2006, 08:38 AM
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Heilman and Gomez may not get you Maddux, let alone Zito. The thing with the Mets is that they are in a little pickle. The team, as currenlty constituted does have a decent young core, but they are also build to win NOW. However, unless there is major improvement to the pitching staff, I do not see them beating the Cards, let alone any team in the AL.

In Milledge's case, it is not strictly about moving him for a rental. The question that you have to answer is would you rather keep him or win the WS THIS year. I am not saying that moving him for a frontline pitcher guarantees anything, but it certainly greatly enchances the possiblity.

The Cardinals??!! Let's see, Cris Carpenter and then who?? Jason Marquis??!! And that bullpen...as shaky as Wagner has been from time to time, Isringhausen has been awful.

As for being built to win now...they are built to win now and in the future. In two years, they will have a staff constructed around young pitching, with Pelfrey and Humber, who the Mets expect to push for a job in spring training next year being the key components. (I would be shocked if Zito wasn't signed as free agnet.) Their core is still Wright, Reyes and Beltran, and possibly Milledge. They also have circumvented the MLB draft by signing three STUD prospects from the DR - Fernando Martinez, who at 17, is hitting .335 in Hagerstown, Deolis Guerra, P and Tony Pena's son Francisco, who is already being called a Mike Piazza type with defensive ability. Omar's done a very good job of building a contender in a short amount of time, and I expect him to keep them there.

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07-27-2006, 08:44 AM
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Heilman and Gomez may not get you Maddux, let alone Zito.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=6138783&postcount=94


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The team, as currenlty constituted does have a decent young core, but they are also build to win NOW.
So having three All-Stars at their repsective positions is having a decent young core. Talk about understatement.

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07-27-2006, 09:05 AM
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The Cardinals??!! Let's see, Cris Carpenter and then who?? Jason Marquis??!!
At this point, Marguis is a better option than Glavine & Suppan is a better option than Trax. Just my opinion, off course.
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And that bullpen...as shaky as Wagner has been from time to time, Isringhausen has been awful.
Agreed.
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As for being built to win now...they are built to win now and in the future. In two years, they will have a staff constructed around young pitching, with Pelfrey and Humber, who the Mets expect to push for a job in spring training next year being the key components.
You HOPE that Humber develops. I know that he has pitched well since returning from injury, but young pitchers have bad habits of either not developing properly, getting injured or simply falling on their face. For every Justin Verlander, there is a Rick Ankiel. For every Liriano, there is a Gavin Floyd. Brien Taylor anyone? Hoping that your young pitchers develop is not the same as having proven talent. Don't get me wrong, I am not stating that they have to go out and deal the farm away, however, there is something to be said for major-league tested talent.
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(I would be shocked if Zito wasn't signed as free agnet.)
I would say that the Mets will have the inside track becuase of Petersen, but Zito will have A LOT of suitors. Including the Yankees.
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Their core is still Wright, Reyes and Beltran, and possibly Milledge. They also have circumvented the MLB draft by signing three STUD prospects from the DR - Fernando Martinez, who at 17, is hitting .335 in Hagerstown, Deolis Guerra, P and Tony Pena's son Francisco, who is already being called a Mike Piazza type with defensive ability.
I agree about their core, but the others have to wait. Supposedly the Yankess have signed the best DR (the 230lbs who simpy swats balls out of the park...Jose something or other) player since Miggy C. However, I am not jumping up and down for joy about 17 year olds just yet. Otherwise I would declare that they Yankees have the next Manny, in Tabata (another DR signing, like Jose).

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07-27-2006, 09:08 AM
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http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=6138783&postcount=94




So having three All-Stars at their repsective positions is having a decent young core. Talk about understatement.
Ok, I do not buy for one second that Heilman and a B-prospect will get you Zito. That is NOT Beane's mo. Zito is a legit #1 pitcher. It will take a top prospect, otherwise you are not getting him.
I can point to many, many teams that have 3 young All-Stars (or just very good players who did not make the All-Star team) and will call it a "core".

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07-27-2006, 09:24 AM
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Ok, I do not buy for one second that Heilman and a B-prospect will get you Zito. That is NOT Beane's mo. Zito is a legit #1 pitcher. It will take a top prospect, otherwise you are not getting him.
I can point to many, many teams that have 3 young All-Stars (or just very good players who did not make the All-Star team) and will call it a "core".
TB, we're not just talking All-Stars. Wright, Reyes and Beltran rank at the top of their respective positions.

Olney's not the only one to state that Zito could be had for that package. The A's do not have the MLB-ready prospects they've had in the past, and Beane likes Heilman a lot. He also likes Maine and Bannister. In the past, he's been willing to just get the draft picks.

BTW, according to Newsday, the Mets are scouting Zito this weekend. I would not be shocked to see Zito a Met be Monday 4PM. The question is, will the deal include Milledge or not.

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