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Detroit interested in Garon

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Old
07-21-2006, 09:22 PM
  #26
The Judge
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Garon, haunting us? I don't think so.....

I think you guys rate Garon too high for what he really is. Bottom line, if was a #1 goaltender we would be in the playoffs last year and we won't have to sign Cloutier....

Enough excuses of bad defense and injuries... like I said before, good goaltenders can steal some games but a #1 goaltender makes a habit of it. That is what they are paid to do.

Next...

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07-21-2006, 09:34 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
Garon, haunting us? I don't think so.....

I think you guys rate Garon too high for what he really is. Bottom line, if was a #1 goaltender we would be in the playoffs last year and we won't have to sign Cloutier....

Enough excuses of bad defense and injuries... like I said before, good goaltenders can steal some games but a #1 goaltender makes a habit of it. That is what they are paid to do.

Next...
And I think you rate him too low. We wouldn't have been in the playoffs even if he had stoeln more games for us. Our defense couldn't stop **** at the end of the year. Enough excuses about bad defense and injuries? Well then enough about good goaltenders stealing games from you...
Next....

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07-21-2006, 10:03 PM
  #28
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Well then enough about good goaltenders stealing games from you...
Whenever I hear people say that a #1 goaltender steals wins for his team, I can't help but wonder if what they're implying is that the current "non-#1" steals wins from his team. Of course, not everyone is, but I bet that many are.

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Old
07-21-2006, 11:09 PM
  #29
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And I think you rate him too low. We wouldn't have been in the playoffs even if he had stoeln more games for us. Our defense couldn't stop **** at the end of the year. Enough excuses about bad defense and injuries? Well then enough about good goaltenders stealing games from you...
Next....
Too low? And justifiably so....

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Old
07-21-2006, 11:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
Whenever I hear people say that a #1 goaltender steals wins for his team, I can't help but wonder if what they're implying is that the current "non-#1" steals wins from his team. Of course, not everyone is, but I bet that many are.
Oops...I meant for you and not from you.... my bad!

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Old
07-21-2006, 11:11 PM
  #31
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detroit is not interested in garon, they're interested in toskala and biron
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/det060721.html

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Old
07-21-2006, 11:22 PM
  #32
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Quote:
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Too low? And justifiably so....
You say it as if it's a fact, when it's merely an opinion.

So...

How do you "justify" your stance?

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Old
07-21-2006, 11:30 PM
  #33
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
You say it as if it's a fact, when it's merely an opinion.

So...

How do you "justify" your stance?
Obviously Garon's 3+ GAA and sub .900 SV%. I mean, Garon's numbers couldn't have anything to do with the porous defense in front of him.

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Old
07-21-2006, 11:55 PM
  #34
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Well I guess if the definition of a #1 Goalie is a guy that gets you to the playoffs....that Roberto Luongo.....who just signed for $6.75 million/year.....is nothing more than an overpaid backup goal tender?

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07-21-2006, 11:57 PM
  #35
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It seems to me that Detroit is interested in whoever they can land....

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Old
07-22-2006, 12:02 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
You say it as if it's a fact, when it's merely an opinion.

So...

How do you "justify" your stance?
Save percentage is 894%.You must admit that is pretty awful.

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Old
07-22-2006, 12:05 AM
  #37
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It seems to me that Detroit is interested in whoever they can land....
I second to that.They are in a desperate mode. They had a chance to sign Gerber but they just took so long IMO

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07-22-2006, 12:23 AM
  #38
Chazz Reinhold
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Save percentage is 894%.You must admit that is pretty awful.
That doesn't take into account the number of quality shots he was facing each night, though. Say he faced only 20 shots that were of high quality, but gave up 3 goals. That's a 3.00 GAA and an .850 SV% right there. Not very impressive numbers, but since they were difficult shots since the defense left him out to dry, those numbers are pretty misleading. For an example of inflated SV% because of defense, look no further than our old pal, Roman Chechmanek.

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Old
07-22-2006, 08:34 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
That doesn't take into account the number of quality shots he was facing each night, though. Say he faced only 20 shots that were of high quality, but gave up 3 goals. That's a 3.00 GAA and an .850 SV% right there. Not very impressive numbers, but since they were difficult shots since the defense left him out to dry, those numbers are pretty misleading. For an example of inflated SV% because of defense, look no further than our old pal, Roman Chechmanek.
I can't count how many times last season that I said, "Garon didn't even have a chance to save that one."

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Old
07-22-2006, 11:35 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
That doesn't take into account the number of quality shots he was facing each night, though. Say he faced only 20 shots that were of high quality, but gave up 3 goals. That's a 3.00 GAA and an .850 SV% right there. Not very impressive numbers, but since they were difficult shots since the defense left him out to dry, those numbers are pretty misleading. For an example of inflated SV% because of defense, look no further than our old pal, Roman Chechmanek.
In fairness, I am the Judge.. you are correct. But in retrospect, how many soft goals did he give up too? A lot. And all of us can argue back and forth about this and that. But by the end of the day each player has a role and responsibility to play. He is paid to save the puck... Just like any other job sports or non-sports.No excuses.... because numbers don't lie... And a save percentage of .894% is really awful.

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07-22-2006, 11:53 AM
  #41
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Quote:
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In fairness, I am the Judge.. you are correct. But in retrospect, how many soft goals did he give up too? A lot. And all of us can argue back and forth about this and that. But by the end of the day each player has a role and responsibility to play. He is paid to save the puck... Just like any other job sports or non-sports.No excuses.... because numbers don't lie... And a save percentage of .894% is really awful.
But numbers do lie. Look at Joe Corvo's +-.

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Old
07-22-2006, 11:59 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
That doesn't take into account the number of quality shots he was facing each night, though. Say he faced only 20 shots that were of high quality, but gave up 3 goals. That's a 3.00 GAA and an .850 SV% right there. Not very impressive numbers, but since they were difficult shots since the defense left him out to dry, those numbers are pretty misleading. For an example of inflated SV% because of defense, look no further than our old pal, Roman Chechmanek.
Here is an interesting stat. Check it out.

Garon:Shots allowed:1738 - GOALS allowed: Garon 185
Gerber: Shots allowed: 1719 Gerber: 162

Blame it allon the defense? That is a tough one... I thought I'd pass this info along. Really interesting..

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Old
07-22-2006, 12:02 PM
  #43
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But numbers do lie. Look at Joe Corvo's +-.
I have to check that out....

But compare Gerber's stats and Garon's? Have you seen it?

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Old
07-22-2006, 12:07 PM
  #44
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But numbers do lie. Look at Joe Corvo's +-.
In this life, there is always is an exception and Corvo is one of them. And on Garon's case, numbers did not lie. And the verdict stand

This court is adjourned

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Old
07-22-2006, 05:50 PM
  #45
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Here is an interesting stat. Check it out.

Garon:Shots allowed:1738 - GOALS allowed: Garon 185
Gerber: Shots allowed: 1719 Gerber: 162

Blame it allon the defense? That is a tough one... I thought I'd pass this info along. Really interesting..
You seem to have completely misunderstood Chazz's point. He's saying that Garon faced more shots of high quality than he should've, and, likely, more than most other goaltenders (Gerber included) did. Unfortunately, stats can't prove that, but they also can't disprove it, either.

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Old
07-22-2006, 07:32 PM
  #46
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
You seem to have completely misunderstood Chazz's point. He's saying that Garon faced more shots of high quality than he should've, and, likely, more than most other goaltenders (Gerber included) did. Unfortunately, stats can't prove that, but they also can't disprove it, either.
That's just about it. Arguably, Gerber had a better defense in front of him, so he faced less shots and less quality shots, and therefore had the better numbers. I'm not taking anything away from his solid season, I just think Garon could put up those type of numbers with a good defense in front of him. However, like Osprey said, it can't be proved one way or another.

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Old
07-23-2006, 12:54 AM
  #47
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That's just about it. Arguably, Gerber had a better defense in front of him, so he faced less shots and less quality shots, and therefore had the better numbers. I'm not taking anything away from his solid season, I just think Garon could put up those type of numbers with a good defense in front of him. However, like Osprey said, it can't be proved one way or another.
I guess that is really hard to prove either way... like I said about games that Garon gives up early soft goals and you're behind the 8 ball 2-0. So it puts your defense in an akward position from the start.

IMO... I really believe that our defense is not as bad as Carolina. Really... Glen Wesley? Oleg? Commodore a Duck and a Jersey reject... Kaberle, a journeyman.

But I understand and respect your point. It's really hard to prove either way

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Old
07-23-2006, 03:19 AM
  #48
Chazz Reinhold
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It's really hard to prove either way
I agree with you there. I'm one who believes the Kings improved their defense this offseason, so we'll see how Garon performs behind it when he gets his chance.

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Old
07-23-2006, 06:31 AM
  #49
I Am Ziggy Palffy
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i'd say a good (#1) goalie is one who helps a team win games....away with stats!!! how many times did we see Garon give up a goal in the 3rd period, and we just know another softy is soon to come....this guy has all the talent and ability in the world, and yet seriously lacks in mental toughness...he won us, or kept us close in many games last year which we had no business being a part of, but he also deflated our team countless times with consecutive bad goals at terrible times....

by the way, i'm a fan of Garon

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Old
07-24-2006, 05:21 PM
  #50
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Our defense couldn't stop **** at the end of the year.
THATS when a true #1 goalie "steals" games man.....when the other team is totally dominating the game, the offense is playing like crap, and the defense is nowhere to be found, a true #1 goalie WILL step his game up and-lo and behold- "steal" the game.

the term "steal a game" isnt really too difficult to understand man.

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