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Old
11-12-2003, 03:09 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
I stand by my Ahonen comments. He hasn't done jack in North America and his upside is slipping. A GAA over 3? A Save percentage under .900? With those numbers (and yes Jason, numbers are still a very fair gauge to use, even for goaltenders on teams who suck) he's not going to push his way onto an NHL roster any time soon. Add in his injury and there is reason why he's been passed. As for goaltenders (prospects) that I would take over Ahonen, start with Ray Emery, Ilya Bryzgalov, Ryan Miller, Maxime Ouellet, and Pascal Leclaire. Unfortunately I don't think those guys fit the bill for Calgary as they are not any further along than Sabourin. You like Ahonen, then keep him. He's your drive through window operator of the future.

As I've said, I just don't see a deal here. It doesn't make sense. I will say one thing about some of the players being bounced around. Gomez just ain't worth what people are asking. Small centers just don't have a lot of value (ask Mike Comrie and Rich Winter about that). Two way defensive guys do (ask John Madden and Fat Lou about that). In the big picture, if New Jersey decides they want to dump Gomez they will likely get a minimal return for him. The road map is littered with small centers that have been dealt over the past two or three years and they were all moved for next to nothing. Chew on that one for a while and come back with a solid defense of Gomez's value. Fat Lou may be a master at making the deal, but even he can't control what the market has been willing to give for a similar player.
how bout a calder and two rings in four seasons at 1mio salary??

Lanny, you probabely should add "Stupid" to your avater.

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Old
11-12-2003, 03:14 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Sled2300
Conroy and 3rd = Gomez and Foster
.


NJ probabely has to throw in Brodeur to even the deal??

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Old
11-12-2003, 03:28 AM
  #53
Badger Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike#16
I'd say conroy was a marginal 3rd liner in st. louis (11th in points/14,78toi in his last st. louis season) and is an important 1st/2nd liner in cal because the team is so weak.
A "marginal 3rd liner" becomes a Selke finalist?

Conroy would easily adapt to the Devils system, and fit into one of the top two lines as a two-way center. New Jersey doesn't exactly qualifty as "weak."

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Old
11-12-2003, 03:29 AM
  #54
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why don't we start an " i know more about hockey than you" thread. clearly there is a difference of opinion on what a possible trade would look like, but if the devils are serious about another cup they might gamble and sacrifice a gomez if they feel he's replaceable by a prospect in the organization. because as it stands now. the devils don't lose anything swapping gomez for conroy except age.

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Old
11-12-2003, 03:38 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Badger Bob
A "marginal 3rd liner" becomes a Selke finalist?

Conroy would easily adapt to the Devils system, and fit into one of the top two lines as a two-way center. New Jersey doesn't exactly qualifty as "weak."
he would fit in our 2nd line, yes but not at the cost of gomez! the "marginal 3rd liner" was in response of the "marginal 3rd liner" marshall is according to calgary fans. BTW, Marshall played last year on the first line of the stanley cup champ!

conroy for marshall straight up - take it or leave it

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Old
11-12-2003, 03:44 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by the future
why don't we start an " i know more about hockey than you" thread. clearly there is a difference of opinion on what a possible trade would look like, but if the devils are serious about another cup they might gamble and sacrifice a gomez if they feel he's replaceable by a prospect in the organization. because as it stands now. the devils don't lose anything swapping gomez for conroy except age.

allright, think now is time to stop this useless gomez/conroy discussion

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11-12-2003, 06:31 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike#16
he would fit in our 2nd line, yes but not at the cost of gomez! the "marginal 3rd liner" was in response of the "marginal 3rd liner" marshall is according to calgary fans. BTW, Marshall played last year on the first line of the stanley cup champ!

conroy for marshall straight up - take it or leave it
Take off the New Jersey blinders buddy. That is one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while. Grant Marshall is nowhere near what Conroy is. Go and watch a few Flames games and then tell me that. Who cares if Marshall played on the 1st line, it's not because he has that talent, it's called balancing out a line. Marshall is a marginal 3rd liner in my books. I'm not impressed with his play at all. Conroy is a legit 2nd line centre in the entire league, pretty much anyone would agree to that. To expect a deal of Marshall for Conroy straight up is just absurd. Classic homer post.

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Old
11-12-2003, 06:34 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike#16
I'd say conroy was a marginal 3rd liner in st. louis (11th in points/14,78toi in his last st. louis season) and is an important 1st/2nd liner in cal because the team is so weak. so conroy is a 1st line center by calgary standarts but not by NHL standarts. Marshall (4th in points/15,44toi in his last CBS season) is a 3rd line RW by NHL standarts, i.e. he would be at least a 2nd line RW by Calgary standarts.

IMO conroy and marshall have about the same value, same age, UFAs after the season, but conroy makes 600k more than marshall.

if gomez really is going to be traded they should go after comrie this guy is much more on the same level with gomez than conroy.
Hahaha, this is a great one. Conroy and Marshall have the same value, right. Selke candidates that can put up 50-75 points are definitely worth the same as 3rd liners like Marshall. I can see that reasoning. So can we say that Stephane Yelle is worth John Madden? Sounds about the same to me.

Conroy would be a legit 2nd line centre on pretty much any team in the league, not a 3rd liner. Obviously he's going to play 1st line on a weaker team, he would be the top centre, great logic there. Marshall would not be 2nd line on Calgary, he would be 3rd, maybe even 4th. Iginla and Kobasew would both be ahead of him and Donovan would likely be as well.

Take the blinders off buddy, your homerism is so obvious it isn't even funny.

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Old
11-12-2003, 07:17 AM
  #59
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Holy homerism, Batman. Marshall equal to Conroy? Did I miss something this season in New Jersey? Since when is a grinding 3rd liner worth a former Selke candidate? I know Conroy might have his value lessen due to his impending UFA status, but DAMN! That's just butt ugly. Grant Marshall was traded to New Jersey for a 'conditional' draft choice. Is Craig Conroy simply worth a 'conditional' draft choice, then?

A flawed, inconsistent arguement.

I'm not a fan of trading with New Jersey if Madden or Langenbrunner isn't coming back our way, but I think Craig Conroy and a middle-to-high round pick is more than enough for one Scott Gomez.

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Old
11-12-2003, 07:19 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Kritty
Hahaha, this is a great one. Conroy and Marshall have the same value, right. Selke candidates that can put up 50-75 points are definitely worth the same as 3rd liners like Marshall. I can see that reasoning. So can we say that Stephane Yelle is worth John Madden? Sounds about the same to me.

Conroy would be a legit 2nd line centre on pretty much any team in the league, not a 3rd liner. Obviously he's going to play 1st line on a weaker team, he would be the top centre, great logic there. Marshall would not be 2nd line on Calgary, he would be 3rd, maybe even 4th. Iginla and Kobasew would both be ahead of him and Donovan would likely be as well.

Take the blinders off buddy, your homerism is so obvious it isn't even funny.
yea right! marshall on the 4th in calgary and because of its incredible depth calgary is going to the finals year after year or do i mix up something?

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Old
11-12-2003, 07:43 AM
  #61
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Just wanted to throw this out, Lamoriello pulled a similar trade during the 1999-00 season:

Brian Rolston for Claude Lemieux, COL2, and the option to swap 1sts

- Like Conroy, Lemieux was an impending UFA
- Rolston was 26 (Gomez is 23) and was coming off a then career year (24-33-57)
- Trade was made partially due to the expansion draft that summer.
- NJ had greater prospect depth in those days

I personally wouldn't trade Gomez for Conroy and a pick based on the last factor. This has nothing to do with Conroy the player, but Madden is already set to be a UFA this summer. It would be tough to ink both of them and all we really have down the middle is Parise and Foster. Foster is a huge question mark, and I wouldn't want to count on Parise so soon.

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Old
11-12-2003, 09:31 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
You keep thinking that and you will have Conroy all for yourself.

Conroy and 2nd would be a littel generous but thats what it would take to get Gomez. We are the one in the drivers seat, you guys are trying to make the playoffs.
Fine, the Flames will keep him. I'd rather have Conroy for this year alone then Marshall and Ahonen for their careers. Take off the homer glasses NJ fans. Conroy is worth 3 Marshall's !! Ahonen is a decent goalie prospect but as said already, the Flames have Sabourin, Krahn & Medvedev (all three will be better goalies, especially Krahn & Medvedev).

You are not in the drivers seat as you say the Devils are. Why is that ?? The Flames don't want Gomez that bad (maybe not even at all), so tell me again why the Devils are in the drivers seat ?? The Flames will simply trade Conroy to another contender for more than that crappy package you offered. OMG, I cannot believe that you guys can even compare Marshall to Conroy even with your homer glasses on. That is absolutely pathetic. Sorry, but it really is. Either watch Conroy and see how good of a player he is or take of the homer glasses and you will see how bad Marshall is in comparison. I wasn't even going to bother as the Flames fans seem to be doing good enough job telling you how bad that offer really is, but I just had to ask what is going through your minds ?? SERIOUSLY !!!

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Old
11-12-2003, 09:42 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Conroy and 2nd would be a littel generous but thats what it would take to get Gomez. We are the one in the drivers seat, you guys are trying to make the playoffs.
You are? I seem tor recalling nothing about "Sutter has interest in Gomez." Rather, sources are telling us that "Lamoriello has interest in Conroy." Explain why you are in the drivers seat? If Calgary doesn't need to ship him out now, then there is no point. I am almost positive a team will be willing to give up a good package at the trade deadline, YOUR team included.

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Old
11-12-2003, 10:14 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
NJ doesn't need to ship Gomez out either, you are hearing stupid NYPost rumors that arn't true. How often is Everson (what ever his name is) right. He also reported NJ was trading Niedermayer...take this rumors with a grain of salt, I highly highly doubt anything happens between the two teams.
The Flames fans in Calgary did not get the rumor from the NYPost. It was from the Flames play by play man Peter Mahr who is one of the most respected commentators in the league. The rumor was that NJ was intertested in Conroy and that Sutter skipped the flames practice to make some phone calls. He speculated Gomez but it could have easily been White or Rupp or one of the NJ prospects coming up.

So the source is a respected person in the know of things. Far more in the know about what goes on then you could ever hope for.

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Old
11-12-2003, 10:33 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
You are? I seem tor recalling nothing about "Sutter has interest in Gomez." Rather, sources are telling us that "Lamoriello has interest in Conroy." Explain why you are in the drivers seat? If Calgary doesn't need to ship him out now, then there is no point. I am almost positive a team will be willing to give up a good package at the trade deadline, YOUR team included.
ozy i have to agree with you, the whole discussion is absolutely useless since in about 3 months once calgary is out of the playoff race for the 8th straight season, conroy can be picked up for next to nothing.
so why give up something now if you dont have to?

actually, this is a new record amongst the active franchises! - congrats!

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Old
11-12-2003, 10:35 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Sled2300
The Flames fans in Calgary did not get the rumor from the NYPost. It was from the Flames play by play man Peter Mahr who is one of the most respected commentators in the league. The rumor was that NJ was intertested in Conroy and that Sutter skipped the flames practice to make some phone calls. He speculated Gomez but it could have easily been White or Rupp or one of the NJ prospects coming up.

So the source is a respected person in the know of things. Far more in the know about what goes on then you could ever hope for.
Gomes is very overrated. He averages 45 points himself. That's 4 years of his young career. He has done nothing since his rookie year.

Conroy is the better player today, but the age and salaries make them worth about the same. The Flames might have to throw in a mid round pick. That's all. Gomes is not a star player. Actually he has been nothing short of dissapointment so far.

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Old
11-12-2003, 10:37 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Sled2300
The Flames fans in Calgary did not get the rumor from the NYPost. It was from the Flames play by play man Peter Mahr who is one of the most respected commentators in the league. The rumor was that NJ was intertested in Conroy and that Sutter skipped the flames practice to make some phone calls. He speculated Gomez but it could have easily been White or Rupp or one of the NJ prospects coming up.

So the source is a respected person in the know of things. Far more in the know about what goes on then you could ever hope for.
you mean the guy is respected in alberta, right? hes also a respected person in the know of cows, right?

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11-12-2003, 10:40 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Mike#16
ozy i have to agree with you, the whole discussion is absolutely useless since in about 3 months once calgary is out of the playoff race for the 8th straight season, conroy can be picked up for next to nothing.
so why give up something now if you dont have to?

actually, this is a new record amongst the active franchises! - congrats!
Because all UFAs to be are traded for next to nothing, right?

Silly, silly thing to say.

I actually think that Sutter should spread rumors about Philly or Ottawa looking at Conroy so that fat Luo would jump the gun and overpay just so that other eastern playoff teams don't get him.

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11-12-2003, 10:46 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CupBound
Gomes is very overrated. He averages 45 points himself. That's 4 years of his young career. He has done nothing since his rookie year.

Conroy is the better player today, but the age and salaries make them worth about the same. The Flames might have to throw in a mid round pick. That's all. Gomes is not a star player. Actually he has been nothing short of dissapointment so far.
you call a calder and two cup rings in four years a dissapointment?
Wow! you've got pretty high standarts!

BTW, with 23 years, conroy had 6 NHL games with the canadians under his belt - pretty impressive!!

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11-12-2003, 10:48 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupBound
Gomes is very overrated. He averages 45 points himself. That's 4 years of his young career. He has done nothing since his rookie year.

Conroy is the better player today, but the age and salaries make them worth about the same. The Flames might have to throw in a mid round pick. That's all. Gomes is not a star player. Actually he has been nothing short of dissapointment so far.
Have to ever even seen Gomez play? I assume not, because of how you misspell his last name. Gomez has actually the 3rd most points from his draft class ... ahead of people such as David Legwand, Simone Gagne and Brad Richards. Lets not forget that all of this was on the deffensive first Devils either. To say he dosnt produce or is overrated is crazy.

On to Conroy; I could deffinatly see Lou being intrested there. Lou has always seemed to like the 2 strong defensive centers and has never been afraid of taking on ufas. He could always trade for a player like Perrault (as it has also been rumoured) if the Devils offense dies afterwards.

As a side thought: anyone remember those Comrie to calgary in a 3 way rumours? Anyone see something happening with Comrie/Gomez/Conroy?

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Old
11-12-2003, 10:52 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Mike#16
you mean the guy is respected in alberta, right? hes also a respected person in the know of cows, right?
what the hell does that mean?? that there aren't any respected hockey people in Alberta? ooookay

look I for one don't think that Conroy alone has enough trade value to get Gomez, I think most Flames fans see that actually, but to imply that there aren't hockey people in Alberta who are respected league wide...whatever

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11-12-2003, 10:52 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by CupBound
Because all UFAs to be are traded for next to nothing, right?

Silly, silly thing to say.

I actually think that Sutter should spread rumors about Philly or Ottawa looking at Conroy so that fat Luo would jump the gun and overpay just so that other eastern playoff teams don't get him.
thats exactly the reason why lou was also in the bidding war last deadline for Amonte and Nolan
you should know by now that lou isnt that dumb

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11-12-2003, 10:57 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by looooob
what the hell does that mean?? that there aren't any respected hockey people in Alberta? ooookay

look I for one don't think that Conroy alone has enough trade value to get Gomez, I think most Flames fans see that actually, but to imply that there aren't hockey people in Alberta who are respected league wide...whatever
Sorry, went to far on that one.

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11-12-2003, 11:03 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Mike#16
you mean the guy is respected in alberta, right? hes also a respected person in the know of cows, right?
New avatar for you.

"I'm a devil homer, I'm a devil homer"

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Old
11-12-2003, 11:09 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by devildan
Have to ever even seen Gomez play? I assume not, because of how you misspell his last name. Gomez has actually the 3rd most points from his draft class ... ahead of people such as David Legwand, Simone Gagne and Brad Richards. Lets not forget that all of this was on the deffensive first Devils either. To say he dosnt produce or is overrated is crazy.

On to Conroy; I could deffinatly see Lou being intrested there. Lou has always seemed to like the 2 strong defensive centers and has never been afraid of taking on ufas. He could always trade for a player like Perrault (as it has also been rumoured) if the Devils offense dies afterwards.

As a side thought: anyone remember those Comrie to calgary in a 3 way rumours? Anyone see something happening with Comrie/Gomez/Conroy?
I'd rather see lou trading gomez for comrie than this old fart conroy who peaked out last season with iginla and is on the downside since. actually calgary fans call conroy an impact player. i cant see that. before conroy was delt to calgary they missed the playoffs and with him they missed the playoffs too so where is the difference?

comrie really impressed me the way he stepped up once weight was delt and he will cost half the price salarywise conroy does!

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