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11-10-2003, 03:13 PM
  #1
NYR1084
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Jason Ward

Hey

I was reading a little background information on Jason Ward. The guy is now considered by some a ''reach'', although at the time of 1997 draft he was considered a steal. I understand he has struggled with injuries, but he has yet to play a full season with the Habs. Granted, the guy has potential (look at his first ever goal against Richter), but the time comes when the potential runs out. Also, he was playing with the Habs in the beginning of the season, but now he is yet again injured.

Have you guys given up hope on him, or are you still waiting for him to become a producer for the Habs, as predicted he would be in 97?

Personally, I hope he comes back and avoids further injuries to become a regular on the Habs roster, but I mean 6 years to prove yourself is a long time. But I guess only time will tell, and Im curious as to what you guys think.

Take it easy

Kev

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11-10-2003, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabFan1084
Hey

I was reading a little background information on Jason Ward. The guy is now considered by some a ''reach'', although at the time of 1997 draft he was considered a steal. I understand he has struggled with injuries, but he has yet to play a full season with the Habs. Granted, the guy has potential (look at his first ever goal against Richter), but the time comes when the potential runs out. Also, he was playing with the Habs in the beginning of the season, but now he is yet again injured.

Have you guys given up hope on him, or are you still waiting for him to become a producer for the Habs, as predicted he would be in 97?

Personally, I hope he comes back and avoids further injuries to become a regular on the Habs roster, but I mean 6 years to prove yourself is a long time. But I guess only time will tell, and Im curious as to what you guys think.

Take it easy

Kev
He can't skate, and he has limited skills. Realistically, he wouldn't be playing on any other NHL team at this point in his career.

I like Ward, but ... I'm not sure if he will have a long tenure in the NHL.

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11-10-2003, 03:21 PM
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Ward is a tough call. I never ever though he would play in the NHL, cause his skating was so bad. He looked like he was skating with bricks tied to his feet. It was really bad. But he must have worked very very hard on improving him skating/speed. I think it's really great that he has come this far, and I'm rooting for him all the way. But I fear his skating will continue to give him problems in the NHL. He's a guy that works hard every shift, and has decent hands, plus is good along the board and in corners. He's only going to get better, but how much better is the tough question. I think his skating will hold him back off the top lines, for now, but who knows what he can do in the future.

Guys like Ward and Ryder are tough to guage, cause their hard work pushes them further and further then expected, and that's great to seee.

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11-10-2003, 03:43 PM
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I think his skating has improved to the point where it's not an issue. He also has good hands.

The misconception about him is that he is a big guy. He is tall, but he's on the light side.

If given a chance to show off his hands, who knows what we've got? He'll get his chance at some point on the scoring lines after he gets some games under his belt.

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11-10-2003, 04:10 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I think his skating has improved to the point where it's not an issue. He also has good hands.

The misconception about him is that he is a big guy. He is tall, but he's on the light side.

If given a chance to show off his hands, who knows what we've got? He'll get his chance at some point on the scoring lines after he gets some games under his belt.

I disagree. I think his skating will continue to be an issue. He's gotten much much better, but it stil holds him back, IMO. When he gets it going, he's ok, but I think his lack of skating is exposed in quick up tempo games especially when cycling the puck.

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11-10-2003, 04:22 PM
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skating is an issue

watch Ward skate then watch anyone else on the team, he might be faster than some players, but the other ones skate better, that includes turning, stopping, just plain skating

i like him too though, the work ethic is always there which is what you need, i love to watch players who give an effort every second they're on the ice

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11-10-2003, 05:30 PM
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I tend to agree with raketheleaves, I think Ward's skating is not a problem anymore. Sure, he's not the fastest out there, but he can still play with the pros and can even make some good plays and some breakaways (believe it or not I'm sure he can )

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11-10-2003, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahan
I tend to agree with raketheleaves, I think Ward's skating is not a problem anymore. Sure, he's not the fastest out there, but he can still play with the pros and can even make some good plays and some breakaways (believe it or not I'm sure he can )
Ward is always unfortunate... He got bad luck injuries everytime the things seems to be better for him..

But he'll rebounds... Agains.....

I think he'll be a 15 goals scorer/30 pts man in the 3rd line if well-used...

I hoping to see Ward with us very soon....

He is an example... That's for sure...

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11-10-2003, 06:22 PM
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Well, I mean to say it's not an issue if he keeps improving at this rate. Maybe he should get the number of Sheldon's skating coach, eh?

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11-10-2003, 06:23 PM
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ward work ethic is INCREDIBLE !!
but he's a very poor skater ... :mad:
if he was a better skater i think he would have a better career in the nhl.. but he don't have 2nd line speed..
IMO he would be a very useful 4th liner with 3rd line upside...

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11-10-2003, 06:34 PM
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i saw ward play a few times the past few years and i know one thing he likes to finish his checks. he is big but he also plays big cause he doesn't shy away from the rough stuff, and that could be a factor to why he gets hurt so much ie: koivu.

thats why he'll be an effective 4th liner who can put the puck in the net at least in the ahl, for a few years

could someone tell me if this is true on a nightly basis so my opinion may or may not change of him

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11-10-2003, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
He can't skate, and he has limited skills. Realistically, he wouldn't be playing on any other NHL team at this point in his career.

I like Ward, but ... I'm not sure if he will have a long tenure in the NHL.
Have you been watching Ward play? ...Last year he was absolutly dominant in the AHL...and he has played an effective game thus far...he's a solid hitter...and positions himself well...Not a horrible skater...just painful to watch!!! ....He has a great shot/ and great vision as well!!! ...and trust me...if you were to put him on waivers...there would be many teams willing to take him of our hands!!!

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11-10-2003, 06:49 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunk World Order
Have you been watching Ward play? ...Last year he was absolutly dominant in the AHL...and he has played an effective game thus far...he's a solid hitter...and positions himself well...Not a horrible skater...just painful to watch!!! ....He has a great shot/ and great vision as well!!! ...and trust me...if you were to put him on waivers...there would be many teams willing to take him of our hands!!!
The AHL is full of playmakers, and goal scorers. It rarely translates to an NHL career.

The list is long and distinguished. Every NHL team has players who thrive in the AHL, but cannot bring the same game to the NHL.

We don't have to look far to see examples in our own system, from years gone by.

Gilbert Dionne, Belanger... etc.. all lit it up in the AHL.

Again, I like Ward.. but he wouldn't make 98% of the other NHL teams out there.

I'm certain of it.

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11-10-2003, 06:57 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
The AHL is full of playmakers, and goal scorers. It rarely translates to an NHL career.

The list is long and distinguished. Every NHL team has players who thrive in the AHL, but cannot bring the same game to the NHL.

We don't have to look far to see examples in our own system, from years gone by.

Gilbert Dionne, Belanger... etc.. all lit it up in the AHL.

Again, I like Ward.. but he wouldn't make 98% of the other NHL teams out there.

I'm certain of it.
I have to disagree ..
ward intensity .. and work ethic is enough to motivate your players and help them to give all they can for the team ..
Ward is Important for us (on the 4th line)
IMO we have a real nice 4th line with Ward/Kilger - Begin - Langdon

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11-10-2003, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
The AHL is full of playmakers, and goal scorers. It rarely translates to an NHL career.

The list is long and distinguished. Every NHL team has players who thrive in the AHL, but cannot bring the same game to the NHL.

We don't have to look far to see examples in our own system, from years gone by.

Gilbert Dionne, Belanger... etc.. all lit it up in the AHL.

Again, I like Ward.. but he wouldn't make 98% of the other NHL teams out there.

I'm certain of it.
I have to disagree...Ward brings more that you think!!!...and is better that alot of other players who currently play on a regular basis...he's not gonna be able to show that however...due to playing limited time on the fourth line...

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11-10-2003, 08:06 PM
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Quite honestly I'll be shocked if, after he recovers, there's any space for him left with the squad. Sure he works hard, but he has an AHL-skill set and his skating is atrocious.

Anyone who thinks he's an NHL-quality skater really needs to take a good long look at him. Sure, he can skate fairly quickly in a straight line, but his crossover turns are horrid and his footspeed makes Ribeiro look like he has dancing feet. His lateral movements are weak, at best, and if he tried to do anything drastic on skates he usually ends up on his butt.

We too much better talent than him, despite the fact that he can shoot. Remember Michel Picard? There was another who was about the same... Great in the AHL, leads the league in offence, in fact, but he couldn't make it in the NHL except as an injury replacement on any team.

Fact is, the only reason he plays in the NHL at all is that he's with the Habs and they need players who work hard.

I'd say there's a very high probability that he's seen his last NHL game.

A concerned fan.

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11-10-2003, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy!
Quite honestly I'll be shocked if, after he recovers, there's any space for him left with the squad. Sure he works hard, but he has an AHL-skill set and his skating is atrocious.

Anyone who thinks he's an NHL-quality skater really needs to take a good long look at him. Sure, he can skate fairly quickly in a straight line, but his crossover turns are horrid and his footspeed makes Ribeiro look like he has dancing feet. His lateral movements are weak, at best, and if he tried to do anything drastic on skates he usually ends up on his butt.

We too much better talent than him, despite the fact that he can shoot. Remember Michel Picard? There was another who was about the same... Great in the AHL, leads the league in offence, in fact, but he couldn't make it in the NHL except as an injury replacement on any team.

Fact is, the only reason he plays in the NHL at all is that he's with the Habs and they need players who work hard.

I'd say there's a very high probability that he's seen his last NHL game.

A concerned fan.

I think he has a strong work ethic, has matured considerably and is now a young leader. Also, he's one of the three guys that Gainey mentioned when he first came to the team. He's definitely a Gainey player.

Why would we give up on a young player after he has shown such promise? There's no way. He'll see plenty of minutes when he returns.

Timmons said the Habs want players that have sense, quickness and character. I think Ward fits the bill right now for a 4th line job, his lateral movement might not be sufficient for a checking line role, but that doesn't rule him out from the second line. All you have to do there is score. Zednik is on a scoring line and he has no hockey sense whatsoever, so I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Ward.

We have many lumps of coal and we have to keep polishing and be patient!

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11-11-2003, 03:20 AM
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Guy, if I was to list the posters whose ability to analyze players I respect,you would rank pretty high. That being said I consistently disagree with your thoughts on Ward. I won't argue your analysis of his skills point by point because you are right. I think Ward is one of those players however, whose sum is more than the addition of his skills. There are certain players that seem to create a positive energy on the ice. Good things seem to happen around them. To me, he's the type of player who'll get a goal and assist but leave you thinking about how awkward he looked doing it. In response to the original question from Hab fan 1084, Ward's skating delayed him along with the fact that he seemed to get injured every time he made some progress.

If nothing else, he is probably our player best suited to creating traffic and burying rebounds on the PP. Despite his skating, CJ seems to trust him on the penalty kill.

The comparisons are a bit of a reach but the Habs have had many players over the years whose skills were suspect, but delivered valuable contributions. Guys like Tremblay,Lambert,McPhee and Skrudland come to mind. I do admit that taking him in the first round was a reach, it seems that character can be drafted a little lower, but what do I know.

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11-11-2003, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Guy, if I was to list the posters whose ability to analyze players I respect,you would rank pretty high. That being said I consistently disagree with your thoughts on Ward. I won't argue your analysis of his skills point by point because you are right. I think Ward is one of those players however, whose sum is more than the addition of his skills. There are certain players that seem to create a positive energy on the ice. Good things seem to happen around them. To me, he's the type of player who'll get a goal and assist but leave you thinking about how awkward he looked doing it. In response to the original question from Hab fan 1084, Ward's skating delayed him along with the fact that he seemed to get injured every time he made some progress.

If nothing else, he is probably our player best suited to creating traffic and burying rebounds on the PP. Despite his skating, CJ seems to trust him on the penalty kill.

The comparisons are a bit of a reach but the Habs have had many players over the years whose skills were suspect, but delivered valuable contributions. Guys like Tremblay,Lambert,McPhee and Skrudland come to mind. I do admit that taking him in the first round was a reach, it seems that character can be drafted a little lower, but what do I know.
Great post as usual!

I like Ward a lot and think he has a future in the NHL. His skating is well below average, and this hinders his work as a grinder in that he's not able to deliver or receive big hits without falling. Nor can he turn all that well,

However, Ward does have the speed to compete in the league. He's proven to be useful on the PK. He's proven to be strong defensively and won't hurt the team when he's on the ice. He brings energy, and as you stated: good things tend to happen around him. He makes things happen, plays with authority and confidence, and while he'll never be anything more than a plugger (in my mind), he'll be a quality character player.

On a team that is severely lacking an identity and character players--both on the big club and in the system--Ward has a role.

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11-11-2003, 06:37 AM
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This should have been turned into a poll, since there are a good number of contrasting posters.
I think this guy has a career in the NHL. 10 chances to 1 it'll be as a 3rd or 4th liner, but it's still a career. He may have limited skills, but he works so hard with what he has, that he's a much better player than his skills would indicate.
As far as saying that good things happen around him, I'd say that's a bit of a reach (how many times has this guy been injured on the ice).
The only thing that keeps him with the Habs is his hard working nature. With that being said, he will still improve a bit, and hopefully be able to stick with the big club based on skills alone, and having his hard work as a bonus.

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11-11-2003, 08:32 AM
  #21
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Ward defenitely has a spot on this team. Our 4th line never looked as good in recent memory than the actual (before his injury) Langdon - Begin - Ward combo. Also, Ward is a player that earned the trust of CJ in the minors. He will be back in the lineup with priority given over any marginal role players like Sundstrom or Dackell when his ankle is healed.

I've always thought that the jury was still out on Ward as to where he'll fit in with this team in the future. However, I never questioned the basic fact that he does fit. He could be anything between a poor man's Eric Cole on a scoring line to a slightly improved Turner Stevenson in a checking role. He has the defensive flair, the energy and the drive to do so. He's not one-dimentional and can help the team in a various array of roles.

Right now, he fits best on the 4th line. If he continues to adapt to the faster pace and improve his agility (could be with power skating lessons during the summer, bulking up would also help), he could move up in the depth chart as a permanent 3rd line checker and PK specialist, and even maybe more, if our scoring prospects take longer than expected to develop. He could then be put on a scoring line in a supporting role, a bit like Asham did last year on the 1st line, by creating space on the ice for our small forwards and generating some momentum changing energy.

In all, Ward is the kind of players I choose for building this team from the bottom up over any soft checker (Juneau, Dackell, Sundstrom) we presently have.

My ideal starting lineup by the end of the year:

Zednik - Koivu - Audette ( )
Hossa - Plekanec/Higgins - Ryder
Bulis - Kilger - Sundstrom
Langdon - Begin - Ward
Dackell

Souray - Quintal
Markov - Komisarek
Hainsey - Brisebois
Bouillon

traded: Rivet, Perreault, Ribeiro

Also like mentioned on the trading board, if we could get an other fairly young vet in Ward's mold to help ease in the youth, like for example, Mike Grier for Rivet, Ribeiro and a 2nd, I'd be all up for it.

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11-11-2003, 08:36 AM
  #22
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Where are the guys who thought he'd score 51pts. this year?!! Plekanec?!!

Anyways, you guys tend to put alot of work into bashing players. Ward's skating is below average, but it's not horrible. He complete's his checks, and reads the play very well (probably his best asset)... this allows him position himself well defensively, and gain scoring opportunities. IMO, Ward is an excellent 4th liner and a good 3rd liner in the NHL.

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11-11-2003, 08:39 AM
  #23
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I'm not a Canadiens fan, per se, so I don't see as many of their games as some of you here on these boards do. However, from watching Ward, he reminds me a whole lot of a guy you used to have and now kills you every time he plays you - John LeClair. LeClair is far from a great skater and in general looks incredibly awkward anytime he has the puck on his stick and is trying to stickhandle. However, LeClair is a perfect example of a guy who was (in his prime) much more than the sum of his parts. Will Ward ever score 50 goals in the NHL? I highly doubt it. However, the possibility that he will turn into a solid, regular player in the NHL who averages 10-15 goals a year but might have that 25 goal season once or twice, is not that much of a reach.

Brian

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11-11-2003, 08:52 AM
  #24
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Is skating is the only thing holding him back, I still remember him at the WJC I thought he was a bust back then he was the slowest player on the ice espacially is first few step.

The thing that Ward has improve is his positionning, the way move and he cut the ice help me overcome his weak accelaration, but that only allow him to play in the NHL. He has good hand around the net for the type of player he is and style of game he play. If he could improve his foot speed and add a few pound would be a legit 2nd line player.

His work ethic and attitude is great but I don't know if he can over come the skating issue. I like to see him do it.


sorry about my english

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11-11-2003, 09:25 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediator88
I'm not a Canadiens fan, per se, so I don't see as many of their games as some of you here on these boards do. However, from watching Ward, he reminds me a whole lot of a guy you used to have and now kills you every time he plays you - John LeClair. LeClair is far from a great skater and in general looks incredibly awkward anytime he has the puck on his stick and is trying to stickhandle. However, LeClair is a perfect example of a guy who was (in his prime) much more than the sum of his parts. Will Ward ever score 50 goals in the NHL? I highly doubt it. However, the possibility that he will turn into a solid, regular player in the NHL who averages 10-15 goals a year but might have that 25 goal season once or twice, is not that much of a reach.

Brian
He's about thirty pounds lighter than Leclair though. This is the main misunderstanding with Ward, that he is a big brute who will crush people on the boards. He's only 6-3, 200 lbs! Even Hainsey is bigger than him. 200 pounds is average by today's standards.

He does have those good hands tho and he's shown he can be hungry. He has faded in long stretches of play this year, much like Kilger has done in the past, so you know he wants scoring line minutes.

There have been plenty of poor skaters that have put up good numbers. I wouldn't say he's a Mike Bossy or Ray Sheppard even, but he might have some Dave Andreychuk in him even though he is much smaller!

His hockey sense is underrated, but he can't carry the puck for **** and his creativity is hampered by his skating. He's a good passer though and has good hands in close and looks like a scorer around the net down low. Why we focus on an obvious playmaker like Hossa and not on a guy who wants to focus on scoring is beyond me.

But they are young and Julien has a challenge finding them minutes.

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