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Intresting article about Ryders Arbitration

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Old
07-21-2006, 10:31 PM
  #1
33Roy33
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Intresting article about Ryders Arbitration

http://www.thetelegram.com/

The sports article on the main page has a very intresting look at Ryder's arbitration. It basically says that if the Habs are willing to pay Ribiero 1.9mill then they should be willing to pay Ryder 2-2.5mill. It also questions if the Habs will retain Ryder if the arbitration does not rule in fabor of the Habs. Very intresting look, in a very Pro-Ryder opinion.

Thoughts??

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07-21-2006, 10:37 PM
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HockeyPeriod
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Very pro-Ryder and oddly enough is dated for tomorrow July 22nd...

Edit: Just noticed that the article is probably from Newfoundland so I guess it is tomorrow there, which also explains the pro-Ryder stance

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07-21-2006, 10:43 PM
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Certainly if Ribeiro gets 1.9, Ryder gets atleast the same and should be more near 2.5. Honestly, why is it taking so long? Defensive lapses aside, 25 goals, 30 goals. Do we see Ribs on the PK or something? Just frickin' sign him already- he's important to the team, it'll be for 1 year anyways before going through it all again.

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07-21-2006, 10:48 PM
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They go too far about Ribeiro and make the whole article less credible in my eyes. They could have done a much better job if they kept comparing both #. But the NJ connection is interesting and make up for an ideal trade proposal. I don't see why Ryder's agent Thane Campbell ( same as Cheechoo and Williams) can't get a deal done with Bob Gainey , he seem very resonable in his contract demands. I hope he isin't low-balling him after handing out the silver plate to Ribeiro.

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07-21-2006, 10:51 PM
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Why is nobody mentioning the most intriguing part of the article: the possibility of him being traded to NJ as part of a Gomez deal! Sure it's mere speculation but its the first time a rumor like this has been mentioned in the media and not from some wishful fans on a message board.
Anyways, good read, thanks.

*edit* damn the guy above me for posting mere seconds before I did, rendering my NJ comment useless@!!!

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07-21-2006, 10:52 PM
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Turbo
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If the Habs end up needing to move Ryder because he gets awarded a high salary, they why would this journalist suggest NJ/Julien would be a likely destination?

Makes absolutely no sense. If Ryder's salary is too high for the Habs, then Gomez's will be even more so. Plus it's unlikely NJ can even handle the 2.5M or so Ryder would get without even counting the potential Gomez or Gionta salaries. Montreal - NJ could not be trade partners on this, unless more salary is also dumped somewhere.

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07-21-2006, 11:16 PM
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paddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
If the Habs end up needing to move Ryder because he gets awarded a high salary, they why would this journalist suggest NJ/Julien would be a likely destination?

Makes absolutely no sense. If Ryder's salary is too high for the Habs, then Gomez's will be even more so. Plus it's unlikely NJ can even handle the 2.5M or so Ryder would get without even counting the potential Gomez or Gionta salaries. Montreal - NJ could not be trade partners on this, unless more salary is also dumped somewhere.
Well, suppose Gomez gets $5M, and Ryder gets $2.5M. If MTL trades for Gomez, then they have to dump Ribeiro and his $1.9M.

$2.5 + $1.9 = $4.4M : so yes, MTL would be able to take on Gomez's salary.
NJ offered Gomez a $4M deal, so yes they would be able to make Ryder's $2.5M fit.

But regardless, NJ would never trade Gomez to the Habs. IF he's traded, it'll be to a western team.

That being said, I still think that Gomez is one of the premier centers in this league and I would even take him over Brad Richards.

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07-21-2006, 11:25 PM
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Yeah I think the bit about Ribeiro being lazy and playing scared was an unnecessary pot-shot...yeah Ryder definitely deserves more than Ribeiro, but no need to take it out on him.

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07-21-2006, 11:35 PM
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The article does have some truth to it. Ryder does not get enough respect from media and fans. In his first season he scored 25 and in his second 30 goals. Thats a great achivement. If Perezhogin scored that he would considered a elite forward in the making. He should get a 2.2 to 2.5mil per year.

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07-22-2006, 12:26 AM
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I would be happy if Ryder signed for 3 years 6.85 million.

He forsure deserves more then Ribeiro....
He did score 25 and then 30 and if thouse rumours about that back problem are true that he suffered all tihs year we may see Ryder even better next season if he can return to his more physical self!

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07-22-2006, 12:27 AM
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I expect Ryder to get around $2.5M and I'll be happy with that... if it's long-term. I want him here for the long term... the kid's gonna be in his 3rd season and he has the ability to be a solid first-liner. Frankly, I don't know if I'd deal him for Gomez.

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07-22-2006, 12:35 AM
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I think the article makes a good point and it's the same thing I thought when I heard Ribs got 1.9M, which I still don't get why he got such a big raise. After hearing he got 1.9, I thought that means Ryder gets 2+ I don't see how Ribeiro can get an 800K almost double his salary, but since he did then Ryder should get the 2.1+ that's been rumored. I hope to see him signed under 2.5M, which imo is still too much. I just don't think either Ribs or Ryder should be making so much, I was hoping something more like 1.4 for Ribs, 1.8 for Ryder, oh well.

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07-22-2006, 07:17 AM
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Marc the Habs Fan
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A couple of weeks ago there was talk in La Presse that both sides were 500 K apart, and it was believed the habs were offering 2 M. So there's really no use constantly bringing up Ribs, the habs have already made it clear they feel Ryder is worth more. There's no way they are going to walk away from a 2.5 M award.

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07-22-2006, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy View Post
Well, suppose Gomez gets $5M, and Ryder gets $2.5M. If MTL trades for Gomez, then they have to dump Ribeiro and his $1.9M.

$2.5 + $1.9 = $4.4M : so yes, MTL would be able to take on Gomez's salary.
NJ offered Gomez a $4M deal, so yes they would be able to make Ryder's $2.5M fit.

But regardless, NJ would never trade Gomez to the Habs. IF he's traded, it'll be to a western team.

That being said, I still think that Gomez is one of the premier centers in this league and I would even take him over Brad Richards.

True, Montreal could probably squeeze Gomez in if they make some minor salary dump.

NJ however actually have no room for anyone, much less Gomez at 4M. Last I checked, they were over the salary cap with only 18 skaters signed. They had to rid themselves of about 2.5M of salary in 1 player so they could fill the roster with about 5 players at minimum wage (we had a thread on this last week, I don't remember the exact figures so these are ballpark).

They therefore could also not afford Ryder, even if his salary is 1.5M less than Gomez. Note that these figures are also without Gionta, so they have no room for him as well. They need to do some major dumping at this point and because they're desperate, I don't even think it would cost Ryder to land Gomez or Gionta (unless the deal is sweetened of course).

What Lou really wants though is to dump Mogilny's salary along with Gomez; that would create the cap room for Gionta. But Gainey and most GMs will never bite for anything including Mogilny. That said, look for teams that need to fill-out their minimum salary floor as a trade partner with NJ, as they might bite.

I'd love for the Habs to land Gomez but the chances are very low I think - and as you say, Lou will likely first look to dump him in the West anyway.


Last edited by Turbo: 07-22-2006 at 08:00 AM.
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Old
07-22-2006, 07:58 AM
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Yes Ryder might get his 2.5, and realy thats alright.
BUT, remember this about goal scorers.
If you play on the PP, just by being there you get extra goals.
If you play on the 1st line, just by being there you get extra goals.
You can be a good finisher only and get 25-30 goals.
Pull Ryder off the PP and that 1st line and what is he realy?

He is not a top tier, 1st liner.
Those will create thier own space and create great plays for the other guys on his line, along with a constant ability to score 30+ himself.
Dont forget the speed needed and the tenacity both ways needed to realy be a top tier.

so Is he worth 2.5, well right now for the Habs yes, but right now being an issue.

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07-22-2006, 08:19 AM
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Notice how Gainey has signed most of our first year RFAs to their QOs? Gainey has a system in place for making the kids's salaries grow a little at a time until they start approaching UFA status. Ryder has never wanted to play ball with Gainey on this. After his first season, he refused his QO. Now after his 2nd second season, he wants to make the same amount as guys like Rivet and Souray. He's quickly pricing himself out of our salary structure. This can have ripple effects throughout the roster. All of a sudden, all the kids' agents will demand more money for 1st and 2nd year players. That will take away from our ability to sign UFAs.

The comparisons to Ribeiro are also out of wack considering he's played in parts of six seasons with the Habs, while Ryder has only played in two. Time served in the minors shouldn't count towards your NHL salary...

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07-22-2006, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy View Post
Well, suppose Gomez gets $5M, and Ryder gets $2.5M. If MTL trades for Gomez, then they have to dump Ribeiro and his $1.9M.

$2.5 + $1.9 = $4.4M : so yes, MTL would be able to take on Gomez's salary.
NJ offered Gomez a $4M deal, so yes they would be able to make Ryder's $2.5M fit.

But regardless, NJ would never trade Gomez to the Habs. IF he's traded, it'll be to a western team.

That being said, I still think that Gomez is one of the premier centers in this league and I would even take him over Brad Richards.
I agree with the most part of your comments but over Brad Richards? I mean if we're including salaries, and if your talking value to salary earned, I think then yes I would take Gomez but overall Richards is more skillful.

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07-22-2006, 09:37 AM
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article had some truth but imo too much personal opinion, lacked professionalism

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07-22-2006, 10:30 AM
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I love how the big story in the paper today is the resurfacing of a street.

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07-22-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
If the Habs end up needing to move Ryder because he gets awarded a high salary, they why would this journalist suggest NJ/Julien would be a likely destination?

Makes absolutely no sense. If Ryder's salary is too high for the Habs, then Gomez's will be even more so. Plus it's unlikely NJ can even handle the 2.5M or so Ryder would get without even counting the potential Gomez or Gionta salaries. Montreal - NJ could not be trade partners on this, unless more salary is also dumped somewhere.
As also stated in the article that Ryder's contract would make 25 NHL contracts and the team can only carry 23. NJ only has 18 contracts (according to TSN.ca) signed so they'll be looking for multi-player trades in their favor that could save them a few dollars (e.g. Ryder, Ribeiro -- Gomez, +). Both Bob and Lou will be making more trades before the beginning of the season.

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07-22-2006, 10:48 AM
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paddy
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Originally Posted by dude_guy9 View Post
I agree with the most part of your comments but over Brad Richards? I mean if we're including salaries, and if your talking value to salary earned, I think then yes I would take Gomez but overall Richards is more skillful.
Gomez is a little underrated and Richards is a little overrated IMO. I don't believe Richards is more skillful though... If you take salary into the equation though, I would take Gomez without blinking.

Anyways, that makes for another debate...

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07-22-2006, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy View Post
Well, suppose Gomez gets $5M, and Ryder gets $2.5M. If MTL trades for Gomez, then they have to dump Ribeiro and his $1.9M.

$2.5 + $1.9 = $4.4M : so yes, MTL would be able to take on Gomez's salary.
NJ offered Gomez a $4M deal, so yes they would be able to make Ryder's $2.5M fit.

But regardless, NJ would never trade Gomez to the Habs. IF he's traded, it'll be to a western team.

That being said, I still think that Gomez is one of the premier centers in this league and I would even take him over Brad Richards.
oilers traded pronger to the ducks
avs traded tanguay to a conference rival in the flames.
Good gm's worry about their own team, not the competition.
if the best offer from the west is mark parrish, do you think the devils would opt to trade gomez to the kings with ryder still on the table because they're afraid of the habs?

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07-22-2006, 03:30 PM
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JMMR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
oilers traded pronger to the ducks
avs traded tanguay to a conference rival in the flames.
Good gm's worry about their own team, not the competition.
if the best offer from the west is mark parrish, do you think the devils would opt to trade gomez to the kings with ryder still on the table because they're afraid of the habs?
The Devils will never fear the Habs as long as they have Brodeur and he will be there for a few more years. Lou could have signed elias and gomez each for a million and traded them to the Habs for Sundstrom and Bulis and the Devils would still win the season series with the Habs for the next 4 or 5 years.

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07-22-2006, 05:06 PM
  #24
Markov79
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I hate when people use one player's salary to justify another. One bad signing does not mean that the going rate for similar players jumps accordingly. It will be interesting to see how arbiration goes. Before the new CBA every arbitration case went the same. A player's agent would find an example of a similar player getting way too much money and the arbitration panel would hand out inflated salary after inflated salary.

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