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Old
11-11-2003, 04:56 PM
  #1
hockeyaddict101
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Report card

missed last night as I saw only half the game and didn't feel qualify to comment.

PK - the reason they lost tonight. They were very passive on the pp tonight. Need to be more aggresive.

Faceoffs- Without Reasoner there is no one that does well in the faceoff circle. Now that he will be out for awhile with a fractured ankle this has to be an area of concern.

Brewer - Not a bad effort but I wish he wouldn't sit and hesitate in his own zone. It causes a lot of turnovers.

Chimera - OK effort but for the most part this season he really hasn't been very effective.

Conklin - Made some very good saves. Looked more confident this evening.

Cross - Pretty steady, yes he made a couple of errors and sometimes he just kills a good offensive chance by having pucks bounce over his stick. I counted three times where that happened this evening.

Dvorak - Always works hard but wasn't impressed with some of his offensive choices this evening.

Ferguson - played his usual simple game.

Hemksy - Made some nice passes but also made some terrible neutral zone turnovers.

Horcoff - Ok game, he scored a goal.

Moreau - Not as strong as he had been, but made three solid rushes that resulted in scoring situations. A little unlucky tonight.

Pisani - Another strong game, he is very sound defensively.

Semenov - He has to learn to hit the net on that slapshot he has and as usual didn't use his size enough. Otherwise not a bad effort.

Smith - Made a couple of unforced errors tonight but he played fairly well. He always plays a physical game.

Smyth - He has played a lot better in the last two games, created some good chances but his hustle along the boards.

Staios - Strong effort.

Stoll - Defensively he looks like a veteran and scores another goal.

Torres - Who would have guessed that he would be our scoring letter at any time this season. Just keeps on scoring and hustling. Wasn't he the throw in on that trade?

York - Strong effort all night, I breathed a sigh of relief when he came back for the third period.

Salmelainen - What a great play he made in the first period. Too bad it wasn't buried.

Sarno - Didn't really have a lot of ice time, and he got diving. If you all remember we all talked about a 9.5 dive he got away with in his first game. Is he already gaining a reputation.

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:00 PM
  #2
rabi_sultan
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in regards to your Torres comments he wasn't the throw in of that trade with the Islanders he was the centre piece.

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:03 PM
  #3
hockeyaddict101
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Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
in regards to your Torres comments he wasn't the throw in of that trade with the Islanders he was the centre piece.
Torres wasn't even playing in the NHL at the time so I would disagree that he was the centre piece but the way he is playing that trade is turning out to be a very good one!

In fact since he started the season getting so little ice time you know they weren't expecting this kind of production.

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11-11-2003, 05:05 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by spaz44
(snip)
Torres - Who would have guessed that he would be our scoring letter at any time this season. Just keeps on scoring and hustling. Wasn't he the throw in on that trade?

(snip)
Actually, I think he was the key in the deal, and the guy that Milbury didn't really want to give up. Izzy was a guy the Oilers were willing to take a chance on, but it was Raffi that the Oilers really wanted.

Otherwise I mostly agree with the report card. I thought Cross had one of his poorer games tonight, missed some clearing attempts (didn't they all? ) . And it often looks like a "fire drill at the asylum" in their own zone. What happened to the hard-hitting team we used to have??? I expected Chimera to be one of our heavy hitters, maybe Torres... Smith is about the only consistent guy out there at making good hits, but I'd like to see more crashing going on.

Bart

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11-11-2003, 05:06 PM
  #5
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He may not have been the centrepiece, but Lowe has loved him since he tried to draft him to the Oilers. There's no way he would have made that trade if it was Isbister and anyone else. He had been working on a way to trade for Torres since he was drafted. Torres may have been a throw-in for the Isles, but not for the Oilers.

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:07 PM
  #6
hockeyaddict101
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Originally Posted by barto
Actually, I think he was the key in the deal, and the guy that Milbury didn't really want to give up. Izzy was a guy the Oilers were willing to take a chance on, but it was Raffi that the Oilers really wanted.
That is true they really did want Torres but they also talked up Isbister quite a bit.

I really didn't expect him to blossom so quickly, centrepiece or surprise I love it.

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11-11-2003, 05:07 PM
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i'll disagree completely but I'm not going to extend the argument but simply state that yes Torres was the main cog in that deal and not Isbister, in fact Izzy was the throw in If you read between the lines on the articles and quotes surrounding that deal you'll be able to work out that it was Torres remember he was 4th overall for a reason and he's showing it. damn i hope ur right about the 30goalsg g2k

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11-11-2003, 05:07 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Torres wasn't even playing in the NHL at the time so I would disagree that he was the centre piece but the way he is playing that trade is turning out to be a very good one!

In fact since he started the season getting so little ice time you know they weren't expecting this kind of production.
I'd agree they weren't expecting him to produce like this so early, but they were always making comments about Torres having tremendous offensive upside, top-2 line material, etc., so I disagree - from all accounts, he was the key to dealing with Milbury, and the guy Mad Mike was most reluctant to give up on. Izzy wasn't quite a throw-in, but his trade value was fairly low after so many years of inconsistent play. Lowe was taking a bit of a gamble, hoping Izzy could turn things around here, but you KNOW they thought highly of Torres by offering him a one-way deal before he'd even played a single NHL game for them...!

Bart

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:10 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
That is true they really did want Torres but they also talked up Isbister quite a bit.

I really didn't expect him to blossom so quickly, centrepiece or surprise I love it.
I don't think ANYONE expected him to do so well so quickly, and thank goodness he's scoring like he is!!


Hell, I would have taken him in my draft if I'd expected this...

Bart

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11-11-2003, 05:11 PM
  #10
hockeyaddict101
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Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
i'll disagree completely but I'm not going to extend the argument but simply state that yes Torres was the main cog in that deal and not Isbister, in fact Izzy was the throw in If you read between the lines on the articles and quotes surrounding that deal you'll be able to work out that it was Torres remember he was 4th overall for a reason and he's showing it. damn i hope ur right about the 30goalsg g2k
\

As I said it very well could be and you all did notice that I had a question mark after that comment.

In reality I could care less if he was the throw in or not, to me his production so far has been a surprise to me. I wasn't expecting him to do so well so quickly.

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:13 PM
  #11
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Excellent reports as always, spaz44. I have no idea who the big part of the trade was, but Torres looks like Steve freaking Shutt out there scoring from everywhere.

How many really good players has Milbury traded? 7? 20? 450? It's staggering even if it's only 7.

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11-11-2003, 05:22 PM
  #12
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palffy, torres, salo, bertuzzi, brewer and i am sure there are more anyone wanna add?

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11-11-2003, 05:53 PM
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How can anyone say Smyth played well tonight? He was aweful. He gets knocked off the puck and to the ice more than any other NHL'er. He had more than 3 glorious setups that amounted to missed nets and fanned shots. He can't get away with just playing hard. He has to score. He needs to burry chances and unless it is a grbage goal or rebound empty net he does nothing on his own. Defensive zone coverage was awefull and he couldn't even come close to staying with whoever he was responsible for. IMO he was average at best and as I have been saying he needs to be the best player on the ice more consistently. The only reason that line has been on the scoresheet at all in the past 12 games is because of pp and with Torres doing everything for them in the last two nights. He got 2 in NY and both were direct results of good work by him. Tonights goal was a solo effort and Hemsky and Smyth were 100% invisible all evening. PICK IT UP SMYTH + HEMSKY!!!!! Goals by plug players like Stoll, Horcoff, Pisani, Chimera, Moreau, Torres, and the defensmen have been all of the offense of late. THese guys are the ones paying the price and grinding for what they get and the "best" players have been invisible. Torres has 7 goals for a reason - he works hard and finds a way to get into the right spots. He is determined to get the puck and determined to score. Take a page out of that book and get some production.

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11-11-2003, 06:01 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
How can anyone say Smyth played well tonight? He was aweful. He gets knocked off the puck and to the ice more than any other NHL'er. He had more than 3 glorious setups that amounted to missed nets and fanned shots. He can't get away with just playing hard. He has to score. He needs to burry chances and unless it is a grbage goal or rebound empty net he does nothing on his own. Defensive zone coverage was awefull and he couldn't even come close to staying with whoever he was responsible for. IMO he was average at best and as I have been saying he needs to be the best player on the ice more consistently. The only reason that line has been on the scoresheet at all in the past 12 games is because of pp and with Torres doing everything for them in the last two nights. He got 2 in NY and both were direct results of good work by him. Tonights goal was a solo effort and Hemsky and Smyth were 100% invisible all evening. PICK IT UP SMYTH + HEMSKY!!!!! Goals by plug players like Stoll, Horcoff, Pisani, Chimera, Moreau, Torres, and the defensmen have been all of the offense of late. THese guys are the ones paying the price and grinding for what they get and the "best" players have been invisible. Torres has 7 goals for a reason - he works hard and finds a way to get into the right spots. He is determined to get the puck and determined to score. Take a page out of that book and get some production.
Hmm, did you watch the game where Torres scored two the other night, did you notice who set them up? That is right Ryan Smyth.

On the one Smyth outhustled everybody and made an excellent pass to Torres, who because of the excellent pass had a chance to get two cracks at the puck. The other was because Ryan Smyth outraced everyone to the puck and made a perfect feed to Torres who had a wide open net. But you give all the credit to Torres?? What game were you watching the other night? Maybe you should go look at the highlights of that game!!

And did you notice who Torres gave the credit to after that game, it was Ryan Smyth. It was the first guy he gave credit too.

Smyth set up many chances tonight. I think your Ryan Smyth bias is making you miss some of these plays. Granted I think Ryan Smyth hasn't been as dominant of a player that he has been in the past but his play has been good in the last few games.

Before that if you noticed I commented that his play was not very Smytty like.

The game has ten points and is the second highest scorer on the team after Torres. What more do you want?

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Old
11-11-2003, 06:08 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Hmm, did you watch the game where Torres scored two the other night, did you notice who set them up. That is right Ryan Smyth.

On the one Smyth outhustled everybody and made an excellent pass to Torres, who because of the excellent pass had a chance to get two cracks at the puck.

And did you notice who Torres gave the credit to after that game, it was Ryan Smyth. It was the first guy he gave credit too.

Smyth set up many chances tonight. I think your Ryan Smyth bias is making you miss some of these plays. Granted I think Ryan Smyth hasn't been as dominant of a player that he has been in the past but his play has been good in the last few games.

Before that if you noticed I commented that his play was not very Smytty like.
Raffi Torres batted the first one out of the air after Smytty through it blindly towards the net. THios play has become more and more obvious in Smytty's repertoire. He gets the puck behind the net and throws it blindly out the middle making sure everyone is caught deep leading to odd man rushes. The other goal was Torres banging away refusing to be denied. I know that Ryan Smyth can be a very good hockey player. He is generally good at what he does but rarely does he make outstanding plays. He's a banger and he's not doing it right now no matter how people try and sugar coat things. He needs to work harder. He butchered more plays tonight than all the other players combined. I am biased and that is only because I expect more from this guy. If I wanted to let him get away with half what he could do then I would have loved Guerin, Arnott, Satan, etc. These guys had so much potential in Edmonton yet they never got the job done (other than in stretches - look at those guys now). I would hate to think that Smyth is starting to level off in his play. I mean we are 15 games into the season and although the points are their it is safe to say he hasn't performed anywhere near potential in any of the games.

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11-11-2003, 06:09 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
palffy, torres, salo, bertuzzi, brewer and i am sure there are more anyone wanna add?
Luongo, Jokinen, Redden

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11-11-2003, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Raffi Torres batted the first one out of the air after Smytty through it blindly towards the net. THios play has become more and more obvious in Smytty's repertoire. He gets the puck behind the net and throws it blindly out the middle making sure everyone is caught deep leading to odd man rushes. The other goal was Torres banging away refusing to be denied. I know that Ryan Smyth can be a very good hockey player. He is generally good at what he does but rarely does he make outstanding plays. He's a banger and he's not doing it right now no matter how people try and sugar coat things. He needs to work harder. He butchered more plays tonight than all the other players combined. I am biased and that is only because I expect more from this guy. If I wanted to let him get away with half what he could do then I would have loved Guerin, Arnott, Satan, etc. These guys had so much potential in Edmonton yet they never got the job done (other than in stretches - look at those guys now). I would hate to think that Smyth is starting to level off in his play. I mean we are 15 games into the season and although the points are their it is safe to say he hasn't performed anywhere near potential in any of the games.
Even it it was blindly toward the net (IMO it was a perfect pass), if Smytty doesn't outbattle everyone to that puck Torres never has those two whacks does he? That play dies because there is no one to feed Torres the puck.

I noticed you didn't bother to respond about the second goal, I am sure it must have been a blind pass right on Torres's stick.

15 games and he has 5 goals and 5 assists but I am sure all of those were just blink luck

I wish as many Oilers were playing as bad as Ryan Smyth is. He is not a player that I am remotely worried about and never have been.

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11-11-2003, 06:17 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
palffy, torres, salo, bertuzzi, brewer and i am sure there are more anyone wanna add?
that kid luongo is turning out ok..

Ziggy was leading the nhl in scoring the other day.

Chara is arguable a top 10 dman in the league right now, Spezza has a little potential as well.

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11-11-2003, 06:18 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Even it it was blindly toward the net (IMO it was a perfect pass), if Smytty doesn't outbattle everyone to that puck Torres never has those two whacks does he???? Simple question I would like to have an answer to it.

I noticed you didn't bother to respond about the second goal, I am sure it must have been a blind pass right on Torres stick.

15 games and he has 5 goals and 5 assists but I am sure all of those were just blink luck
Do you want me to go through his goals? Game 1 of season - he shoots a puck and it deflects off a Sharks defenseman into the net from behind the net on the PP. Same game Dvorak makes the perfect pass to Smytth for a tap in. Empty net goal against Colorado. Game against the Flames on the PP shot from the point that Horcoff banged and was going in when SMyth dove and touched it across for no reason because Horcoff knocked it in. And Finally the Goal against the Leafs to lose 4-1. Show me the incredible talent in those goals. Assists - 2 the other night - if you consider the rebound that Torres knocked from 3 feet out of the air a perfect pass than you really must love Smytty's playmaking ability cause that is how most of his passes have been of late. The remainder of the assists have come pp as second assists on other players work. He showed his true self on the great feed to Reasoner for the shorthanded marker against Colorado early in the year. That is the sum of his points. They flatter his performance and to disagree would be assinine. If you think he has performed up to or even near par than you haven't been watching. He has been brutal and don't give me the he needs a centerman or he has been playing center defense. Good players find a way to contribute. They battle through checkers. He needs to be better and that is what my point has and will continue to be until he improves.

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11-11-2003, 06:22 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Walsher
Do you want me to go through his goals? Game 1 of season - he shoots a puck and it deflects off a Sharks defenseman into the net from behind the net on the PP. Same game Dvorak makes the perfect pass to Smytth for a tap in. Empty net goal against Colorado. Game against the Flames on the PP shot from the point that Horcoff banged and was going in when SMyth dove and touched it across for no reason because Horcoff knocked it in. And Finally the Goal against the Leafs to lose 4-1. Show me the incredible talent in those goals. Assists - 2 the other night - if you consider the rebound that Torres knocked from 3 feet out of the air a perfect pass than you really must love Smytty's playmaking ability cause that is how most of his passes have been of late. The remainder of the assists have come pp as second assists on other players work. He showed his true self on the great feed to Reasoner for the shorthanded marker against Colorado early in the year. That is the sum of his points. They flatter his performance and to disagree would be assinine. If you think he has performed up to or even near par than you haven't been watching. He has been brutal and don't give me the he needs a centerman or he has been playing center defense. Good players find a way to contribute. They battle through checkers. He needs to be better and that is what my point has and will continue to be until he improves.
I really don't care how he scores his goals. As long as he scores them. He is the second highest scorer on the team and he is tied for the point lead.

Ten points is ten points, and the results are what counts. Smytty's goals are all garbage goals and they have been since he entered the NHL.

Who the hell cares?? They don't ask how they go in they ask how many?

Do they count more when they are pretty goals?

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11-11-2003, 06:33 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by spaz44
I really don't care how he scores his goals. As long as he scores them. He is the second highest scorer on the team and he is tied for the point lead.

Ten points is ten points, and the results are what counts. Smytty's goals are all garbage goals and they have been since he entered the NHL.

Who the hell cares?? They don't ask how they go in they ask how many?

Do they count more when they are pretty goals?
The fact remains he hasn't played even close to potential and I think you know that for a fact. The opportunity he gets out there I should hope he has 10 points in 15 games. The problem is he is still well in the minus and has produced absolutely nothing 5 on 5. He is so average this year even if he has 10 points. Mac T knows it - Smyth was on the fourth line in TO. Smyth is creating nothing, he is poor in his own zone, and he is not getting enough criticism for his play. Try to justify it all you want by looking at his point totals but I still maintain those numbers are extremely flattering based on his performance. I don't deny that goals are goals no matter how ugly but he needs to be better. With 5 ugly goals through 15 games he should have 10 overall. People question the pp - where is the slot area presence of Smyth. No tip ins - not rebounds - no traffic. He has more potential than people are giving him credit for. It bothers me that people don't recognize this. We praise him for average play. "Well he has 10 points he must be playing good enough". he is not playing good enough. He needs to be better. Everyone who watches his play and knows what he can do can see this. Like I said don't sugar coat bad play by justifying praise based on a point toal we all know doesn't represent the effort and desire in his game this year.

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11-11-2003, 06:34 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Walsher
That is the sum of his points. They flatter his performance and to disagree would be assinine. If you think he has performed up to or even near par than you haven't been watching.
Wow. That's an awfully arrogant statement to make for a guy with 196 posts....

Just a question...when was the last time Smytty EVER went end-to-end?

Mmmhmm. So, on the most intelligent hockey message board on the site, where players get rotated in and out of the doghouse daily, why is it only you that is after Smytty? Everyone else seems to be ok with his play so far...I wonder...is it the guys who have been watching the Oilers since the days of the straight stick blades that are wrong? Or is it Walsher...ye of 196 posts.

Stand and be expunged beeatch.

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11-11-2003, 06:38 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Walsher
The fact remains he hasn't played even close to potential and I think you know that for a fact. The opportunity he gets out there I should hope he has 10 points in 15 games. The problem is he is still well in the minus and has produced absolutely nothing 5 on 5. He is so average this year even if he has 10 points. Mac T knows it - Smyth was on the fourth line in TO. Smyth is creating nothing, he is poor in his own zone, and he is not getting enough criticism for his play. Try to justify it all you want by looking at his point totals but I still maintain those numbers are extremely flattering based on his performance. I don't deny that goals are goals no matter how ugly but he needs to be better. With 5 ugly goals through 15 games he should have 10 overall. People question the pp - where is the slot area presence of Smyth. No tip ins - not rebounds - no traffic. He has more potential than people are giving him credit for. It bothers me that people don't recognize this. We praise him for average play. "Well he has 10 points he must be playing good enough". he is not playing good enough. He needs to be better. Everyone who watches his play and knows what he can do can see this. Like I said don't sugar coat bad play by justifying praise based on a point toal we all know doesn't represent the effort and desire in his game this year.
Have you read any of my report cards besides this one? I have commented on almost all of them that Smytty hasn't played up to his potential yet and has struggled this year but in the last few games he has played better and I liked his effort tonight. You and I disagree on this, ok so what? So IMO we agree that he hasn't played his best hockey yet but the results are still there.

Ryan Smyth will continue to get his points, I am not worried about him whatsover.

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11-11-2003, 06:41 PM
  #24
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Wow. That's an awfully arrogant statement to make for a guy with 196 posts....

Just a question...when was the last time Smytty EVER went end-to-end?

Mmmhmm. So, on the most intelligent hockey message board on the site, where players get rotated in and out of the doghouse daily, why is it only you that is after Smytty? Everyone else seems to be ok with his play so far...I wonder...is it the guys who have been watching the Oilers since the days of the straight stick blades that are wrong? Or is it Walsher...ye of 196 posts.

Stand and be expunged beeatch.
Buddy you have to be joking! You must be a much smarter hockey mind because you have posted 300+ times? If you think Smyth is playing to potential then you are seriously lacking any sort of hockey knowledge. In fact - if you thinks Hemsky is playing to potential than you are even in worse shape. To take a personal shot at me because I feel - like many other I must say, because I am expressing dissapointment about a player that is so much more skilled than he has shown is extremely immature on your behalf. Have you ever been to an Oilers game? Have you ever played hockey? Can you even skate? I bet you are like the goof on Mystery Alaska that got chased out of the town because he skated like a queer. Ye of 300+ posts give me a break. You are such the hockey mind. Good effort.

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11-11-2003, 06:44 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Buddy you have to be joking! You must be a much smarter hockey mind because you have posted 300+ times? If you think Smyth is playing to potential then you are seriously lacking any sort of hockey knowledge. In fact - if you thinks Hemsky is playing to potential than you are even in worse shape. To take a personal shot at me because I feel - like many other I must say, because I am expressing dissapointment about a player that is so much more skilled than he has shown is extremely immature on your behalf. Have you ever been to an Oilers game? Have you ever played hockey? Can you even skate? I bet you are like the goof on Mystery Alaska that got chased out of the town because he skated like a queer. Ye of 300+ posts give me a break. You are such the hockey mind. Good effort.
Oh, so I get it. If people don't agree with your opinions they must be a person that never watched hockey or played it.

Sorry but you are now showing your immaturity. I don't agree with you but I don't assume that you have never watched hockey or have played it.

We have a different opinion, and that is fine. Argue your point and move on.

This is a message board and people don't always agree.

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