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11-11-2003, 05:19 PM
  #1
dawgbone
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Just Curious...

When Salo was playing, every moaned about his GAA and Sv%...

Now that Conklin is in net, no one cares that in his past 2 games he has a GAA of 4.00 and a sv% of .893

This is not a knock on Conklin, as I am a huge fan of his... it is more of an observation.

Could it actually be that it isn't completely the goaltenders fault?

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11-11-2003, 05:24 PM
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it never was, Salo makes the most money so if he doesn't bring back a pot of gold every time then he will get ridiculed. The defensive breakdowns have been happening since last year. Remember when the Oilers had the 2nd best d in the league about 2years ago guess what they were doing? playing defence for sure the Oilers have opened up their play to a run and gun style meaning we have poor defensive coverage

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:25 PM
  #3
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Could it actually be that it isn't completely the goaltenders fault?
I don't think anybody is saying it's COMPLETELY the goalie's fault. Our defensive play has been putrid. But I think a lot of the blame comes from the fact that Salo is being paid over 3 million dollars than Conklin and we are seeing the same results so far.

Regardless, tonight Conklin kept us in the game all night long. There was not one goal you could fault him on and he made saves he had no business saving... I don't think you could say the same for Salo most of this year.

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:28 PM
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Walsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
When Salo was playing, every moaned about his GAA and Sv%...

Now that Conklin is in net, no one cares that in his past 2 games he has a GAA of 4.00 and a sv% of .893

This is not a knock on Conklin, as I am a huge fan of his... it is more of an observation.

Could it actually be that it isn't completely the goaltenders fault?
Exactly!! not to mention if it wasn't for Conklin the game would have been 8-3. he made numerous saves on glorious opportunities. Even though the shots were close most of the game, Boston's chances were extremely high quality. I have never seen so many turnovers at the defensive blueline and neutral zone like this group of defensemen have coughed up. It is frustrating. Every one of them has done it not just one or two guys. For a corps with as little talent things have to be much much simpler. The offense can stay the same but the pucks have to get out of the zone easier and more consistently. Conklin was hung out to dry on every goal much like Salo has been during most of the season. I think the one difference is that Conks has made the saves that are "easy" stops whereas Tommy has let a few slip through especially at key points in important games. Don't rip the goalies rip the defensement.

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11-11-2003, 05:29 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
When Salo was playing, every moaned about his GAA and Sv%...

Now that Conklin is in net, no one cares that in his past 2 games he has a GAA of 4.00 and a sv% of .893

This is not a knock on Conklin, as I am a huge fan of his... it is more of an observation.

Could it actually be that it isn't completely the goaltenders fault?
Conks has let in 1 soft goal over the last 2 games. Tonight it was 3 PP and Staios glued to the post without a stick and letting McCarthy by without a challenge.

Conks likely won't end in the top 10 but he isn't paid like it either whereas Salo is, and he won't end up in the top 10 either.

Go with the cheaper guy in goal and spend some money on a #1 or 2 D man!

 
Old
11-11-2003, 05:30 PM
  #6
Hemsky01
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$4Million Salary = Best player on Small Market Team
If this equation does not hold true, HF + oilfans =

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Old
11-11-2003, 05:34 PM
  #7
gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
When Salo was playing, every moaned about his GAA and Sv%...

Now that Conklin is in net, no one cares that in his past 2 games he has a GAA of 4.00 and a sv% of .893

This is not a knock on Conklin, as I am a huge fan of his... it is more of an observation.

Could it actually be that it isn't completely the goaltenders fault?
Good point, but Conks made some saves that the "modern day" Salo may not have in the 3rd.

But what's the diferrence between losing 4-3 and 6-3 I guess? It's still a loss of 2 points.

When the Oilers mounted a comeback Conks kept them in it.

That can keep the grumbling down.

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Old
11-11-2003, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
When Salo was playing, every moaned about his GAA and Sv%...

Now that Conklin is in net, no one cares that in his past 2 games he has a GAA of 4.00 and a sv% of .893

This is not a knock on Conklin, as I am a huge fan of his... it is more of an observation.

Could it actually be that it isn't completely the goaltenders fault?
As I said yesterday. It doesn't matter how many shots Conklin stops if he there is 4 goals against per game. The Oilers better get more commited to defence before Colorado comes back to town.

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11-11-2003, 06:06 PM
  #9
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My concern with Salo this year has been a general inability to make the timely save needed to win hockey games. It is this affliction which erodes and kills team confidence and has resulted in one-way tickets out of town for goalies like Felix Potvin, Cechmanek, and (Hail) Roman Turak. I like Tommy Salo but he just doesn't seem right.

There is no immediate savior for this team ... although Marc-Andre Fleury would be nice (or an old school Grant Fuhr). Conklin has played fairly well in his starts but it is evident the whole team bares responsibility for poor defensive play.

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11-11-2003, 06:10 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Walsher
Exactly!! not to mention if it wasn't for Conklin the game would have been 8-3. he made numerous saves on glorious opportunities. Even though the shots were close most of the game, Boston's chances were extremely high quality. I have never seen so many turnovers at the defensive blueline and neutral zone like this group of defensemen have coughed up. It is frustrating. Every one of them has done it not just one or two guys. For a corps with as little talent things have to be much much simpler. The offense can stay the same but the pucks have to get out of the zone easier and more consistently. Conklin was hung out to dry on every goal much like Salo has been during most of the season. I think the one difference is that Conks has made the saves that are "easy" stops whereas Tommy has let a few slip through especially at key points in important games. Don't rip the goalies rip the defensement.

I concur, the first two saves he made early on Knuble, and on Murray, were insane. Guaranteed that second glove save high would have been in on Salo, cause he seems to like to go to his knees before the shooter shoots. CIP, Sundin's goal in TO.

 
Old
11-12-2003, 01:22 AM
  #11
Yanner39
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This is why stats mean crap. Salo wasn't making key saves at key times. He hasn't won the Oilers a game in almost 2 years. I think Salo will bounce back. Conklin was a main reason why the Bs last night weren't lead 2 or 3 zip after the first 10 minutes.

Oh yeah, I have less trouble accepting our backup making under $1M with those kinds of stats than our started at $3.9M.

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Old
11-12-2003, 11:13 AM
  #12
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I agree with Dawgy. Salo's nowhere near 100% and it looks like he's been suffering a hip injury for most of the season. He has been made to look a lot worse (as well as Conks) simply because the Oiler defense is brutal.

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Old
11-12-2003, 11:20 AM
  #13
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Agreed that it isn't totally the goaltender's fault...

But .893 vs .866 is quite different and it overall Ty still has an even bigger advantage stats wise.

And there are a couple of other factors that have been mentioned.

Oilers press Leafs....Sundin scores on a tough but possible save. Oilers keep pressing, Leafs score again. Oilers start losing steam.

It is just as much when the goals occur as anything else. On top of that, I sense that the team is wondering about Tommy's confidence as well making them play tentative defensively(Comments?)

I haven't been in the blow out Tommy camp, but he needs to start playing better because he is pizzing me off....

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11-12-2003, 11:33 AM
  #14
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Thinking back to the Fuhr ceremony, everything they were saying about Grant is all that seperates him from Salo.

Both are above average tenders, nothing spectacular.

But Fuhr ALWAYS made the key save at key times.

Where, dating back to the Olympics, Salo has let in questionable goals at the worst possible times.

Fuhr might let in a few, but when it came down to the crunch, there was no way he would let one in.

Tommy, on the other hand, will make some nice saves, but they always seem that one goal on him that really takes the wind out of the Oilers sails'.

ex. in Ottawa and Toronto, game 6 against Dallas, Olympics..... list goes on and on

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Old
11-12-2003, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Thinking back to the Fuhr ceremony, everything they were saying about Grant is all that seperates him from Salo.

Both are above average tenders, nothing spectacular.

But Fuhr ALWAYS made the key save at key times.

Where, dating back to the Olympics, Salo has let in questionable goals at the worst possible times.

Fuhr might let in a few, but when it came down to the crunch, there was no way he would let one in.

Tommy, on the other hand, will make some nice saves, but they always seem that one goal on him that really takes the wind out of the Oilers sails'.

ex. in Ottawa and Toronto, game 6 against Dallas, Olympics..... list goes on and on
bingo!

furthermore:
- stats are always misleading but an 866 save percentage after 10+ games is not
- stats over two games are a lot more misleading than stats after 10 games.
- with salo in net last night (playing the way he has been) it's likely 4 - 0 Bs after one.
- assuming salo held the fort in the first chances are that he lets in a weak goal to make it 5 - 3 about 43 seconds after the oilers pull to within one.
- conklin's performance has been noticeably better than salo's in each game he has played
- (salo + current defense) is not 3 better than (conklin + 3 million in supporting help)
- straight up, salo is not 3 million dollars per season better than conklin

dawgbone, i know you like to stick up for the goalies. usually i do as well and i'll be the first to agree that the oilers D and special teams is terrible (making being a goalie a nightmare). but does the team's shoddy play do anything to disprove the theory behind the points i've made above (obviously some of those points are pure speculation but it's tough to suggest they aren't hypotheses founded in logic)?

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