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Old
07-18-2006, 03:21 PM
  #51
Edge
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
absolutely. Is it a necessity that you have that young stud to build a team around? I'm not 100% sure about that. Things happen in weird ways. Carolina wins the Cup. They have a superstar in Staal (who interestingly enough only averaged a point per game in the AHL the prior season and more in the NHL the following season). But the star seemed to be Cam Ward, a 22 year old who came out of nowhere this season (didn't put up great numbers in regular season), and was a huge part of that run on a team whose defense I wouldn't rank up there with great championship defenses.

There's so much that goes into winning a Cup, as we both know, and there are so many elements, and there are always a couple surprises in there.

I don't know...maybe I'm not as convinced about the Rangers' defensive depth at this point and am afraid to let go of a guy like Staal since this organization hasn't had a young defenseman like him in a looong time. Of course, they haven't had a Malkin either.

I'm just gunshy at this point, I guess similar to Sather possibly saying that he wanted Chara, but the price was too much. It's a similar argument. Do you go for it, which may've cost a few hundred $k more per year if published rumors are correct, or not, much like do you put yourself over the top by adding Staal, if that's the case, or walk away?

Def. makes sense, but to me Staal kind of shows that center spot and I think Malkin could have a similar impact.

When you look at surrounding players, we're there with Carolina in terms of what we've got coming up. Carolina's defense didn't really a have shut down defensive type, but they did have the centerpiece forward.

But it's as you said, you can really take it either way.

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07-18-2006, 03:38 PM
  #52
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I think Jagr...

and the way he acquired me spoiled me a bit and I need to realize that Sather ain't finding another Jagr for Carter transaction - but that centerpiece type forward may be had as a UFA someday and while he wouldn't be a 'centerpiece', he could be that missing ingredient on a team that was put together nicely.

But in going through past Cup winners in my head (having trouble remembering who's won past Cups), I can't find a team that didn't have a Staal, or a Lecavalier, or Yzerman, Modano, Stevens, etc. Heck, even teams that lost had Pronger and Iginla - types of guys Malkin projects to be - real #1s, albeit surrounded by a great bunch of players (and of course, they're of varying ages and there were others, like a Brind'Amour, or St. Louis, or Lidstrom, or Hatcher, who were a bit more than second rate.

The Rangers have Jagr, but in two seasons, when this team could really start taking shape, they won't have the Jagr of last season most likely. You get Malkin, you have him for several years to build around. Very tough call. But if the package leaving the Rangers becomes too much, I wouldn't force a force a deal.

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07-18-2006, 03:38 PM
  #53
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If Malkin's available, I'd be perfectly willing to deal Staal as part of a package to get him. If it took Staal, Prucha, and our next 1st rounder, I don't think I'd even hesitate. Staal is an excellent prospect at this point, but does anyone REALLY think he's the next generation's Pronger or Chelios? It just seems like we're believing the hype too much. Plus, we have considerable depth among the defensemen prospects that we can more than afford to part with one in the right deal. I'm not saying that losing Staal to trade wouldn't hurt. I'm just saying that, understanding you have to give to get, Staal is well worth giving up if Malkin's the prize. It would hurt to give up Prucha too, but again, I think it's worth it. And I think if we did not have a package that strong, someone else would surely beat our offer.

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07-18-2006, 03:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Personally, if I'm going to move assets this is the kind of deal I'd move them for.

Malkin is a top pick in 99% of the drafts, he just happened to be available the year Ovechkin was.
i agree with you edge

if there's anyone slightly on the reasonable side (not crosby, ovechkin) i put a ridiculous package for, it's malkin

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07-18-2006, 03:46 PM
  #55
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The answer to the Staal question...

is that you really don't know. He's pretty well-advanced now. He played pretty darn well against other under 20 year olds throughout the world and was a real standout on defense - perhaps the best in the tournament as he shut down the world's best up and comers, including Malkin. The question that nobody can answer today is will Staal continue to develop and continue to improve. I think he played above expectations last season, and expectations weren't low. If he continues to do that, you may just have a Pronger. Problem is, he's still only 19 and it's very difficult to determine how he'll continue to develop. Forget injuries, as they can happen to anybody including Malkin. How big does this kid get and does his game port well to the NHL are questions one can answer in a couple years, as everyone expects it to take a bit of time for him to play at a high level in the NHL. Malkin, most believe, can play in the NHL today. He has the offensive tools and size and was playing with men. He's only a year older but is further along in his development so one can say with more confidence that this kid is a bonafide NHLer with huge upside potential and a good chance of hitting it.

To answer the question...one doesn't know today if Staal is tomorrow's Pronger; it's not improbable if the kid continues to work hard and improve.

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07-18-2006, 03:50 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
and the way he acquired me spoiled me a bit and I need to realize that Sather ain't finding another Jagr for Carter transaction - but that centerpiece type forward may be had as a UFA someday and while he wouldn't be a 'centerpiece', he could be that missing ingredient on a team that was put together nicely.

But in going through past Cup winners in my head (having trouble remembering who's won past Cups), I can't find a team that didn't have a Staal, or a Lecavalier, or Yzerman, Modano, Stevens, etc. Heck, even teams that lost had Pronger and Iginla - types of guys Malkin projects to be - real #1s, albeit surrounded by a great bunch of players (and of course, they're of varying ages and there were others, like a Brind'Amour, or St. Louis, or Lidstrom, or Hatcher, who were a bit more than second rate.

The Rangers have Jagr, but in two seasons, when this team could really start taking shape, they won't have the Jagr of last season most likely. You get Malkin, you have him for several years to build around. Very tough call. But if the package leaving the Rangers becomes too much, I wouldn't force a force a deal.
And that's the flip side of what i'm thinking. Even those cup winners had a guy like that. For all the talk about going out and getting these young centers via UFA, I can't think of any that have become available.

We keep saying "We'll wait till so and so becomes available" but they haven't and I don't know if that's going to change.

Ironically with names like Chara and Blake and Pronger available, I've probably seen more final piece defenseman than I have final piece forwards. And the real question is whether Staal is on that level. That is a matter of opinion.

I've seen some team's win the cup the last few years without that conerstone defenseman (Carolina, Tampa) but they all had at least a cornerstone forward and goalie.

Even team's like NJ, Detroit or Colorado that had the defenseman, needed a forward.

Staal looks good, but to me Malkin is just on that really special level.

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07-18-2006, 03:54 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post

To answer the question...one doesn't know today if Staal is tomorrow's Pronger; it's not improbable if the kid continues to work hard and improve.
And that's really it for me, I don't think Staal is quite on that level.

Malkin to me isn't just a kid who can play and might become a 30 goal, 70 point player. To Malkin is a kid who could become a 40 goal 100 point player or even beyond with the right linemates.

I like Staal a lot but to me he isn;t the defensive equivalent of that type of player (and not meaning points, but rather overall value).

He's really good, don't get me wrong, but I do wonder somewhat if his value is a bit higher around here than it might be if he was drafted by say.... Atlanta.

Malkin to me is a legit all-world type talent, Staal is a level below that in my eyes.

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07-18-2006, 03:55 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post

To answer the question...one doesn't know today if Staal is tomorrow's Pronger; it's not improbable if the kid continues to work hard and improve.
And that's really it for me, I don't think Staal is quite on that level.

Malkin to me isn't just a kid who can play and might become a 30 goal, 70 point player. To Malkin is a kid who could become a 40 goal 100 point player or even beyond with the right linemates.

I like Staal a lot but to me he isn;t the defensive equivalent of that type of player (and not meaning points, but rather overall value).

He's really good, don't get me wrong, but I do wonder somewhat if his value is a bit higher around here than it might be if he was drafted by say.... Atlanta.

Malkin to me is a legit all-world type talent, Staal is a level below that in my eyes.

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07-25-2006, 08:53 PM
  #59
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Evgeni Malkin

Because of a lack of an International Transfer Agreement with Russia, The Penguins may not bring Evgeni Malkin over till 2008-9

http://msgnetwork.com/content_news.j...her&league=mlb


The Rangers have enough money to payoff any Russian Team for his rights and that money doesnt count against the cap.

I propose the Rangers trade Marc Staal, any other prospect and there 2007 first round pick for Malkin.

What do you guys think?

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07-25-2006, 08:56 PM
  #60
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Pittsburgh would turn that offer down fairly fast, I'm afraid.

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07-25-2006, 09:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Pittsburgh would turn that offer down fairly fast, I'm afraid.
Well the Penguins dont have the Capital to work out a Transfer Agreement for Malkin. They may have to wait two years and wont they lose his rights after August 15th? The Penguins may have to do something or they will lose Malkin.

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07-25-2006, 09:12 PM
  #62
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Penguins don't have the capital right NOW to make it happen, but that certainly doesn't mean they won't have it in the next few months if/when the team is sold. I'd love to see us get the kid, but they'll def be 28 other suitors going after the guy.

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07-25-2006, 09:36 PM
  #63
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Pens won't like it, but if this is all some stall to get a payoff they might want to rethink how there team might best be served....

The Rangers would likely be one of a few teams with the purse to bag that player if it's a payoff situation...as long as it not on the cap....

is that a fact?

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07-25-2006, 09:51 PM
  #64
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not another malkin thread!
surely these can all be merged and possibly stickied.
Malkin would be nice.
Pens will want too much.
end of story.

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07-25-2006, 10:10 PM
  #65
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malkin would cost more then m.staal and a 1st round pick.

pittsburgh loves him, prolem for them is that he might not love them...

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07-25-2006, 10:26 PM
  #66
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i thought the russians and NHL singed a transfer agreement before the draft, what happened to that?

I doubt Bettman will allow any team to pay a transfer fee that is much larger than the one called for in the agreement already signed with every other international hockey federation. To do so would be to set a dangerous precident. All of a sudden poorer teams will be reluctant to draft highly regarded russians, which would work against the league goal of parity.

and that offer wouldn't do it anyway. Staal, Prucha, Dubinsky, and a first is what your probably looking at.

I don't get why this would force the pens to trade him. I'd rather just wait another year for the guy to get out of his contract rather than move him.

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07-25-2006, 10:35 PM
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and that offer wouldn't do it anyway. Staal, Prucha, Dubinsky, and a first is what your probably looking at.
I would gladly do that deal.

But let's face it, this isn't going to hold Pittsburgh back from getting him over. Whether he wants to play there is another story.

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07-25-2006, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Because of a lack of an International Transfer Agreement with Russia, The Penguins may not bring Evgeni Malkin over till 2008-9

http://msgnetwork.com/content_news.j...her&league=mlb


The Rangers have enough money to payoff any Russian Team for his rights and that money doesnt count against the cap.
Too bad the NHL won't allow it.

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07-25-2006, 10:51 PM
  #69
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sry but how old is malkin?

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07-25-2006, 11:05 PM
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The NHL won't allow Malkin, or any Russian tied up in this mess, to simply go anywhere and the Penguins certainly wouldn't be interested in dealing him to a division rival.

You're not getting Malkin, we're not getting M. Staal...end of story.

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Old
07-25-2006, 11:18 PM
  #71
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As doubtful I am about the Pens wanting to trade Malkin, the fact that they drafted Staal this year is cause for alot of suspicion. It simply does not make sense to have 3 franchise centers, so it is safe to say that one of either Malkin or Staal will be moved eventually (this is working under the obvious assumption that Crosby won't be going anywhere). This whole hypothesis would be moot, however, if it turned out that there were plans to shift one of these players to wing, although that is also quite doubtful.

That being said, prospect for prospect trades rarely, if ever occur, and one would have to assume that this trend will continue. Staal and a 1st for Malkin would be impossible to pass up from a Rangers POV, but try to think of the last time you saw a trade like this happen... Don't get your hopes up.

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07-25-2006, 11:20 PM
  #72
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Rangers aren't giving enough in that deal. I don't see why Pittsburgh would trade Malkin anyways.

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07-25-2006, 11:24 PM
  #73
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sry but how old is malkin?
he turns 20 at the end of this month.

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07-25-2006, 11:29 PM
  #74
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As doubtful I am about the Pens wanting to trade Malkin, the fact that they drafted Staal this year is cause for alot of suspicion. It simply does not make sense to have 3 franchise centers, so it is safe to say that one of either Malkin or Staal will be moved eventually (this is working under the obvious assumption that Crosby won't be going anywhere). This whole hypothesis would be moot, however, if it turned out that there were plans to shift one of these players to wing, although that is also quite doubtful.
Eventually moving Staal to wing is likely to be the goal, although he could very well be traded for the reasons you cite.

However, I don't think the mere selection of a center is enough to warrant suspicion. The draft was simply center-heavy, especially at the top.

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07-25-2006, 11:46 PM
  #75
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As doubtful I am about the Pens wanting to trade Malkin, the fact that they drafted Staal this year is cause for alot of suspicion. It simply does not make sense to have 3 franchise centers, so it is safe to say that one of either Malkin or Staal will be moved eventually (this is working under the obvious assumption that Crosby won't be going anywhere). This whole hypothesis would be moot, however, if it turned out that there were plans to shift one of these players to wing, although that is also quite doubtful.

That being said, prospect for prospect trades rarely, if ever occur, and one would have to assume that this trend will continue. Staal and a 1st for Malkin would be impossible to pass up from a Rangers POV, but try to think of the last time you saw a trade like this happen... Don't get your hopes up.
I think that was a matter of picking the best player available. If St. Louis passed on Johnson, they'd be all over that. And the fact that the next 7 of 8 players chosen were centers doesn't say much for their options of not picking a center at that position.

Even though he was just drafted, I would not mind getting Jordan! Something like Tyutin, Callahan, and a 3rd? Nah, who am I kidding.

I think I read somewhere next year is a deep draft. Did I hallucinate? Would suck to lose our 1st pick.

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