HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

is it finally time for a calgary / edmonton trade?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-12-2003, 09:57 AM
  #26
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
So anyone that comes in here and is realistic about Comrie's worth is automatically a troll. I see how this works. If anyone says anything that you Oilers fans don't agree with, that's a troll. LOL !!

Just thought I would wake you guys up from those trade dreams. Can anyone say "Marc Savard" or "Ruslan Zainullin" ???
It has nothing to do with Comrie's worth... it has to do with Oiler needs.

If the Oilers are going to trade Comrie, especially to someone within their own division or conference, they are going to have to get a lot back for him.

We have had this conversation on this board numerous times, sorry you weren't around for the first 20 or so... next time, try reading back a couple of weeks to get the whole story, not just the leftovers 2 weeks later.

The Oilers <b>don't need</b> prospects in a deal for Comrie... especially ones that won't help the team at all this year. And Lowe has said that, and has also said that he won't deal Comrie until he gets what he wants for him, meaning either a player who is like Comrie (young, proven and talented), or some temporary help at centre, and a good prospect, Comrie isn't going to get traded.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:02 AM
  #27
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
I see your point Dawgbone, but I just don't see any teams viewing Comrie as highly as the Oilers do (rightfully so I guess). I know that Phaneuf is not in the NHL right now, but believe me, he could play for the Oilers right now. He is better than Bergeron, Ferguson, Semenov & Cross..... RIGHT NOW !! He has a bullet for a shot and hits like a bus. His skating needs a bit of work but not much, he is the real deal and the Oilers won't get anything better. IMO, he has more upside than Coburn or Suter.
How can you not view a 23 year old who lead his team in scoring his first full season despite not having anything in terms of quality linemates for about 1/4 of the season highly?

As for Phaneuf being better than Semenov, Bergeron, Cross and Ferguson right now, I am confused... how can I be over-valuing a proven NHL goal scorer, but your prospect who hasn't played an NHL game is better than 4 established defencemen?

dawgbone is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:03 AM
  #28
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by comrie
Garfield, please do a fill in the blank for me:

Savard had a bad _________, who insulted his ________ and ___. He was a ______ player, who was not successful in his time in __________.

Comrie played with a lot of ______, scored clutch (and many) ______. Comrie did not have a bad ________, and was not a ______ player.

Can you see the difference in these situations. Oh, and one more:

Button was a ________ GM. Lowe, however, is an _________ GM.

I'll grade you when you answer.

Savard had a bad "attitude" (same goes for Comrie), who insulted his "Coach" and "nobody else". He was a "very good" player, who was not successful in his time in "New York".

Comrie played with a lot of "losers", scored clutch ______ "can't answer that one because the playoffs are clutch and he was nowhere to be found". Comrie did not have a bad "attitude, he does now" and was not a "very good" player.

Can you see the difference in these situations. Oh, and one more:

Button was a "Bad" GM. Lowe, however, is an "okay" GM.

It's my opinion against yours I guess but Savard was playing just as well in Calgary as Comrie has been. Comrie has demanded a trade like Savard did and it is clear that Comrie has a bad attitude as well. The only difference is the Gilbert factor.

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:08 AM
  #29
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by comrie
In the past year, Clarke has picked up Kappenan and Hackett, who are both fairly small players. Trust me, size is not the only factor Clarke looks at in a trade/acquisition.
C & W are different positions, eh. Size is more important for a Centre. I can't believe I have to explain this. Face it, Bobby Clarke has already said he has no use for Comrie and he has no room for him as he is very happy with his C-men. All things being equal, size rules !! This is grade 1 hockey stuff.

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:16 AM
  #30
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
C & W are different positions, eh. Size is more important for a Centre. I can't believe I have to explain this. Face it, Bobby Clarke has already said he has no use for Comrie and he has no room for him as he is very happy with his C-men. All things being equal, size rules !! This is grade 1 hockey stuff.
Funny... out of the top 25 scorers last year, only 9 were bigger than 6'2 210 lbs.

So yeah, if talent, speed, shooting, etc are all the same, the bigger guys is a better player.

But it doesn't mean that you pick a bigger player over a smaller, more talented one.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:18 AM
  #31
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
It's my opinion against yours I guess but Savard was playing just as well in Calgary as Comrie has been. Comrie has demanded a trade like Savard did and it is clear that Comrie has a bad attitude as well. The only difference is the Gilbert factor.
Savard scored 33 points in his last full season with the flames... Comrie got 51 last year.

I'm sorry... that doesn't equate to just as well, IMHO.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:22 AM
  #32
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Funny... out of the top 25 scorers last year, only 9 were bigger than 6'2 210 lbs.

So yeah, if talent, speed, shooting, etc are all the same, the bigger guys is a better player.

But it doesn't mean that you pick a bigger player over a smaller, more talented one.

I agree.

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:24 AM
  #33
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Savard scored 33 points in his last full season with the flames... Comrie got 51 last year.

I'm sorry... that doesn't equate to just as well, IMHO.
Savard played 50 some odd games that season, plus he was 2nd line. Comrie has been given 1st line icetime every year. Look the year before buddy, what do the stats look like that year ?? Funny, you only post the numbers from the year where Comrie outscores Savard with way more icetime and playing more games. Typical Oilers fan !!

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:29 AM
  #34
H-Bear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Bay ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
Savard played 50 some odd games that season, plus he was 2nd line. Comrie has been given 1st line icetime every year. Look the year before buddy, what do the stats look like that year ?? Funny, you only post the numbers from the year where Comrie outscores Savard with way more icetime and playing more games. Typical Oilers fan !!
If you go by that, you are forgeting that Comrie missed much of last season with a broken thumb. He came back early, and finished the season (and playoffs) with a partially healed thumb.

Have you ever broken a bone? It takes a long time to a) heal, and b) get over it mentally enough to compete fully in hockey.

H-Bear is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:30 AM
  #35
Ryno
BEHOLD!!
 
Ryno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: G.P
Country: Canada
Posts: 529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
So anyone that comes in here and is realistic about Comrie's worth is automatically a troll. I see how this works. If anyone says anything that you Oilers fans don't agree with, that's a troll. LOL !!

Just thought I would wake you guys up from those trade dreams. Can anyone say "Marc Savard" or "Ruslan Zainullin" ???
I tell ya what. I've been reading a lot of books on cults lately, and what I've discovered is that they all share some similarities. Trolls are very similar, so I'll give you the rundown on the list (no need to that me)

1). Trolls take a hardline stance on something regardless of fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield

Face it, there is little value in Mike Comrie these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield

Can anyone say "Marc Savard" or "Ruslan Zainullin" ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield

Just thought I would wake you guys up from those trade dreams.
Actually, since Comrie announced that he will play for much less than his qualifier, I would assume his value would be high, as EVERY team in te NHL could afford to pay him. I don't know what Comrie'll end up going for, but I don't present my lack of information as fact.

2). Trolls tend to present statements that tend to go against sound reasoning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield

The Flyers would never give up a 6'5 C for a 5'8 C
Never, eh? So, you've taken this from the horses mouth, so to speak? That's strange, because a 5'9 C in Claude LaPointe is playing on the team right now...Surely there must be some 6'5 C playing in the ECHL that Clarke would LOVE to have in place of Lapointe, by your reasoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield

Phaneuf is going to be a dominant D-man in this league while Comrie has 2nd line centre written all over him.
Please show me the number of second-line centremen that scored more than 33 goals in the last couple of seasons...

You know what? I'd be satisfied with the number of 2nd year players that have outscored (yes, goals) Comrie since 2001-02. If you can name 5 I'll give you a prize.

3). Trolls always deny that they are, in fact trolls, and try to play the martyr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield

So anyone that comes in here and is realistic about Comrie's worth is automatically a troll. I see how this works. If anyone says anything that you Oilers fans don't agree with, that's a troll. LOL !!
Awww, these terrible, big meanie Oiler fans are picking on the guy who knows the real value of Comrie, tells the truth in all posts, and has got his finger on the pulse of the NHL...

Have a nice day

Ryno is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:40 AM
  #36
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Savard scored 33 points in his last full season with the flames... Comrie got 51 last year.

I'm sorry... that doesn't equate to just as well, IMHO.
Comrie's days in EDM compared to Savard's days in CGY:

Comrie - 192GP 61G 72A 133PT
Savard- 221GP 60G 94A 154PT

That equates pretty good to me. You can use whatever stats you want to prove your case but this is pretty obvious that Mike's value should be no more than that of Savrad, except for the whole Gilbert situation. So IMO, Comrie gets a little more than a Zailnullin !!

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:42 AM
  #37
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by comrie
If you go by that, you are forgeting that Comrie missed much of last season with a broken thumb. He came back early, and finished the season (and playoffs) with a partially healed thumb.

Have you ever broken a bone? It takes a long time to a) heal, and b) get over it mentally enough to compete fully in hockey.
Nobody mentioned last year buddy. He was comparing stats from the year before. Thanks for coming out !!

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:44 AM
  #38
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryno
I tell ya what. I've been reading a lot of books on cults lately, and what I've discovered is that they all share some similarities. Trolls are very similar, so I'll give you the rundown on the list (no need to that me)

1). Trolls take a hardline stance on something regardless of fact.







Actually, since Comrie announced that he will play for much less than his qualifier, I would assume his value would be high, as EVERY team in te NHL could afford to pay him. I don't know what Comrie'll end up going for, but I don't present my lack of information as fact.

2). Trolls tend to present statements that tend to go against sound reasoning



Never, eh? So, you've taken this from the horses mouth, so to speak? That's strange, because a 5'9 C in Claude LaPointe is playing on the team right now...Surely there must be some 6'5 C playing in the ECHL that Clarke would LOVE to have in place of Lapointe, by your reasoning.



Please show me the number of second-line centremen that scored more than 33 goals in the last couple of seasons...

You know what? I'd be satisfied with the number of 2nd year players that have outscored (yes, goals) Comrie since 2001-02. If you can name 5 I'll give you a prize.

3). Trolls always deny that they are, in fact trolls, and try to play the martyr



Awww, these terrible, big meanie Oiler fans are picking on the guy who knows the real value of Comrie, tells the truth in all posts, and has got his finger on the pulse of the NHL...

Have a nice day

Blah, Blah, Blah !! I don't have that much time. Please keep your responses to 1 novel or less.

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:46 AM
  #39
Ryno
BEHOLD!!
 
Ryno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: G.P
Country: Canada
Posts: 529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
Blah, Blah, Blah !! I don't have that much time. Please keep your responses to 1 novel or less.
I know, the truth hurts, doesn't it?

Ryno is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:51 AM
  #40
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryno
I know, the truth hurts, doesn't it?
No, honestly, I didn't read it.

I just don't think Comrie is as good as some OIlers fans do. I'm not trolling (regardless of what the troll expert says), I am simply trying to grasp why he is so overrated in Edmonton...that's all.

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:52 AM
  #41
Cawz
Registered User
 
Cawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oiler fan in Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
Blah, Blah, Blah !! I don't have that much time. Please keep your responses to 1 novel or less.
You seem to have tons of time with the amount of posts youre typing.

How much have you watched Comrie play? How about Savard?

I'll bet you know very little about what you are arguing about. Watching TSN every night doesnt make you an expert. Let it go.

Cawz is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:56 AM
  #42
Chayos
Registered User
 
Chayos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon
Posts: 2,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
So anyone that comes in here and is realistic about Comrie's worth is automatically a troll. I see how this works. If anyone says anything that you Oilers fans don't agree with, that's a troll. LOL !!

Just thought I would wake you guys up from those trade dreams. Can anyone say "Marc Savard" or "Ruslan Zainullin" ???
Hmm well you just shot your self in the butt on that one. You are thinking to compare the absolute goof that Cal made giving away savard to this deal. People who saw what calgary paid and what savard was doing upto his injury will understand why comrie will get more now. Lowe will use the Savard trade as his reasoning for wanting more not less for comrie.

Chayos is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:03 AM
  #43
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz
You seem to have tons of time with the amount of posts youre typing.

How much have you watched Comrie play? How about Savard?

I'll bet you know very little about what you are arguing about. Watching TSN every night doesnt make you an expert. Let it go.
I have seen just as much of both than you have. I have NHL Centre Ice Package and I watch at least 3 or 4 games a night, so don't give me that lame "have you seen him play" crap. What makes you an expert ?? I am as knowledgeable a fan you are going to find on this board and just because I disagree with your value on Comrie does not mean anything other than just that. We disagree.

I live in PEI, yes, does that mean I have less hockey knowledge, NO !!

I watch many games and follow all 30 teams. I watch the drafts and I keep up to date on the Euro leagues, AHL, CHL etc.... I am a coach myself and I am very good at noticing talent. I did some scouting for a Jr A team that won a National Championship 6 years ago. Not one thing in any of my posts says that I do ot know hockey. You guys are just too much of homers to listen to someone else's opinion.

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:05 AM
  #44
HellsBells
Registered User
 
HellsBells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chayos1
Hmm well you just shot your self in the butt on that one. You are thinking to compare the absolute goof that Cal made giving away savard to this deal. People who saw what calgary paid and what savard was doing upto his injury will understand why comrie will get more now. Lowe will use the Savard trade as his reasoning for wanting more not less for comrie.
You have it all wrong. I admitted that Comrie has more value than Savard did (not much though). But Lowe does not hold all the cards. He can have Comrie sit and getting nothing out of him or he can deal hok for what is offered. The 29 other GM's hold the cards here buddy.

HellsBells is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:10 AM
  #45
H-Bear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Bay ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
You have it all wrong. I admitted that Comrie has more value than Savard did (not much though). But Lowe does not hold all the cards. He can have Comrie sit and getting nothing out of him or he can deal hok for what is offered. The 29 other GM's hold the cards here buddy.
First of all, I understand that the "o" and "i", as well as the "k" and "m" buttons are very close to one another, but please re-read your statement before you post. It took me several tries through the sentence to figure out "hok" = "him".

Second. In every deal the other 29 GMs have the upper hand. That's just a matter of fact. That, however, does not stop a GM from making a stupid trade (Milbury has many good examples of this).

H-Bear is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:20 AM
  #46
Mr Sakich
Registered User
 
Mr Sakich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Motel 35
Posts: 8,056
vCash: 500
I think everyone should understand the savard situation a little more clearly before commenting on button's performance. Marc had a 65 point breakout year followed by a 33 point disappointing year where he foought with his coach through the media.

It was common knowledge that Gilbert was on his last legs going into 2002-3. He needed his team to come out of the gate strong to keep his job. Buttons was also at the end of his contract. Savard is the number 1 centre and the 2nd most important offensive player.

HE SHOWS UP TO CAMP FAT !!!

He wasn't a little overweight, the media was all over him because he spent the summer at a Baskin Robins instead of the gym. He wasn't benched because of his attitude, it was his conditioning and performance. The fact that he turned it around so quickly in Atlanta surprised everyone who was close to the situation.

Sure buttons got nothing for him but other gm read the paers and were offering nothing for him.

Mr Sakich is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:23 AM
  #47
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
You have it all wrong. I admitted that Comrie has more value than Savard did (not much though). But Lowe does not hold all the cards. He can have Comrie sit and getting nothing out of him or he can deal hok for what is offered. The 29 other GM's hold the cards here buddy.
Alright, we know your opinion and don't care what it is, and would like you to just go away.

Slats432 is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:25 AM
  #48
Boondock Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
C & W are different positions, eh. Size is more important for a Centre. I can't believe I have to explain this. Face it, Bobby Clarke has already said he has no use for Comrie and he has no room for him as he is very happy with his C-men. All things being equal, size rules !! This is grade 1 hockey stuff.
Tell this to the New Jersey Devils, who won the cup with Brylin, Madden and Gomez down the middle.

How far have those massive centermen taken Philly in the playoffs??

Not passed Ottawa or New Jersey, who are both full of undersized centerman.

All things being equal, size is better. But, with a bigger player vs. a smaller player, all things are very seldom equal. Smaller players are quicker, more agile, etc. which is just as important in defensive zone coverage as is dominance on the boards, as centermen need to cover a lot ice.

Don't oversimplify things a la Bobby Clarke. Bigger isn't always better.

You are very simple minded.

Boondock Saint is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:37 AM
  #49
Cawz
Registered User
 
Cawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oiler fan in Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
I have seen just as much of both than you have. I have NHL Centre Ice Package and I watch at least 3 or 4 games a night, so don't give me that lame "have you seen him play" crap. What makes you an expert ?? I am as knowledgeable a fan you are going to find on this board and just because I disagree with your value on Comrie does not mean anything other than just that. We disagree.

I live in PEI, yes, does that mean I have less hockey knowledge, NO !!

I watch many games and follow all 30 teams. I watch the drafts and I keep up to date on the Euro leagues, AHL, CHL etc.... I am a coach myself and I am very good at noticing talent. I did some scouting for a Jr A team that won a National Championship 6 years ago. Not one thing in any of my posts says that I do ot know hockey. You guys are just too much of homers to listen to someone else's opinion.
This has nothing to do with PEI, although you are probably in bed when the Oil are playing anyways. You are just very opinionated about things you know little about (Comrie, not hockey).

You said Comrie never scored a playoff clutch goal. He scored an overtime winner against Dallas in his first year. Is that clutch enough for you? He was clutch 2 years ago, and ever since I saw him score against Hasek on an individual effort with 5 seconds to go (in Detriot) to tie the game, I knew he was money. That was more clutch than any Oiler I've seen in a long time. Last year, he was injured and played badly.

My brother-in-law played against him (and got into a fight with him) before he played for the Ice and he was an all-star back then. Comrie lit it up in the Young Stars game. He has raw talent and great hockey sense. I really hope he stays with the team and regains his form. It looks doubtful though.

He has the potential to be a top star in the game. If you cant see that, then stick to your guns and we’ll all smile and nod at you. You seem like the clueless people basing arguements an last year alone, ignoring junior scouting reports and year 1 and 2 results. You should know better, judging your hockey connections.

Cawz is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:52 AM
  #50
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
Nobody mentioned last year buddy. He was comparing stats from the year before. Thanks for coming out !!
Actually, I was comparing Comrie's last season with the Oilers (last year) with Savard's last season with Calgary.

Afterall you said during their times with those respective seasons, Savard was about the same as Comrie.

If you want a detailed breakdown, here it goes:

Savard
1999-00 78 22 31 53 -2
2000-01 77 23 42 65 -12
2001-02 56 14 19 33 -18 <<<<<< Comparison year

Comrie
2000-01 41 8 14 22 +6
2001-02 82 33 27 60 +16
2002-03 69 20 31 51 -18 <<<<<< Comparison year

Now, add to the equation that Comrie picked up his 60 point season in his second year, where Savard did it in his 4th, and Comrie did it as a 20 year old, where Savard did it at 23.

That is 3 years of development Savard had on Comrie, so comparing them at face value is meaningless.

dawgbone is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.