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Too many players LOVE playing against Edmonton

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11-12-2003, 05:47 AM
  #1
metallicat
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Too many players LOVE playing against Edmonton

Why? I don't know forsure, but it is probably because they can exploit weaknesses rather easily unless the Oilers catch on to them. Here is a quote from Joe Thornton in today's Edmonton Journal:

"I love watching the Oilers. They play a run n' gun style and they don't set up the trap. It's an enjoyable game to watch. It's one of the most enjoyable games to play too."

So why are we letting these guys enjoy playing against Edmonton? And this isn't the first time we hear about this. This is Edmonton's claim to fame, good, fast hockey. I am not saying we need to totally re-arange our style of play, but something needs to give. And it is also not as if I think the Oilers are playing overly poorly right now. They have a record that if it stays consistant, probably won't get them into the playoffs, so something does need to change.

I would say that we need to make it hard to play against us. Forcheck like there is no tomorrow. Bang bodies. Get guys like Torres and Isbister to go hard after guys and put their ass of the ice.

If you do some things like that, Thornton's quote could be more like this:

"It's really hard playing against Edmonton. They like to bang the body, and it's hard for us to make that outlet pass without having a guy right on us. It's not overly fun playing these guys."

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11-12-2003, 05:58 AM
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I think he was saying he would like to play that way.

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11-12-2003, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicat
Why? I don't know forsure, but it is probably because they can exploit weaknesses rather easily unless the Oilers catch on to them. Here is a quote from Joe Thornton in today's Edmonton Journal:

"I love watching the Oilers. They play a run n' gun style and they don't set up the trap. It's an enjoyable game to watch. It's one of the most enjoyable games to play too."

So why are we letting these guys enjoy playing against Edmonton? And this isn't the first time we hear about this. This is Edmonton's claim to fame, good, fast hockey. I am not saying we need to totally re-arange our style of play, but something needs to give. And it is also not as if I think the Oilers are playing overly poorly right now. They have a record that if it stays consistant, probably won't get them into the playoffs, so something does need to change.

I would say that we need to make it hard to play against us. Forcheck like there is no tomorrow. Bang bodies. Get guys like Torres and Isbister to go hard after guys and put their ass of the ice.

If you do some things like that, Thornton's quote could be more like this:

"It's really hard playing against Edmonton. They like to bang the body, and it's hard for us to make that outlet pass without having a guy right on us. It's not overly fun playing these guys."
Joe Thorton the other day threatened to retire at the end of the season because he is sick of the clutching and grabbing.

Of course he loves to play against Edmonton because that is the kind of hockey he loves to play. I guarantee that even if Edmonton had been absolutely hammering him all game long with body checks he would have said the same thing.

It's not physical play he doesn't like, it's the clutching and slowing down he hates.

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11-12-2003, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Joe Thorton the other day threatened to retire at the end of the season because he is sick of the clutching and grabbing.

Of course he loves to play against Edmonton because that is the kind of hockey he loves to play. I guarantee that even if Edmonton had been absolutely hammering him all game long with body checks he would have said the same thing.

It's not physical play he doesn't like, it's the clutching and slowing down he hates.
Exactly, so lets start banging more bodies and getting them pissed off at us.

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11-12-2003, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicat
Exactly, so lets start banging more bodies and getting them pissed off at us.
You are missing the point. He, along with everyone in the league likes to have hockey without the clutching and grabbing.

It has nothing to do with being easy to play against.

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11-12-2003, 06:07 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicat
Exactly, so lets start banging more bodies and getting them pissed off at us.
You are out in left field, and it isn't even the right park...

To have pissed him off, the Oilers would have had to have been clutching and grabbing... or playing dirty...

In either case, I would rather not watch that crap.

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11-12-2003, 06:08 AM
  #7
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I think you are taking the quote a little out of context.

The way I read it, Thornton is basically saying that the style of games the Oilers play is the way the game is supposed to be played. It's more of a shot at the 24 other teams in the league that refuse to play hockey the way it was meant to be played and simply try and grind out a couple points by playing the trap.

A guy like Thornton who is an offensive player with talent to burn probably never ran to the local rink looking to refine his defensive game while growing up. He went to skate hard and fast in an endless quest to score some goals. Now in the NHL he finds himself fighting through a trap for 70 of 82 games just to get one or two chances around the net per game. In a game against Edmonton he gets a chance to do what every player wants to do every single night but can't. Play the game based on talent and not simply strategy.

Just because last night he is the best talent on the ice, it doesn't mean that the Oilers need to re-think their approach. It's going to happen with playing against certain teams, that is why some of these guys are considered the best there is today. Personally I would still rather watch 7 goals on 73 shots get scored in a losing effort than 2 or 3 goals scored on 33 shots in a winning effort.

I will agree with the thinking that our bigger guys need to make the opposing puck carriers pay more than they have. A lot of hitting on an agressive forcheck would certainly do that.

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11-12-2003, 06:19 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
I think you are taking the quote a little out of context.

The way I read it, Thornton is basically saying that the style of games the Oilers play is the way the game is supposed to be played. It's more of a shot at the 24 other teams in the league that refuse to play hockey the way it was meant to be played and simply try and grind out a couple points by playing the trap.

A guy like Thornton who is an offensive player with talent to burn probably never ran to the local rink looking to refine his defensive game while growing up. He went to skate hard and fast in an endless quest to score some goals. Now in the NHL he finds himself fighting through a trap for 70 of 82 games just to get one or two chances around the net per game. In a game against Edmonton he gets a chance to do what every player wants to do every single night but can't. Play the game based on talent and not simply strategy.

Just because last night he is the best talent on the ice, it doesn't mean that the Oilers need to re-think their approach. It's going to happen with playing against certain teams, that is why some of these guys are considered the best there is today. Personally I would still rather watch 7 goals on 73 shots get scored in a losing effort than 2 or 3 goals scored on 33 shots in a winning effort.

I will agree with the thinking that our bigger guys need to make the opposing puck carriers pay more than they have. A lot of hitting on an agressive forcheck would certainly do that.
Maybe he'll demand to play for the Oilers a year from now.

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11-12-2003, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Maybe he'll demand to play for the Oilers a year from now.
Comrie

for

Thorton

Straight up... if he retires, the B's lose him for nothing, and Comrie is a little better than nothing!!!!


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11-12-2003, 06:23 AM
  #10
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Well I have posted before that the Oilers would be VERY VERY affective if they used the trap on occasion. It would completely catch teams off guard, and they wouldn't be prepared for it. Don't get me wrong - I wish the NHL would outlaw the trap so that it's like NBA's illegal defense - but until they do, I think we are being foolish to not embrace a winning style of play.

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11-12-2003, 06:26 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I wish the NHL would outlaw the trap so that it's like NBA's illegal defense - but until they do, I think we are being foolish to not embrace a winning style of play.
I'd rather an entertaining style of play... I am happier with a 6-7-2 record with this style of play as opposed to being 9-4-1 playing the trap.

I didn't pay for the NHL centreice package to watch the Oilers win... I paid to watch the Oilers play a brand of hockey that has always entertained me.

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11-12-2003, 06:33 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I'd rather an entertaining style of play... I am happier with a 6-7-2 record with this style of play as opposed to being 9-4-1 playing the trap.

I didn't pay for the NHL centreice package to watch the Oilers win... I paid to watch the Oilers play a brand of hockey that has always entertained me.
I guess that's where we are different. The Oilers don't have to skate fast and recklessly forcheck to entertain me. I pay to watch them win - winning is more entertaining to me then skating fast and forchecking. I guess that's just my opinion, but I'd gladly watch them trap if it ment that big of a difference as what you mentioned.

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11-12-2003, 06:38 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I guess that's where we are different. The Oilers don't have to skate fast and recklessly forcheck to entertain me. I pay to watch them win - winning is more entertaining to me then skating fast and forchecking. I guess that's just my opinion, but I'd gladly watch them trap if it ment that big of a difference as what you mentioned.
The trap slows down the game so much, and the Oilers don't have any impact players that will put up numbers under that type of system.

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11-12-2003, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
The trap slows down the game so much, and the Oilers don't have any impact players that will put up numbers under that type of system.
A few weeks ago on the Team 1200 in Ottawa, Muckler was talking about how Ottawa plays a version of the trap and that it has worked well for them because they have so much speed that when they stop the opposing team at centre ice, their transistion game generates a good scoring chance.

In no wayam I saying that the Oilers should start traping, but I think it's teams like Minny and Jersey who give the trap a bad name. Used a certain way, it could still provide exciting hockey.

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11-12-2003, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
A few weeks ago on the Team 1200 in Ottawa, Muckler was talking about how Ottawa plays a version of the trap and that it has worked well for them because they have so much speed that when they stop the opposing team at centre ice, their transistion game generates a good scoring chance.

In no wayam I saying that the Oilers should start traping, but I think it's teams like Minny and Jersey who give the trap a bad name. Used a certain way, it could still provide exciting hockey.
EXACTLY! The Oilers have a team that would be a very good trapping squad! I mean we are ALOT bigger now so that isn't an issue, and our speed is second to none, which is essential to have a highly succesful trap like NJ and the Sens. I mean I wish I could watch the Oilers play the Oilers. They should try and implicate rules that will force teams to play an agressive skating game - a.k.a. Oilers hockey. But until that day, I don't like seeing yet another disadvantage placed in front of the Oilers then they can possibly avoid.

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11-12-2003, 07:02 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
You are missing the point. He, along with everyone in the league likes to have hockey without the clutching and grabbing.

It has nothing to do with being easy to play against.
Clutch and grab, IMO, is caused by 2 things:

1. lack of consistent enforcement of the rules
2. too many teams resulting in watering down of talent. There are many players who are only able to compete by clutch and grab. Skill players such as Thorton are right to complain.

 
Old
11-12-2003, 07:09 AM
  #17
thome_26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
Clutch and grab, IMO, is caused by 2 things:

1. lack of consistent enforcement of the rules
2. too many teams resulting in watering down of talent. There are many players who are only able to compete by clutch and grab. Skill players such as Thorton are right to complain.
THe NHL isn't to watered down. There are LOTS of good players around the world that could play in the NHL.

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11-12-2003, 07:13 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
THe NHL isn't to watered down. There are LOTS of good players around the world that could play in the NHL.
Jiri Dopita was supposed to be the best player in the world not playing in the NHL...

The NHL talentpool is very watered down... with the possible exception being goaltending which is at an alltime high in terms of talent.

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11-12-2003, 10:20 AM
  #19
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I wouldn't start crying if the Oilers threw out the trap in certain game situations.

It seems when ever this trap topic comes up, people take too much of an "all or nothing" approach.

In a 4-2 game with 20 minutes left, I wouldn't mind it if the opposition only managed another 4 shots on goal and had trouble ever entering the Oilers end until the final buzzer.

I'm not saying they need to come out in the 1st period like that. They can try to jump on opponents with their speed. Some games they will get behind and have to play catch up (they seem to be doing alot of that), and other games where they are sitting good with 20 minutes left, (enter trap) keep the puck out of their zone.

This of course doesn't mean icing the puck all period like that one stretch 2 seasons ago......lol. That was "panic ala disaster" in a string of games the Oilers gave away leads in the 3rd. (the face-offs would destroy us anyway)

So I guess all I'm saying it wouldn't bother me to see the Oilers add another dimension to their game. When they do throw the dreaded "T" word out there I feel with the way the Oilers can pick off passes and turn on the jets, it could even help them put games out of reach.

Not all the time.....just the right time.

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Old
11-15-2003, 02:18 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
I wouldn't start crying if the Oilers threw out the trap in certain game situations.
Ditto. Like dawgbone, I paid good money for Centre Ice to watch the Oilers, and I mostly watch because they play hockey the way I grew up loving it. That being said, I don't mind seeing them get the W either - especially since enough of those means two things: 1) more games in the playoffs, and 2) I get to make fun of my Leafs-fans co-workers.

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11-18-2003, 05:19 PM
  #21
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All of you guys are missing what I am talking about here. If you listened to Don Cherry's Grapeline today, you would have heard exactly what I was talking about, and if you listen tomorrow, Grapes is going to talk about it some more.

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11-18-2003, 05:45 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicat
All of you guys are missing what I am talking about here. If you listened to Don Cherry's Grapeline today, you would have heard exactly what I was talking about, and if you listen tomorrow, Grapes is going to talk about it some more.
I did listen to it... and what he simply said is that it sounds bad, when it really isn't.

You are just reading into it wrong.

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11-18-2003, 05:51 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I did listen to it... and what he simply said is that it sounds bad, when it really isn't.

You are just reading into it wrong.
Maybe I am just not getting my point across the way I am actually thinking about it in my head, but basically what Don Cherry was saying is what I was saying. Unless he was joking, then I am on my own.

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11-18-2003, 06:03 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicat
Maybe I am just not getting my point across the way I am actually thinking about it in my head, but basically what Don Cherry was saying is what I was saying. Unless he was joking, then I am on my own.
Cherry was talking about how Joe made it sound like he loves playing against the Oilers because he thinks he will get a win and pick up a goal and 2 assists... but the fact is, with the exception of the last game, Thornton has really struggled against the Oilers. It was simply a perception of the difference between what you mean and what you say.

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Old
11-19-2003, 09:04 AM
  #25
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Cherry and Ron MacLean were debating this issue Saturday night on Coaches Corner.

Cherry said Edmonton needs to "play tight" not "trap". He said you don't want teams to love playing against you, you want them to hate playing against you.

wide open hockey is great as long as you're winning. it's working for now but it will have to change in the playoffs if we want any chance of advancing past the 1st round.

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