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Cammi re-signs, 1yr deal

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Old
07-28-2006, 12:59 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Everyone is expecting some breakout season from Cammalleri, a guy who's been far more inconsistent than the ever improving Frolov.
Err...how is Cammalleri inconsistent? He's improved every year and was one of most consistent players on the team last year. Calling him inconsistent makes about as much sense, IMO, as the guy who said today that he had an "injury history."

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07-28-2006, 01:21 AM
  #52
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Bonuses count against the cap, as well.
Only if they are achieved my friend.....only if they are achieved.

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07-28-2006, 01:39 AM
  #53
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Only if they are achieved my friend.....only if they are achieved.
I'm pretty sure that that's not true. I'm not sure where you're getting that they don't, because I thought that it was fairly common knowledge that they do count.
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Having gone through one season with a player — Bondra — having bonuses on his contract, Waddell said it's not something he is eager to do again; namely with Scott Mellanby. Under the new CBA, the only players eligible for bonuses are players on entry-level contracts, players who are 35 and older (like Mellanby) and players who have played 400 games or more and have missed 100 days because of injury the previous season (but only if they sign a one-year contract).

The problem with offering bonuses is that they all count against a team's salary cap until it is impossible for the player to fulfill them. Thus, Bondra's $2.9 million in possible bonuses — all of which involved the team's ability to make the playoffs — all counted against the cap until the final day of the season when the team was eliminated from the playoffs.

Thus, even though $1.15 million of those bonuses went unpaid, they affected Waddell's ability to make a move at times during the season.
If you have a counter-example, I'd love to see it.

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07-28-2006, 02:17 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
I'm pretty sure that that's not true. I'm not sure where you're getting that they don't, because I thought that it was fairly common knowledge that they do count.If you have a counter-example, I'd love to see it.
OK......you asked for it.....

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...hlinsider.html

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Five teams — including the Thrashers — went over the NHL's inaugural salary cap limit of $39 million in 2005-06.


In their case, it was because of the $1.75 million performance bonus paid to winger Peter Bondra at season's end that will count against the Thrashers' cap in the neighborhood of about $1 million towards next season's limit, which was formally announced on Tuesday as being $44 million with a $28-million bottom limit.
The league allowed Atlanta to go over the cap with some of Bondra's bonuses.......so I am not saying the Kings would want to do this.....but they could if they really wanted to. Which was what my original point was. That the Kings would not need to have alot of room to fit an incentive laden contract (like what Nolan would receive) under the cap.

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07-28-2006, 02:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
That's too funny. If you'll notice, that's the same article that I pulled my quote from . Apparently, that author said one thing and then the complete opposite, all in the space of a single article. I think that we just proved that neither of our examples is trustworthy .

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07-28-2006, 02:59 AM
  #56
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?????? from your own link ...

Quote:
The problem with offering bonuses is that they all count against a team's salary cap until it is impossible for the player to fulfill them.

Thus, Bondra's $2.9 million in possible bonuses all of which involved the team's ability to make the playoffs all counted against the cap until the final day of the season when the team was eliminated from the playoffs.

Thus, even though $1.15 million of those bonuses went unpaid, they affected Waddell's ability to make a move at times during the season.

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07-28-2006, 08:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
That's too funny. If you'll notice, that's the same article that I pulled my quote from . Apparently, that author said one thing and then the complete opposite, all in the space of a single article. I think that we just proved that neither of our examples is trustworthy .
That's what I get for trusting the media.

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07-29-2006, 12:05 PM
  #58
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Performance Bonuses are counted and are figured into the Averaged Club Salary until they are impossible to attain.

However, the clubs Average Club Salary can exceed the cap by NO MORE 7.5% as a result of performance bonuses (performance bonus cushion). At the end of the season after the bonuses are paid, if the club is over the maximum salary for that year, the team's Upper Limit the following year is reduced by the amount they were over.

50.5(h)....


Last edited by No One: 07-29-2006 at 12:23 PM.
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07-29-2006, 12:25 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Oh I'm fine with it. And who's to say that he wont live up to being a franchise player? Everyone is expecting some breakout season from Cammalleri, a guy who's been far more inconsistent than the ever improving Frolov.
More inconsistent than Frolov? Don't get me wrong, Alex is one of my fav, but I remind you that Alex played the whole season on the 1st line and after a great start he faded. Mike was pretty consistent this past season.

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07-29-2006, 01:28 PM
  #60
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More inconsistent than Frolov? Don't get me wrong, Alex is one of my fav, but I remind you that Alex played the whole season on the 1st line and after a great start he faded. Mike was pretty consistent this past season.
I expect big things out of both of them this year. I think we will find out this season what kind of players they will be. Hopefully both of them break out and score 30+ goals.

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07-29-2006, 03:03 PM
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If anyone caught the GM Breakfast this morning, I found it interesting that DL singled Frolov out as someone that they had to get to produce more...and, you know what? I find it interesting even if you didn't catch it.

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07-29-2006, 03:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LeftKinger View Post
I expect big things out of both of them this year. I think we will find out this season what kind of players they will be. Hopefully both of them break out and score 30+ goals.
I wouldn't call 30 goals from either of them "breaking out." Cammy had 26 last season without good linemates, and Frolov had 21 last season and 24 the year before the lockout.

30 goals would be a progression for both of them, which is always nice. But 35-40 would be what it takes to call it a "break out" season for either of them.

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07-29-2006, 03:30 PM
  #63
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If anyone caught the GM Breakfast this morning, I found it interesting that DL singled Frolov out as someone that they had to get to produce more...and, you know what? I find it interesting even if you didn't catch it.
Can we get a recap? Please

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07-29-2006, 03:46 PM
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Can we get a recap? Please
You can probably get a more comprehensive one at LGK. And I'm sure the Kings site will have the recording of it up pretty soon.

It was a very intriguing session with Lombardi, Crawford and Hextall.

Dean and Crow were veyr candid and addressed a lot of issues that have been under the microscope around here as of late.

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07-30-2006, 01:46 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by No One View Post
Performance Bonuses are counted and are figured into the Averaged Club Salary until they are impossible to attain.

However, the clubs Average Club Salary can exceed the cap by NO MORE 7.5% as a result of performance bonuses (performance bonus cushion). At the end of the season after the bonuses are paid, if the club is over the maximum salary for that year, the team's Upper Limit the following year is reduced by the amount they were over.

50.5(h)....
Good find, No One! Now that I think that I understand this correctly, here's my shot at explaining it simply...

All potential bonuses count against the cap for the current year. You can go over the cap by as much as 7.5% due to potential bonuses. At the end of the year, the cap is re-calculated, taking into account only the bonus amount that was earned. If the team is still over the cap, then the excess amount counts against next year's cap.

For example, let's say that a team in 06-07 is at $43M ($1M under the cap) and wants to offer $3M in potential bonuses to a player. They can do that, but they'll be capped out and won't be able to make some moves during the season. Now, fast-forward to the end of the year. Suppose that the player earned $2M of his potential $3M in bonuses. Since the actual earned amount puts the team over by $1M, the team will have that $1M count against their cap for 07-08. This double-whammy situation (hurting your flexibility the current year and the following year) appears to be how Waddell hurt the Thrashers with Bondra's contract.

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07-30-2006, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
Good find, No One! Now that I think that I understand this correctly, here's my shot at explaining it simply...

All potential bonuses count against the cap for the current year. You can go over the cap by as much as 7.5% due to potential bonuses. At the end of the year, the cap is re-calculated, taking into account only the bonus amount that was earned. If the team is still over the cap, then the excess amount counts against next year's cap.

For example, let's say that a team in 06-07 is at $43M ($1M under the cap) and wants to offer $3M in potential bonuses to a player. They can do that, but they'll be capped out and won't be able to make some moves during the season. Now, fast-forward to the end of the year. Suppose that the player earned $2M of his potential $3M in bonuses. Since the actual earned amount puts the team over by $1M, the team will have that $1M count against their cap for 07-08. This double-whammy situation (hurting your flexibility the current year and the following year) appears to be how Waddell hurt the Thrashers with Bondra's contract.

Correct....that is why I was saying the Kings could sign Nolan to an incentive based contract and go over the $44 million cap. That is why they would not really need room to fit him in. Even though I wouldn't really see Lombardi doing this. But I was just giving an example scenario.

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07-30-2006, 02:27 AM
  #67
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Correct....that is why I was saying the Kings could sign Nolan to an incentive based contract and go over the $44 million cap. That is why they would not really need room to fit him in. Even though I wouldn't really see Lombardi doing this. But I was just giving an example scenario.
You agree that going over the cap is unwise and not something that Lombardi is likely to do... so why did you argue with me that having more cap room wouldn't make any difference in signing Nolan?

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07-30-2006, 02:49 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
You agree that going over the cap is unwise and not something that Lombardi is likely to do... so why did you argue with me that having more cap room wouldn't make any difference in signing Nolan?
I was just stating that it was not necessary to make room for a Nolan contract......since all of his bonuses are unlikely to be attained. Also the bonuses would not really use up all of the remaining cap space because the team would be allowed to exceed the cap if necessary. So with the Kings sitting at about $40 million right now.....if Cammi was signed to a $2.5 million contract instead the Kings cap figure would be about $41 million. The Kings would still be able to sign Nolan to a $4 million incentive laden contract and not have to worry about it because they would be allowed to exceed the cap....and most likely Nolan would not achieve all of the bonuses to cause cap loss for next year.

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07-30-2006, 03:06 AM
  #69
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Also the bonuses would not really use up all of the remaining cap space because the team would be allowed to exceed the cap if necessary.
That doesn't make sense. If you're exceeding the cap, you've used up all free cap space.

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07-30-2006, 01:26 PM
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That doesn't make sense. If you're exceeding the cap, you've used up all free cap space.
OK.....you said that by signing Cammalleri to a contract that is about $800 thousand less than he could have that Lombardi would have room to sign Nolan.

I am saying that because of articale 50.5(h) in the CBA that the Kings could exceed the cap by $800 thousand or more in order to sign Nolan to an incentive contract. So my point was that the Cammalleri contract has no influence on whether or not they could acquire Nolan.

Make sense yet?

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07-30-2006, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
I am saying that because of articale 50.5(h) in the CBA that the Kings could exceed the cap by $800 thousand or more in order to sign Nolan to an incentive contract. So my point was that the Cammalleri contract has no influence on whether or not they could acquire Nolan.
Lombardi is not willing to exceed the cap, so $800K more room does make a difference. Why is that so hard for you to understand and agree with?

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07-31-2006, 12:30 AM
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Lombardi is not willing to exceed the cap, so $800K more room does make a difference. Why is that so hard for you to understand and agree with?
OK how about this......the Kings are sitting at about $40 million for a 23 man roster. If Cammalleri was awarded $800 thousand more then the Cap# would be about $41 million. That would leave more than $3 million to get Nolan (if Lombardi really wanted him). I say anything above $2 million is extreme overpayment for Nolan's services. So this whole cap space debate is ridiculous......unless you are trying to suggest that Nolan is worth a contract in excess of $3 million. If so then you will have a hard time convincing me and many others on these boards of that.

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07-31-2006, 01:41 AM
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You seem to forget that Gleason and Brown aren't signed and it's desirable to have a little space under the cap for flexibility during the season.

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07-31-2006, 02:52 AM
  #74
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You seem to forget that Gleason and Brown aren't signed and it's desirable to have a little space under the cap for flexibility during the season.
The cap figures I used would be with both Gleason and Brown signing for about $1.25 million contracts (which will probably be the case). So like I said $41 million for a 23 man roster and $2 million (preferably less) for Nolan would leave the Kings with $1 million in cap space. So that would be plenty of room for flexibilty. But this is all still just speculation about Nolan.

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