I know, but you can't give credit to one player for making the NHL at a young age and criticise another for not, and then credit his teammates for his production when he does make it. The Senators had the luxury to develop him in the minors. It was not Spezza's choice.
You got me all wrong
I wasn´t trying to give Marleau credit, neither was I trying to "down" Spezza... I was just trying to say that Marleau´s career-numbers (PPG) would look better if he had the same time in the minors and would not have had a lot of 0,5 PPG-seasons in his early years... And talented linemates would have helped his PPG as well...
I wasn´t trying to give Marleau credit, neither was I trying to "down" Spezza... I was just trying to say that Marleau´s career-numbers (PPG) would look better if he had the same time in the minors and would not have had a lot of 0,5 PPG-seasons in his early years... And talented linemates would have helped his PPG as well...
Even with what he has accomplished thus far I'd still build my team around the former #2 pick, playoff achiever and 86 point-getter this past year. The variable everyone seems to forget, thus seemingly and prematurely "writing him off" is the fact that he's only 26/27 years old, he still has 2-3 more years to fill out his potential, and in my mind fill those "star" shoes.
the only dissapointment is people calling him a dissapointment...
i hate these people who think that a player has to be a point per game in order to be considered acceptable
marleau rocks...and always did
Agreed. The problem was never the player but the role he was asked to play which sometimes if ever showcased his skills. That and the teams around him never were suited to his style of play.
As long as Thornton stays in town to take off the heat and draw the tough assignments, Marleau will continue to produce at a high level. If Thornton leaves, and Marleau becomes #1 again, I suspect his production will revert back to 02/03-03/04 form...maybe a little more now - he'd probably be closer to a 70pt guy in the 1st slot now...which obviously wouldn't cut it considering he doesn't kill penalties, isn't great defensively/ES, sucks at F/Os, etc..The situation he's in now - playing 2nd fiddle to JT and getting huge PP minutes is so cherry....I'd want things to stay this way for as long as possible if I were him.
Is Marleau a disappointment? Absolutely.
Is he still a good player? Yes.
How do you even compare Legwand and Tverdovsky to Marleau? I can understand this comparison before this past season, but Marleau is coming of an 86 pt season, far greater than anything Legwand has put up. Sedin over Marleau? The only reason you could make a case for this is because, as I said earlier, Marleau took a rather long time, till the age of 26, to breakout. Lehtonen? How about he plays 40 games at the NHL level before we flaunt him as a better pick than Marleau?
I don't mean to pick on any one person, but it seems the Marleau defenders are saying a lot of stuff like how he just had a good year and good playoffs, and he's still young and will improve. All of that is true, but it really has nothing to do with the question at hand, which is whether Marleau was a disappointment in his career before the NHL lockout.
I don't think anyone is foolish enough to argue that Marleau is still a disapointment. He's a star player now, the sort of guy who makes it hard to find any fault with his game.
Looks like I am not the only one who thought Marleau was a disappointment in his career, relative to his draft position and hype, until JT showed up on the scene last year.
Of course he didn´t produce eyepopping numbers in his first years in the league but he was never sourrounded by elite talent... And you can´t expect such a young player to carry a line all by himself...
Patrice Bergeron is sort of the exception here, if you factor into the equation that Brad Boyes wasn't considered that valuable a commodity before playing on PB's line.
Did I say that it NEVER happens? NO... There are even better examples, talk about Ovechkin, Staal, etc... But for every highly drafted player that jumps in right away and makes a big impact there are 4 or 5 that take some time but still become very finde players once they put it all together...
The way I see it Marleau was a disappointment until his breakout season this year. Let's face it, all us Sharks fans were pretty hard on him for his inconsistency. He finally put it all together this year and anyone who calls him a disappointment now is an idiot.
There are some reasons for why Marleau never put up that many points though. You have to take into consideration that Marleau was always getting 2nd line minutes being right behind Damphousse on the depth chart the whole time while Damphousse was in San Jose. You should also consider that he was playing for Darryl Sutter's San Jose, where the most points we'd ever see were Nolan's 84 points in 2000, Damphousse with 70 points that same year with all those passes to Nolan, and the incredible 64 points put up by Selanne in 2003.
As an aside, I find it funny that I was able to frame the discussion on my arbitrary terms by starting my comparison of #2 picks in 1991. I saw that 5-6 of the #2s from the mid to late '80s were basically busts, so I deliberately did not include them. If you compare all #2s from 1985 onwards, Marleau can hardly be considered a disapointment.
The way I see it Marleau was a disappointment until his breakout season this year. Let's face it, all us Sharks fans were pretty hard on him for his inconsistency. He finally put it all together this year and anyone who calls him a disappointment now is an idiot.
In a way, yes. Before last season, he was probably the most inconsistent player in the NHL. He would be great for a week, and then disappear the next. He improved upon that last year which was nice to see.
Having Joe Thornton helps, because I don't think Marleau is a #1 center who you can rely on. He's ok in that role, but he's much better suited on the 2nd line.
Hockey isn't just about scoring pts. Plus Marleau is a Clutch, Clutch, Clutch player. He'll smoke you in the playoffs. I guess you might be used to Alfredsson, you know scoring massive amounts of pts in the season but then not showing up in the playoffs, yeah good stuff....gooood stuff.
Hockey isn't just about scoring pts. Plus Marleau is a Clutch, Clutch, Clutch player. He'll smoke you in the playoffs. I guess you might be used to Alfredsson, you know scoring massive amounts of pts in the season but then not showing up in the playoffs, yeah good stuff....gooood stuff.
Yes becuse the Sharks have won so many Stanley Cups relative to the Sens in the last 10 years.
