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Taxing Environment scares players away from montreal!!

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07-30-2006, 09:38 AM
  #1
Sharkman316
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Taxing Environment scares players away from montreal!!

I'm just quoting some stuff out of the ottawa citizen this sunday morning about why these big things hurt montreal's chances of landing that big free agent such as Arnott and Shanahan.

1. The recent article in the national post pointed out that ville st. pierre native martin lapointe who is represented by lupien, was offered both 25 million dollar contracts from both the canadiens and the bruins in 2001 and opted for the 38% tax rate in massachusetts instead of the 48% rate in Quebec. That means lapointe just saved 2.5 million. And with Arnott choosing Nashville over montreal he saved about 13% and that equals to 2.9 million as well.

2. Lupien also stated " If you have the choice between florida and montreal - and in florida it's 85 degrees and they speak english and theres less tax and the wife can take the kids to disney world and you're not going to be bothered by the newspapers - the player is gonna take florida.

3. Stu Cowan phoned p.j stock a former hab who played 20 games with the canadiens in 2001 stated some reasons as well. "A guy who's unrestricted wants to go to and environment where he has a chance to win" "The montreal canadiens are one of the greatest organizations in hockey - at least they used to be. Unfortunately since winning the cup in 1993 they haven't made it past the second round of the playoffs." And they also haven't made the playoffs on five separate occasions. "It's not just one factor...there's a bunch of things that accumalated" stock said."It's a tough place to play. The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.

Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.

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07-30-2006, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkman316 View Post
I'm just quoting some stuff out of the ottawa citizen this sunday morning about why these big things hurt montreal's chances of landing that big free agent such as Arnott and Shanahan.

1. The recent article in the national post pointed out that ville st. pierre native martin lapointe who is represented by lupien, was offered both 25 million dollar contracts from both the canadiens and the bruins in 2001 and opted for the 38% tax rate in massachusetts instead of the 48% rate in Quebec. That means lapointe just saved 2.5 million. And with Arnott choosing Nashville over montreal he saved about 13% and that equals to 2.9 million as well.

2. Lupien also stated " If you have the choice between florida and montreal - and in florida it's 85 degrees and they speak english and theres less tax and the wife can take the kids to disney world and you're not going to be bothered by the newspapers - the player is gonna take florida.

3. Stu Cowan phoned p.j stock a former hab who played 20 games with the canadiens in 2001 stated some reasons as well. "A guy who's unrestricted wants to go to and environment where he has a chance to win" "The montreal canadiens are one of the greatest organizations in hockey - at least they used to be. Unfortunately since winning the cup in 1993 they haven't made it past the second round of the playoffs." And they also haven't made the playoffs on five separate occasions. "It's not just one factor...there's a bunch of things that accumalated" stock said."It's a tough place to play. The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.

Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.
Move your *** out there every shift, every game, Make sure you're the hero everyday, and you'll never get into trouble. Just ask Steve Bégin.

Plus about the language... It's not all that hard to learn the basics, damn it. "Bonjour, bonsoir, j'ai mal aux fesses parce que je tombe tout le temps (that's for Pierre Dagenais), une bière s'il-vous-plaît, bonne soirée, "on a donné notre 110%", "je trouve qu'on a quand même bien joué même si on a perdu 4-0""... That's all a guy has to know to please me!

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07-30-2006, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkman316 View Post
I'm just quoting some stuff out of the ottawa citizen this sunday morning about why these big things hurt montreal's chances of landing that big free agent such as Arnott and Shanahan.

1. The recent article in the national post pointed out that ville st. pierre native martin lapointe who is represented by lupien, was offered both 25 million dollar contracts from both the canadiens and the bruins in 2001 and opted for the 38% tax rate in massachusetts instead of the 48% rate in Quebec. That means lapointe just saved 2.5 million. And with Arnott choosing Nashville over montreal he saved about 13% and that equals to 2.9 million as well.

2. Lupien also stated " If you have the choice between florida and montreal - and in florida it's 85 degrees and they speak english and theres less tax and the wife can take the kids to disney world and you're not going to be bothered by the newspapers - the player is gonna take florida.

3. Stu Cowan phoned p.j stock a former hab who played 20 games with the canadiens in 2001 stated some reasons as well. "A guy who's unrestricted wants to go to and environment where he has a chance to win" "The montreal canadiens are one of the greatest organizations in hockey - at least they used to be. Unfortunately since winning the cup in 1993 they haven't made it past the second round of the playoffs." And they also haven't made the playoffs on five separate occasions. "It's not just one factor...there's a bunch of things that accumalated" stock said."It's a tough place to play. The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.

Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.
Even if I'm glad that Arnott is not playing for montreal, I understand what you are saying.
I think that in the next few years, players will get over most of these things when they see they have a chance to win it all.
However, obviously, the taxe thing is a bigger part of a problem then the journalists and the language.

At least when players signe here, you know they want to play here and its not only for the money. (Kovalev, Samsonov, Johnson)

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07-30-2006, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by NORiculous View Post
Even if I'm glad that Arnott is not playing for montreal, I understand what you are saying.
I think that in the next few years, players will get over most of these things when they see they have a chance to win it all.
However, obviously, the taxe thing is a bigger part of a problem then the journalists and the language.

At least when players signe here, you know they want to play here and its not only for the money. (Kovalev, Samsonov, Johnson)
Yeah I agree with you there, honestly i think it comes down to taxes and if they can lower them to at least an average standard, more players will come here.

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07-30-2006, 09:54 AM
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Move your *** out there every shift, every game, Make sure you're the hero everyday, and you'll never get into trouble. Just ask Steve Bégin.
Or ask Koivu

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07-30-2006, 10:34 AM
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Taxes are definitely the reason I work in Texas now and fully intend on working in the US.

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07-30-2006, 10:40 AM
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Taxes are definitely the reason I work in Texas now and fully intend on working in the US.
Ditto with why I'm looking much stronger at jobs in the US than here in Canada. So long as you get private insurance with your job, you've got an extra 10% in your pocket at the end of the day.

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07-30-2006, 10:52 AM
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Taxes are definitely the reason I work in Texas now and fully intend on working in the US.
when you have kids and need to pay for college will the diffrence be that great?

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07-30-2006, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkman316 View Post
The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.

Please let me laugh for a second. If Koivu was that miserable in Montreal he wouldn't have signed his contract extension with a NO TRADE CLAUSE

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07-30-2006, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkman316 View Post
I'm just quoting some stuff out of the ottawa citizen this sunday morning about why these big things hurt montreal's chances of landing that big free agent such as Arnott and Shanahan.

1. The recent article in the national post pointed out that ville st. pierre native martin lapointe who is represented by lupien, was offered both 25 million dollar contracts from both the canadiens and the bruins in 2001 and opted for the 38% tax rate in massachusetts instead of the 48% rate in Quebec. That means lapointe just saved 2.5 million. And with Arnott choosing Nashville over montreal he saved about 13% and that equals to 2.9 million as well.

2. Lupien also stated " If you have the choice between florida and montreal - and in florida it's 85 degrees and they speak english and theres less tax and the wife can take the kids to disney world and you're not going to be bothered by the newspapers - the player is gonna take florida.

3. Stu Cowan phoned p.j stock a former hab who played 20 games with the canadiens in 2001 stated some reasons as well. "A guy who's unrestricted wants to go to and environment where he has a chance to win" "The montreal canadiens are one of the greatest organizations in hockey - at least they used to be. Unfortunately since winning the cup in 1993 they haven't made it past the second round of the playoffs." And they also haven't made the playoffs on five separate occasions. "It's not just one factor...there's a bunch of things that accumalated" stock said."It's a tough place to play. The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.

Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.
For the most part I agree. Samsonov was the free agent I coveted from the beginning and Im still amazed Bob pulled it off. If Bob, did indeed, pursue Sergei from the beginning it sure took him a long time to decide.

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07-30-2006, 11:22 AM
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when you have kids and need to pay for college will the diffrence be that great?
You can still send your kid to a college/university in Canada, if you don't want to spend the money to send them someplace better.

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07-30-2006, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkman316 View Post
I'm just quoting some stuff out of the ottawa citizen this sunday morning about why these big things hurt montreal's chances of landing that big free agent such as Arnott and Shanahan.

1. The recent article in the national post pointed out that ville st. pierre native martin lapointe who is represented by lupien, was offered both 25 million dollar contracts from both the canadiens and the bruins in 2001 and opted for the 38% tax rate in massachusetts instead of the 48% rate in Quebec. That means lapointe just saved 2.5 million. And with Arnott choosing Nashville over montreal he saved about 13% and that equals to 2.9 million as well.

2. Lupien also stated " If you have the choice between florida and montreal - and in florida it's 85 degrees and they speak english and theres less tax and the wife can take the kids to disney world and you're not going to be bothered by the newspapers - the player is gonna take florida.

3. Stu Cowan phoned p.j stock a former hab who played 20 games with the canadiens in 2001 stated some reasons as well. "A guy who's unrestricted wants to go to and environment where he has a chance to win" "The montreal canadiens are one of the greatest organizations in hockey - at least they used to be. Unfortunately since winning the cup in 1993 they haven't made it past the second round of the playoffs." And they also haven't made the playoffs on five separate occasions. "It's not just one factor...there's a bunch of things that accumalated" stock said."It's a tough place to play. The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.

Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.

. . . You the hell is Gilles Lupien anyways! What the hell does he know and the impact he has in being as an agent. Freak'n turncoat.

. . . now that I feel better, let the players walk to other teams that WON'T have a chance of winning the cup as they are only thinking of money and the SELFISH attituted that comes along with it. LAPOINTE showed what impact he would have on a team and soon will ARNOTT, CHARA on and on.

. . . I say to individuals NOT wanting to play in the highest demanding hockey meca in the world to move on and pursue your ONLY FINANCIAL dreams and keep dreaming of having your name on Lord Stanley!

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07-30-2006, 11:49 AM
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You can still send your kid to a college/university in Canada, if you don't want to spend the money to send them someplace better.
The average American University doesnt measure up to the average Canadian University.

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07-30-2006, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkman316 View Post

Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.
The people you just mentioned don't want the Arnott's and Shanahan's of the future. The want the Bergeron's and the Gagne's. They simply don't understand that the Bergeron's and the Gagne's are the players most likely to stay away from Quebec due to the pressure. Don't think the Brisebois booing went unnoticed among French Canadian players. There is nothing that Lupien stated that wasn't true. All things being considered, Montreal is not a desireable place to play for the moment. Make them a playoff contender every year may change that, but it's not an easy place to play, especially if you're a streaky player.

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07-30-2006, 12:53 PM
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Move your *** out there every shift, every game, Make sure you're the hero everyday, and you'll never get into trouble. Just ask Steve Bégin.

Plus about the language... It's not all that hard to learn the basics, damn it. "Bonjour, bonsoir, j'ai mal aux fesses parce que je tombe tout le temps (that's for Pierre Dagenais), une bière s'il-vous-plaît, bonne soirée, "on a donné notre 110%", "je trouve qu'on a quand même bien joué même si on a perdu 4-0""... That's all a guy has to know to please me!
Well...there you go...I wouldnt want to learn a new language so I dont get blasted every opportunity(ex:Koivu who does everything you said in the first part of your post.). So I'd choose one of the other 29 cities where it dosent matter.

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07-30-2006, 01:05 PM
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The average American University doesnt measure up to the average Canadian University.
Sorry, if you interpret it how I meant it, I mean that there are many American universities that are better than Canadian universities, but not all of them. Something better, which I eluded to earlier, would be a highly reputable school. Ergo Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, USC, UCal, Boston College, Ivy League, etc would be preferable to most Canadian universities by my interpretation.
Also, if you send your child to an in-state university, it isn't that much more than sending them to a reputable Canadian university.

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07-30-2006, 01:06 PM
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Ditto with why I'm looking much stronger at jobs in the US than here in Canada. So long as you get private insurance with your job, you've got an extra 10% in your pocket at the end of the day.
It's very well known, that 10% will get your life all-smiley.

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07-30-2006, 01:08 PM
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It's very well known, that 10% will get your life all-smiley.
10% can be interpreted as retirement 3-5 years earlier. I think that's the definition of "all-smiley".

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07-30-2006, 01:49 PM
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Montreal will have to build through trades and the draft.

If the habs are in contention, they can always rent-a-player at the deadline like carolina did.

Taxes will always be a concern for free agents and we just have to live with that.

As for this tax debate, personally, I intend to stay in Canada because it feels like home and always has been home (Vancouver to be more specific). I dont mind sacrificing a bit of tax money in order to stay in such a unique city.

Its all about what makes you happy in the end.

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07-30-2006, 02:04 PM
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Taxes are definitely the reason I work in Texas now and fully intend on working in the US.
???

are you serious ?

i prefer pay more taxes and live in Montreal than live in Texas with more money in my bank account . Money is not all !

Texas !!!

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07-30-2006, 02:26 PM
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I'm just quoting some stuff out of the ottawa citizen this sunday morning about why these big things hurt montreal's chances of landing that big free agent such as Arnott and Shanahan.

1. The recent article in the national post pointed out that ville st. pierre native martin lapointe who is represented by lupien, was offered both 25 million dollar contracts from both the canadiens and the bruins in 2001 and opted for the 38% tax rate in massachusetts instead of the 48% rate in Quebec. That means lapointe just saved 2.5 million. And with Arnott choosing Nashville over montreal he saved about 13% and that equals to 2.9 million as well.
Players like Lapointe need not to apply to Montreal. Players like that will go for the most money, and will focus on money... that's why he chose Boston and Chicago, two perenial losing teams, over Montreal. Montreal had more potential, and did perform better overall than those two.

When you make millions like these guys are making, who cares what the tax bracket is.

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2. Lupien also stated " If you have the choice between florida and montreal - and in florida it's 85 degrees and they speak english and theres less tax and the wife can take the kids to disney world and you're not going to be bothered by the newspapers - the player is gonna take florida.
Out of whack comment by Lupien who saw his own player, Luongo, sign with Vancouver the minute he was traded to Vancouver... where it rains and of course, there is no disneyland there, nor 85 degrees all year long. Presented with the right amount of money, he went for it. And don't they us me Vancouver is a wonderful team at this point of time.


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3. Stu Cowan phoned p.j stock a former hab who played 20 games with the canadiens in 2001 stated some reasons as well. "A guy who's unrestricted wants to go to and environment where he has a chance to win" "The montreal canadiens are one of the greatest organizations in hockey - at least they used to be. Unfortunately since winning the cup in 1993 they haven't made it past the second round of the playoffs." And they also haven't made the playoffs on five separate occasions. "It's not just one factor...there's a bunch of things that accumalated" stock said."It's a tough place to play. The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.
.
Please such a comment should be put in perspective that those terrible seasons were under Houle.

Also teams like Boston and Chicago did sign free agents, even though they have been terrible overall.

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Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.
.[/QUOTE]

Don't care about Arnott, don't care about Lapointe, and don't care about Shanahan.

I have to agree though that too much stress is put on the language thing.

But hey, didn't we sign Kovalev, Dandenault and Samsonov as of late? Didn't Andre Savard sign a few as well? Of course.

So yeah... Montreal is a problem for the chockers, and the money driven guys. Who cares !!!!

All in all, I think we keep reinforcing a perception of a serious problem by repeating those people saying over and over again.

Again, it would be nice if the media do temper their excesses. We, the public, don't even care about those self-made drama... about Saku not speaking french.

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07-30-2006, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkman316 View Post
I'm just quoting some stuff out of the ottawa citizen this sunday morning about why these big things hurt montreal's chances of landing that big free agent such as Arnott and Shanahan.

1. The recent article in the national post pointed out that ville st. pierre native martin lapointe who is represented by lupien, was offered both 25 million dollar contracts from both the canadiens and the bruins in 2001 and opted for the 38% tax rate in massachusetts instead of the 48% rate in Quebec. That means lapointe just saved 2.5 million. And with Arnott choosing Nashville over montreal he saved about 13% and that equals to 2.9 million as well.

2. Lupien also stated " If you have the choice between florida and montreal - and in florida it's 85 degrees and they speak english and theres less tax and the wife can take the kids to disney world and you're not going to be bothered by the newspapers - the player is gonna take florida.

3. Stu Cowan phoned p.j stock a former hab who played 20 games with the canadiens in 2001 stated some reasons as well. "A guy who's unrestricted wants to go to and environment where he has a chance to win" "The montreal canadiens are one of the greatest organizations in hockey - at least they used to be. Unfortunately since winning the cup in 1993 they haven't made it past the second round of the playoffs." And they also haven't made the playoffs on five separate occasions. "It's not just one factor...there's a bunch of things that accumalated" stock said."It's a tough place to play. The media here make you a hero one day and a zero the next. The language thing plays a very big role. It gets talked about throughout the league. Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french.

Well after I read this article I learned something today - The people in the quebec government and montreal media needs to change there tune about the way they treat hockey players in montreal or the fans are the ones who are gonna continue to lose out on the arnott's and the shanahan's of the future.
1) well , we all know that for years , But we also know that health insurances and school cost a lot , in USA...

2) true , but if a player really likes hockey , south teams are probably the worst place to have a career ...

3) PJ STOCK played for the Habs ,nothing more than probably 4-5 minutes per games , for 20 games . Who is he exactly ? he talks about the language , as if it was a problem for him , during his ''long career here ''...

And please , don't bring anymore that famous story ; "Look at the way(the french media) tried to embrass Saku asking him why he can't speak french."

It wasn't the french media , it was just ONE guy that ask him a question about the french . Does Koivu an adult able to answer a question or to give his point of view ? yes from what i know .I don't understand why there are so much people that try to make a "martyre " of Koivu because of that unfamous question . It was classless from the reporter , but that's all . Koivu isn't stupid , and he's able to take care of himself .

By the way , it was only a minute in a 10 years career ;

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07-30-2006, 02:58 PM
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koivu dosent seem to mind since he asked for a no trade clause but it affects the perception other players have of the habs it's not just with koivu it's all the time remember keane remember carbonneau remember theo's picture remember koivu with his eye all cut up on the fron page of the jdm ect..

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07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
  #24
goalchenyuk
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Originally Posted by tmc View Post
koivu dosent seem to mind since he asked for a no trade clause but it affects the perception other players have of the habs it's not just with koivu it's all the time remember keane remember carbonneau remember theo's picture remember koivu with his eye all cut up on the fron page of the jdm ect..
yes , because every players of the NHL read the Journal de Montreal " and look to 100 % . I am sure that it is the first thing the players are doing , when they are comming back of the training .

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07-30-2006, 03:54 PM
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CHareth
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Please let me laugh for a second. If Koivu was that miserable in Montreal he wouldn't have signed his contract extension with a NO TRADE CLAUSE
That says an awful lot about Koivu and not about the slime "journalists" who try to publicly humiliate him and drive him out of town. The point being that when you're a high caliber free agent, you have the power to dictate where you want to play next, and when crap like this happens, it gets reported in the papers and on TV and talked about around the league. It's silly to think that players who haven't played at least part of their careers in Montreal and established some sort of connection and know what to expect and how to live with it would, knowing this kind of information, still want to make Montreal #1 on the list. Obviously there are a few, but I'm willing to bet that Montreal doesn't even appear close to #1 on the "hoped for" destination list for most premier free agents.

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