HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Julien the man for the job?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-12-2003, 03:51 AM
  #1
Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Saskatoon, Sask.
Posts: 2,030
vCash: 500
Julien the man for the job?

What’s your guys assessment of CJ after the first 16 games?

I’m still not sold on him. While I like his system, I don’t think he’s got the players fully committed to it. He seems like a good prep coach, but his in-game abilities are not great. As many of us have been noting lately, he has been making some poor decisions. Some of the weaknesses I have seen from him this season:
-Refusal to shorten the bench. It’s like he has 1-2-3-4 stamped on his forehead. A good example was last night in OT, he still rolled four lines. He has to realize that our best offensive players are going to get those goals for us and get Saks on every 2nd shift in OT and late in games.
-The way he’s handled Markov and Hainsey. The confidence of both guys is totally shot. Markov has gone to the clear cut no.1 to 4 or 5.
-Personnel decisions. How Audette hasn’t been scratched is beyond me.
-Too many too many men on the ice penalties. Whether or not these have been totally his fault, these penalties always fall on the shoulders of the coach.
-Inability to get players to fully commit to the system and give it their all every night. We have been great some nights, and god-awful others.

I see CJ as a similar situation to AS. He’s a decent coach, but not a great coach and this organization deserves more. I think he would do well as an assistant, and I am hoping that BG brings in a high profile guy before the season is out. I can’t help but imagine how different things would be if we had an elite coach. Look what Lemaire has done in Minny, or Hartley in Atlanta, I just can’t see CJ getting those kind of results.

Some of you may jump on me and say we should give him a chance. I say we can't afford to give him the chance. I like the guy and think he may be a great coach some day, but he needs to go through some growing pains and I am sick of the Habs being a development team for coaches. We need somebody who can do the job very well right now, not somebody who is going to be making rookie mistakes

Habber is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 04:11 AM
  #2
Anksun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Anksun
He's playing big with somes useless decisions. Having Garon in net last night was one example.

This time, he's ok since Garon done well (as expected) but this was a game Theodore deserved and honestly: I DO think the team would have play with a LOT more intensity last night with Theodore coming from a 4th Shutout in net.

Anksun is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 04:14 AM
  #3
Bob Bastards
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 652
vCash: 500
Yeah your right change the coach... one more time, it must be the solution. CJ is not able to score goal, we have to change him.

When do you guys will stop those absurdity? He have the same crappy player the last two have, he can't do miracle with this bunch of gutless player. Jeez...
If your able to get Scotty Bowman I say go for it, beside that forget it...

Bob Bastards is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 04:43 AM
  #4
Darz
Registered User
 
Darz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Where's the ANY key?
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,379
vCash: 500
I'm quite happy with the job CJ has done so far, and believe the coach is the least of our concerns. I don't expect miracles out of a coach and anybody who does will find himself disappointed 99.999999% of the time.
CJ has brought in a system that gives us at least a chance to win every night. If you look at our shot totals this year vs last year, you can see we have lowered the amount of shots against and increased the amount for.
Remember Julien was not picked up from some AHL garbage heap and brought here just because he spoke french. The guy was considered by many as one of the best (if not the best) coaches NOT coaching in the NHL. I honestly beleive he is going to be given every oppurunity to prove his worth before BG makes any coaching changes.

Darz is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 05:01 AM
  #5
Dynasty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber
Whatís your guys assessment of CJ after the first 16 games?

Iím still not sold on him. While I like his system, I donít think heís got the players fully committed to it. He seems like a good prep coach, but his in-game abilities are not great. As many of us have been noting lately, he has been making some poor decisions. Some of the weaknesses I have seen from him this season:
-Refusal to shorten the bench. Itís like he has 1-2-3-4 stamped on his forehead. A good example was last night in OT, he still rolled four lines. He has to realize that our best offensive players are going to get those goals for us and get Saks on every 2nd shift in OT and late in games.
-The way heís handled Markov and Hainsey. The confidence of both guys is totally shot. Markov has gone to the clear cut no.1 to 4 or 5.
-Personnel decisions. How Audette hasnít been scratched is beyond me.
-Too many too many men on the ice penalties. Whether or not these have been totally his fault, these penalties always fall on the shoulders of the coach.
-Inability to get players to fully commit to the system and give it their all every night. We have been great some nights, and god-awful others.

I see CJ as a similar situation to AS. Heís a decent coach, but not a great coach and this organization deserves more. I think he would do well as an assistant, and I am hoping that BG brings in a high profile guy before the season is out. I canít help but imagine how different things would be if we had an elite coach. Look what Lemaire has done in Minny, or Hartley in Atlanta, I just canít see CJ getting those kind of results.

Some of you may jump on me and say we should give him a chance. I say we can't afford to give him the chance. I like the guy and think he may be a great coach some day, but he needs to go through some growing pains and I am sick of the Habs being a development team for coaches. We need somebody who can do the job very well right now, not somebody who is going to be making rookie mistakes

I agree that Julien has made numerous mistakes so far this season. But I think we should give him another 16-20 games before we even consider making any drastic changes...we should be a little more patient to see if he improves on these mistakes and thus demonstrates that he is moving in the right direction...Don't forget, he's a rookie in this league too.

Dynasty is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 05:30 AM
  #6
Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Saskatoon, Sask.
Posts: 2,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty
Don't forget, he's a rookie in this league too.
Exactly my point. He's a rookie and making mistakes and I think we could do better.

Now I should clarify that I'm not saying fire Julien right now and replace him with whomever. I just think it would be beneficial for the team if an elite coach was brought in, whether it be right now or at the end of the season. Just like AS, he was doing an alright job, but bringing Gainey in was better and gave instant credibility to the GM position. I think CJ is doing a decent job, but it would be great if we could bring in a Lemaire or Hartley (Ribinson?)

Habber is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 05:39 AM
  #7
Gros Bill
Registered User
 
Gros Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Rwanda
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
To paraphrase Earl Weaver (renowned baseball manager) :
Coaches always get too much credit when the team wins ... and too much blame when they lose.

Gros Bill is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 05:41 AM
  #8
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
I have to agree with Habber on this one. I like CJ, he's a nice guy, but I don't think he can get it done. I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't ever seem him being that presence behind the bench. A guy like Robinson or Carbonneau would make a world of difference behind the bench if you ask me.

CJ is a nice man, but I don't think he's the guy to turn our ship around. The more I think about how we let Hartley get away, the more I kick myself. My prediction is that we'll have a new coach come Christmas time. I wish it would be Robinson but he might be in Florida by then...

Cap

Capitano is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 05:46 AM
  #9
cover_all_the_angles
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 30
vCash: 500
What a stupid thread. No reason to fire Julien. it's not like Lemaire or other great coaches can do much better here. and CJ is a pretty good coach. When they buy into his gameplan, they play hard, and they can be a dominating trap team at times.

cover_all_the_angles is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 06:16 AM
  #10
Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Saskatoon, Sask.
Posts: 2,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cover_all_the_angles
What a stupid thread.
No reason to be harsh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cover_all_the_angles
it's not like Lemaire or other great coaches can do much better here.
I 100% disagree. Great coaches get something out of nothing. Man for man, the Wild are no better a team than we are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cover_all_the_angles
and CJ is a pretty good coach.
Exactly, pretty good...not great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cover_all_the_angles
When they buy into his gameplan, they play hard, and they can be a dominating trap team at times.
Exactly (again)...when they buy into his gameplan. Making a gameplan is easy, getting the players to but into it is the hard part and I don't think the players have bought into CJ's system.

I'm not a knee-jerk reaction type of guy, but as Capitano said, he's not the man to turn the ship around. I'm thinking long term here. Gainey is supposed to be the GM to "take us to the promised land", I don't think CJ is the coach to do it. We need somebody with that "presence" that Captino mentioned.

Habber is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 06:30 AM
  #11
NWT Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,046
vCash: 500
Interesting debate, if not entirely predictable. When the going gets tough, it's always easy to focus on the coach. Don't get me wrong, both sides of this debate are well supported, but I think we may be looking in the wrong direction.

I think CJ has done just fine, the problem seems to be getting the players to play his system every night, and getting the players to play with intensity and heart every night. Is that the coach's responsibility...sure it is. Is that the players' responsibility...you bet, even more so than the coach.

I have no insights into how Bob Gainey works or thinks, but I would hazard a guess that he is watching closely to see where the effort is coming from and where it is lacking. Julien is giving effort, but some of his charges on the ice are severely lacking on that front.

Too bad it is really difficult to trade/get rid off overpaid underperforming players, and too bad it is really easy to fire coaches.

NWT Habs Fan is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 07:32 AM
  #12
Munchausen
Full Time A-hole
 
Munchausen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Stuck in traffic
Posts: 5,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWT Habs Fan
Interesting debate, if not entirely predictable. When the going gets tough, it's always easy to focus on the coach. Don't get me wrong, both sides of this debate are well supported, but I think we may be looking in the wrong direction.
You're right about that. While I'm questioning some (IMO) poor decisions on CJ's part (Markov's PP ice time for example), I think he is a good coach and has brought a system that can make us a playoff team.

The problem right now lies more within the on ice personel. Guys like Audette and Perreault for example are not buying into the system and even worse, Audette is not putting it in. As a result, both are minus players. Zednik needs to be b*tched slaped to wake him up. Rivet now makes the poor mistakes in his own zone Brisebois was doing last year.

We have to look in BG's direction too. What has he done so far to help his coach by filling the needs? Begin and Langdon were a good start, but now would be time to fill an other need by doing an "addition by substraction" kind of move. His evaluation of the elements in place must be over by now. Players that weaken the new playing philosophy must have been identified by both CJ and BG. As a result, actions should be taken (God I hope they were showcasing Perreault last night).

Munchausen is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 09:03 AM
  #13
Rather Gingerly 1*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,832
vCash: 500
Julien is doing alright. No chance of him being fired at this point

Rather Gingerly 1* is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 09:46 AM
  #14
kaCHing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12
vCash: 500
The PP and PK were really bad last year, and they're still bad this year after a promising start. Why weren't these worked on during camp? It's interesting that the creampuffs who attend press conferences don't ask Julien these questions.

Having said that, it's wildly premature to talk about Julien's performance He deserves to be given a fair shot.

kaCHing is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 10:43 AM
  #15
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaCHing
The PP and PK were really bad last year, and they're still bad this year after a promising start. Why weren't these worked on during camp? It's interesting that the creampuffs who attend press conferences don't ask Julien these questions.

Having said that, it's wildly premature to talk about Julien's performance He deserves to be given a fair shot.
Good points, I wonder why someone wouldn't bring that up at all? I do agree Julien deserves a fair chance but if he doesn't get the results, he's more vulnerable than a regular head coach because of his low salary.

Cap

Capitano is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:01 AM
  #16
Rahan
Registered User
 
Rahan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicoutimi
Posts: 1,756
vCash: 500
First, some say he's decent but not great. Okay so how many great coaches are there in this league? 2-3? Enough said about that.

For PP, that's his assistant's job. Sure he has his word on it, but he doesn't take all the decisions, so why should he take the blame? You should get some logic.

Julien got the team to play at it's "ceiling", it's just that the players can't fill all the expectations. The team does better than they should be expected to, so I don't see how you can talk IN A BAD WAY about Julien. Thank you.

Rahan is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 11:04 AM
  #17
jcpenny
Registered User
 
jcpenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montrťal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,878
vCash: 500
He plays the fourth line too much and our premier players not enough

jcpenny is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 03:27 PM
  #18
CHareth
Registered User
 
CHareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber
Exactly my point. He's a rookie and making mistakes and I think we could do better.

Now I should clarify that I'm not saying fire Julien right now and replace him with whomever. I just think it would be beneficial for the team if an elite coach was brought in, whether it be right now or at the end of the season. Just like AS, he was doing an alright job, but bringing Gainey in was better and gave instant credibility to the GM position. I think CJ is doing a decent job, but it would be great if we could bring in a Lemaire or Hartley (Ribinson?)
Where is this plethora of "elite" coaches in the NHL to choose from? I am not in favor of being trigger happy and firing a coach so quickly only to have him replaced by, most likely, another coach without much NHL coaching experience (Jarvis is probably a good candidate).

CHareth is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 03:41 PM
  #19
Canadienne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 63
vCash: 500
I am not very impressed by anyone or anything on this team this year. I was hoping that a fresh coach entering a full season would be able to bring more to the table but all he's been able to do is introduce some defensive basics that clearly not all the players are confident playing - why else would they virtually forget said system whenever they get scored upon?

This so-called system might be an improvement over having none - as was the case last year - but it's mighty tenuous and therefore frequently useless. Besides, no defensive system is ever going to compensate for the half-heartedness, irresponsibility and lack of intensity of far too many of this team's 'veterans'. Any player on any other team who has been playing the way Audette has, would be warming a seat in the pressbox or riding the buses in the AHL for half a dozen games already! The fact that he is still here and still being allowed to interfere with the development of our young rookies by using up valuable ice time and a roster spot, is imo the management's way of telling fans that nothing with this team has changed or is about to anytime soon so just swallow the (truth) pill and put yourselves out of your misery for yet another wasted season!

Of course rookie coaches will make mistakes like any other rookie. This guy may be a rookie in the NHL but he's been around and he's run enough teams to know how to do it right. Demoting rookies, benching rookies, playing veterans who are not contributing in the least, shuffling lines a la MT and demonstrating a total lack of faith in his own players by saying there was no way they could ever score 2 goals to tie a game is beyond rookie mistakes, it's bush league and unacceptable at this level. There are many much better coaches available out there. They just don't want to make the effort right now because this is just going to be another lost season in a long string of pitiful mediocrity.

The once mighty Canadiens have taken up residence in the gutter and management will have to get its collective feet wet in order to pull them out. So far, I do not see anyone even testing the water...

Methinks this dreary weather has made me a bit melancholy.

Canadienne is offline  
Old
11-12-2003, 04:22 PM
  #20
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,300
vCash: 500
IMO it will take more than hard work to get the present team into the playoffs. As for Audette, I don't think it's lack of effort so much as inability to do better. He's easily knocked down or off the puck and he no longer has the speed to prevent it.

Corey is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.