HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

199 points on 347 goals= 57%...untouchable

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-01-2006, 12:21 PM
  #76
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattray View Post
You dont see anyone comparing Carmen Electra to a primitive ape now do you?

There is an 80 year gap, and just like the human race, the game has evolved.....
You are free to have your opinion. I have been comparing players across eras quite succesfully for two years now. Your belief that it can't be done will not prevent me from doing it.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:22 PM
  #77
bigjags*
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post








Well said. Anyone comparing Mario's #s with some joker during WW1 simply it OTL when it comes to hockey.

bigjags* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:27 PM
  #78
Rattray
Registered User
 
Rattray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
You are free to have your opinion. I have been comparing players across eras quite succesfully for two years now. Your belief that it can't be done will not prevent me from doing it.
Successfully?

Ok, who's the better player, Howie Morenz or Jaromir Jagr?

Rattray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:27 PM
  #79
Rattray
Registered User
 
Rattray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bletchley View Post
Well said. Anyone comparing Mario's #s with some joker during WW1 simply it OTL when it comes to hockey.
lol....I hear ya buddy. Thanks for the chuckle.

Rattray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:28 PM
  #80
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattray View Post
Successfully?

Ok, who's the better player, Howie Morenz or Jaromir Jagr?
Jagr.

Next question?

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:32 PM
  #81
revolverjgw
Registered User
 
revolverjgw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,315
vCash: 500
Rattray and Bletchley have got to be the same guy.

revolverjgw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:32 PM
  #82
Rattray
Registered User
 
Rattray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Jagr.

Next question?
You're lucky you answered that.

Comparing different era's is possible, but it's NHL quicksand. You wont get anywhere.

Rattray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:33 PM
  #83
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattray View Post
You're lucky you answered that.

Comparing different era's is possible, but it's NHL quicksand. You wont get anywhere.


OK boss.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:34 PM
  #84
bigjags*
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
Rattray and Bletchley have got to be the same guy.
Huh?

bigjags* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:35 PM
  #85
Rattray
Registered User
 
Rattray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
Rattray and Bletchley have got to be the same guy.

When did Matlock sign up for HF?

Just because 2 guys share the same opinion, doesnt mean they're the same guy.

Go watch Murder she wrote or something, your opinion is useless on here.

Rattray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:37 PM
  #86
KariyaIsGod*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattray View Post
Newsflash - The game has evolved

Im sorry, but if Orr was teleported into today's game, he would have a tough time making the NHL. Players back then are not even in the same league as a player in today's era. Speed, shooting, goaltending, passing, defensive systems, powerplays, PK, coaching, are all above and beyond.

Now, if he was born in 1980, and had all the updated training along the way, there's no question he'd be in the NHL. He was born with natural talent and that would have been taken to the maximum, no question.
OK, good. You've managed to deduce this much. You are halfway there.

Now, because of the evolution factor, players from different eras can't really be compared stat for stat right?

Hence why you compare them according to the level of dominance they had over their own peers.

It evens the playing field.

KariyaIsGod* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:40 PM
  #87
bigjags*
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KariyaIsGod View Post
OK, good. You've managed to deduce this much. You are halfway there.

Now, because of the evolution factor, players from different eras can't really be compared stat for stat right?

Hence why you compare them according to the level of dominance they had over their own peers.

It evens the playing field.
Yes. That's all my point was in that heated Orr debate a while back. That if Orr were to be born in say 1980, he'd be the best player in the game today. No doubts about it.

But guys were saying "if you took that Orr (from 1972) and transported him in today's game he'd win the Art Ross, the Hart and the Norris"

That's when it went haywire.

bigjags* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:40 PM
  #88
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KariyaIsGod View Post
OK, good. You've managed to deduce this much. You are halfway there.

Now, because of the evolution factor, players from different eras can't really be compared stat for stat right?

Hence why you compare them according to the level of dominance they had over their own peers.

It evens the playing field.
The problem with that is one assumes that the talent level, era to era, is similar. Which IMO it's not. Going by his criteria, if Morenz had won 10 scoring titles, he'd be comparable to Gretzky. IMO that is the weakness of his system.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:43 PM
  #89
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
The problem with that is one assumes that the talent level, era to era, is similar. Which IMO it's not. Going by his criteria, if Morenz had won 10 scoring titles, he'd be comparable to Gretzky. IMO that is the weakness of his system.
That begs the question, how do YOU determine which NHL season has better talent than another?

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 12:47 PM
  #90
RUSqueelin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattray View Post
You dont see anyone comparing Carmen Electra to a primitive ape now do you?

There is an 80 year gap, and just like the human race, the game has evolved.....impossible to compare the two.

It's not hard to understand. You compare players as to how they compared against their peers. Bobby Orr dominated his peers and would in any era. Why the heck would he not have the same equipment, be as strong and as in shape if he played today ? - thus the transporting arguement is useless and pointless.

RUSqueelin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:00 PM
  #91
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattray View Post
Newsflash - The game has evolved

Im sorry, but if Orr was teleported into today's game, he would have a tough time making the NHL. Players back then are not even in the same league as a player in today's era. Speed, shooting, goaltending, passing, defensive systems, powerplays, PK, coaching, are all above and beyond.

Now, if he was born in 1980, and had all the updated training along the way, there's no question he'd be in the NHL. He was born with natural talent and that would have been taken to the maximum, no question.
Actually if he teleported in to today's NHL and didn't have the training or nutrition of his contemporaries at first but just strapped on their light skates he would be a top player in the NHL. Give him a 2 week "getting used to it" period and he is the best of one of the best D-Men in the NHL. If not the best player outright.

So you think Orr would have "problems making the NHL" as Pothier signs a 4 years $10 million deal". Yes you are not too smart.

Sens Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:18 PM
  #92
bigjags*
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
That begs the question, how do YOU determine which NHL season has better talent than another?
By simply watching games from then and from now.

bigjags* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:20 PM
  #93
bigjags*
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSqueelin View Post
It's not hard to understand. You compare players as to how they compared against their peers. Bobby Orr dominated his peers and would in any era. Why the heck would he not have the same equipment, be as strong and as in shape if he played today ? - thus the transporting arguement is useless and pointless.
Unreal. Orr wouldn't be able to score on thee goalies or skate around the likes or Pronger or Chara. It has nothing to do with Orr's ability, it's the abilty of the talent now.

Just look at the calibure of goals that were scored back in those days. It was terrible.

bigjags* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:22 PM
  #94
bigjags*
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
Actually if he teleported in to today's NHL and didn't have the training or nutrition of his contemporaries at first but just strapped on their light skates he would be a top player in the NHL. Give him a 2 week "getting used to it" period and he is the best of one of the best D-Men in the NHL. If not the best player outright.

So you think Orr would have "problems making the NHL" as Pothier signs a 4 years $10 million deal". Yes you are not too smart.
Gve him two weeks to learn 30 years of hockey development?

Oh man, I guess you've never heard of evolution then, Sens Rule?

bigjags* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:24 PM
  #95
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bletchley View Post
By simply watching games from then and from now.

How does the 38-39 season compare to 93-94?

Better yet, give me a complete rundown of the quality in each NHL season, best to worst.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:29 PM
  #96
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bletchley View Post
Gve him two weeks to learn 30 years of hockey development?

Oh man, I guess you've never heard of evolution then, Sens Rule?
Guess you never heard of hockey intelligence. The reason Gretzky, Orr, Mario were so much better than their peers was hockey inteligence. Orr would figure out the current state of the NHL and adapt really freaking quickly.

Sens Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:29 PM
  #97
Whatever Man*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
Actually if he teleported in to today's NHL and didn't have the training or nutrition of his contemporaries at first but just strapped on their light skates he would be a top player in the NHL. Give him a 2 week "getting used to it" period and he is the best of one of the best D-Men in the NHL. If not the best player outright.

So you think Orr would have "problems making the NHL" as Pothier signs a 4 years $10 million deal". Yes you are not too smart.


A "2 week getting used to it period". Good one.

Like, Orr was great and everything, but come on, "a 2 week getting used to it period", and he'd possibly be the best player outright? Someone had better let Crosby and Ovechkin in on this joke.

Whatever Man* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:30 PM
  #98
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2007 Sens Rule! View Post
Guess you never heard of hockey intelligence. The reason Gretzky, Orr, Mario were so much better than their peers was hockey inteligence. Orr would figure out the current state of the NHL and adapt really freaking quickly.
Give Gretzky a couple of weeks to study the players from any era and he would be the best player in any era. Or one of the best.

Sens Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:31 PM
  #99
bigjags*
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
How does the 38-39 season compare to 93-94?

Better yet, give me a complete rundown of the quality in each NHL season, best to worst.
So, let me get this straight: You can't see that the level of skill and talent is superior is today's game as compared to 1945?

A complete run down? Ok.

2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998
1997
1996
1995
1994
1993
1992
1991
1990
1989
1988
1987
1986
1985
1984
1983
1982
1981
1980
1979
1978
1977
1976
1975
1974
1973
1972
1971
1970
1969
1968
1967
1966
1965
1964
1963
1962
1961
1960
1959
1958
1957
1956
1955
1954
1953
1952
1951
1950
1949
1948
1947
1946
1945
1944
1943
1942
1941
1940
1939
1938
1937
1936
1935
1934
1933
1932
1931
1930
1929
1928
1927
1926
1925
1924
1923
1922
1921
1920
1919
1918
1917
1916
1915
1914
1913
1912
1911
1910
1909
1908
1907
1906
1905
1904
1903
1902

Itís called evolution.

bigjags* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-01-2006, 01:31 PM
  #100
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatever Man View Post


A "2 week getting used to it period". Good one.

Like, Orr was great and everything, but come on, "a 2 week getting used to it period", and he'd possibly be the best player outright? Someone had better let Crosby and Ovechkin in on this joke.
It isn't a joke. Orr was perhaps the smartest player ever to play aside from Gretzky. Doesn't matter when or where he would figure it out, very, very quickly.

Sens Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.