HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Dumont awarded $2.9m

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2006, 01:27 PM
  #26
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I think this one definitely looks bad. But others have looked very fair too, so I don't think that the process is necessarily off the rails overall. Again, who knows how the respective sides presented their cases?

At any rate, I see Dumont as a better-Dagenais type of player, but at the end of the day, a career string of 23-23-14-22-20 goals really shouldn't add up to $2.9M IMO. Way out of line. (Not at all out of line with the Mike York award, though, for similar production).

I have a bit of trouble imagining that Buffalo will accept this, though. I don't know what GM in the league will want Dumont at $2.9M. Not a lot of teams have cap space to throw around right now. This would put the Sabres themselves at something like $41-42M, still with contracts coming for Kalinin and Miller. Clearly they can't accommodate Dumont, and I think their gameplan with the other signings has tacitly acknowledged that all along - Dumont was going to be the sacrificial lamb. I guess it will all come down to whether they feel they can get anything for him or not. If somebody will throw a 7th round pick on him, they accept it. But I'm doubtful that anybody will.

That said, if Dumont goes on the market, would you want him at a cheaper rate, say $1.8M?
It may also be the case that, as this gets crazier and crazier, cap space will tighten and teams will be forced to play hoses as the arbitrator will award eg Dagenais 2 million with no sense of the cap.

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 02:00 PM
  #27
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
How soon will we see Code or Eklund start a rumour that the Sabres are thinking of walking away from the award and that BG is interested in Dumont at eg 2.5? lol

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 02:02 PM
  #28
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihilist View Post
I know he only played 54 games and I know it projects as 60 points over a full season. The fact remains that he didn't play a full season and that he never reached that 60 points. His career high is still 53 points and he very well may not have gotten more points than that had he played the full season.
One would think fragility would be taken into account. Who determines what these arbitrators get paid anyway?

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 02:10 PM
  #29
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,432
vCash: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
It'll be a problem when everybody in your top 6 is making $3.5m each and that becomes the norm. It'll be an even bigger problem when guys like Ryder compare themselves to Dumont and get $4m later on when awards get higher. Then someone else better than Ryder will compare himself to Ryder and get $5m. It'll just keep going and in 4/5 years time the cap will have just caused teams to all be able to compete every year because the teams with these great players will have to give them up, and teams with money to spend will sign them.

The cap is good, but other areas have to be refined to make the cap effective.
Things are really the same than before the lockout it's just that at some point there will be almost no roster movement and when a team will have money to spend you can bet they gonna find a very sweet deal somewhere. What we saw this summer will probaly not happen many times again with teams having their handfull with their recent pickups and RFA's making way too much because of the early UFA age. I don't think it's bad to give every team a chance to win but like you said the cap is good, but other areas have to be refined to make the cap effective.

Team_Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:16 PM
  #30
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,432
vCash: 309
One good exemple is Simon Gagne with Philly , the guy won't take less than 5M/year for sure now. Bob Clarke must be pissed..

Team_Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:23 PM
  #31
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
if the Sabres let him walk and he becomes ufa
id pick him up offer him 3 yrs 2.5 million
he is a pretty good player .


buffalo is going to have to do something there at 41 million now ?

thats the cost of playoff sucess


Last edited by Artyukhin*: 08-02-2006 at 03:30 PM.
Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:34 PM
  #32
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
How soon will we see Code or Eklund start a rumour that the Sabres are thinking of walking away from the award and that BG is interested in Dumont at eg 2.5? lol


i dont think 2.5 million is out of the question for dumount . id sign him in a heart beat for that money . he was on pace for 30 goals last year ...

Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:37 PM
  #33
HabsUnited
Registered User
 
HabsUnited's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
i dont think 2.5 million is out of the question for dumount . id sign him in a heart beat for that money . he was on pace for 30 goals last year ...
I like him as a player but I don't think we need another winger (Ribeiro respect notwithstanding, we need a center).

HabsUnited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:44 PM
  #34
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, cālisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 8,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihilist View Post
The thing is, the Sabres operate with a limited budget. They can't afford to pay 3 millions for a guy like Dumont.



Actually, it's 20 goals and 20 assists. 3 millions for 40 points.
Everybody works with a limited budget. The Sabres had it coming.

You negociate before everybody gets to a one-year deal and are subject to arbitration.

deandebean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:44 PM
  #35
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsUnited View Post
I like him as a player but I don't think we need another winger (Ribeiro respect notwithstanding, we need a center).
well if they trade ryder for briere

Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:45 PM
  #36
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
20 goals-20 assist in 54 games...over a whole season it gives 30-30.


playoffs he racked up some points too. im sure that factored in also ...

Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:49 PM
  #37
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, cālisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 8,293
vCash: 500
Why is everybody pissed at the amount he made? I can't figure that one out.

the only team it affects is the Sabres and I, personnally, won't be crying for a franchise that can't reconnect with its past (i.e. jerseys), and a gm that can't understand how the system works.

You DON'T leave yourself open for arbitration galore if you try and sign everybody to multi-year contracts. Their gm got it coming.

deandebean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:53 PM
  #38
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Why is everybody pissed at the amount he made? I can't figure that one out.

the only team it affects is the Sabres and I, personnally, won't be crying for a franchise that can't reconnect with its past (i.e. jerseys), and a gm that can't understand how the system works.

You DON'T leave yourself open for arbitration galore if you try and sign everybody to multi-year contracts. Their gm got it coming.
The system will break down if its 3 million for 23 goals

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:56 PM
  #39
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
The system will break down if its 3 million for 23 goals
i said long ago they will need to expand the leauge

Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 03:56 PM
  #40
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, cālisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 8,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
The system will break down if its 3 million for 23 goals
No system will break down.

It is not 3 M $ for 23 goals. It's a one-year deal, that's it. It sets the market for 1 year deals, period.

Who wants to sign a player for a one-year period? It's not the way to go.

deandebean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 04:18 PM
  #41
KaptainKourage*
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St-Georges de Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,151
vCash: 500
damn gainey is even a better GM than i thought

KaptainKourage* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 04:53 PM
  #42
Pascal
Registered User
 
Pascal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,467
vCash: 500
I've always suspected these judges get a % of some of those deals from the players or agents.

2.9M for Dumont is stupid. Although not as bad as the Leafs WILLINGLY offering Gill and Kubina millions.

Pascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 04:56 PM
  #43
Marksman
Registered User
 
Marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firthbird View Post
Well if you compare his numbers with Ribs, then he should be under Ribs 1.9 mill.. technically

Dumont is capable putting similar 50-60 point seasons as Ribeiro, but there is one big difference separating the two. Dumont can produce post-season too. He had pretty good playoffs 7+7 in 18 games this year - and was decent in 2000-1 (4+3 in 13 games) too.

Marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 04:59 PM
  #44
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,805
vCash: 500
Fair deal. I had expected 3m for Dumont. Arbitration process is working OK so far with a few minor exceptions. Some players have been overvalued in arbitration; others undervalued.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 05:10 PM
  #45
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,432
vCash: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post

buffalo is going to have to do something there at 41 million now ?

thats the cost of playoff sucess
What?? They were at like 30-32 last year i think , how could they add 10M and let walk vets like McKee and Grier ?!

Team_Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 05:16 PM
  #46
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
What?? They were at like 30-32 last year i think , how could they add 10M and let walk vets like McKee and Grier ?!


playoff sucess everyone gets paid

i belive that is 41 million for only 18 guys also ...

Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 05:17 PM
  #47
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
What?? They were at like 30-32 last year i think , how could they add 10M and let walk vets like McKee and Grier ?!
Actually, I expect Buffalo to be more around the $43.5m mark.

I had done the math expecting Kalinin to get $2.5m, Dumont $3m, Miller $3m, Mair $500k, Afinogenov $3m ... granted, in looking at those numbers, perhaps Miller, Mair, Afinogenov will net even more in arbitration/signings, while Kalinin may get a bit less and Dumont was about right.

With those figures, Buffalo will be looking at a $43.5m payroll I believe.

Anyway, once again: I stated it back in April that Buffalo was overachieving because a vast majority of their players were in contract years. That's bad business. Further: a large chunk of their players playing for new contracts were also eligible for arbitration. ie. these players were in a position of extreme monetary incentives. That's miserable business by Darcy Regier.

In other words: a lot of players that were previously earning very little are now earning significantly more. Connolly, Briere, Dumont, Miller, Afinogenov, Kotalik and even depth players like Campbell were in line for major raises.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 05:29 PM
  #48
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,805
vCash: 500
Actually, I see now that Afinogenov just signed--and to more than I expected (cap hit: $3.33m a year).

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 05:33 PM
  #49
Burnside_1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
Who are these arbiters? I just don't understand some of the decisions....
They basically compare with other guys, only numbers.

Matin Havlat was awarded 6 mil a year, so maybe the guy who awarded Dumont 2,9 mil basically taught that he was half the player Havlat was, or something like that.

Again if some players end up getting that amount of money it's because of stupid gms gave ridiculous contracts that create a precedent, that's all.

If the sabres gm wanted him for less then he should have signed him earlier this season to a multi-year deal...

Burnside_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2006, 05:33 PM
  #50
goalchenyuk
Registered User
 
goalchenyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: montreal
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 8,346
vCash: 500
the Buff coach played Dumont with the players that were not producing , because he was puting fire on his linemates .

It is 3 Millions for a sparkplug player who would have had 60 points if playing a full season .

If you think it is too much , may i recall you that , playing a full season , our Kaptain woud have had 65 points , and he getting 4.75 Millions .

goalchenyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.