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Why the second line centre is important...

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Old
08-04-2006, 06:49 AM
  #26
Le Tricolore
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I was being a smartass.

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08-04-2006, 06:56 AM
  #27
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i thought so...


Ya im just tired of the impatient couch potato GM's, who want an instant cup contender and can't enjoy watching it build and materialize right infront of your eyes.

Just wait till Gainey adds a quality center and Defenceman at the trade deadline for the cup run. Then lets debate the team heavily. But right now were pretty much set going into training camp. Time to see what we got in way of youth. Maybe there is a hidden gem theat is ready to be plucked and plays his way on the team and forces a trade or something, that would be worth starting a new thread over.

Stating all ribs faults and why he should be thrown to the wolfs today, well its just been done to death.. next topic please...

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08-04-2006, 08:48 AM
  #28
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Ribiero as the 1st line center is even worse

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08-04-2006, 10:09 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
Also:

Higgins (2006): 0.67 PPG
Plekanec (2006): 0.67 PPG

Both of these could make better 2nd line center for Habs.

Exaclty...

That is the neet thing that is happening and which was not hapening the the previous years. We have options, which was not always the case. Has it was mentioned in this thread Ribs could be a one year fluke, Last season could be just a bad season, this season could be better but could also be worst. Only time will tell and I bet you BG does will not give him a whole lot f lee-way with the contract he signed.

But what are the options... who can play center. Well said, Plekanek is great on face offs, has speed and has shown to have superior habilities defensively. Higgins we all know what he can do on the side of Koivu. I would not touch this combo with a 10ft pole. Johnson can be a good option at center but does not have to play there. Grabovsky or Chipchura could show that they are much closer then we think they are. Murray is a natural center ans so is Lapierre. Not sure how has the most upside offensively (I would bet on Lapierre). All this to say that we are stacked at center and that I am sure we can find another option then Rbs for the second line duty if required.


My prediction for this year... Ribs will be waved, Grabovski will come in and replace him mid-season.

Samsonv, Grabovski, Kovalev
Higgins, Koivu, Ryder
Perezogin, Plekanek, Johnson
Begin, Bonk, (Murray/Lapierre)

THat does not give us a big presence down in the middle, but it offers us 3 speady center that each have skills, defensive awareness and offensive abilities... Like if it was Koivu down the middle and frankly I would not hesitate a moment before cloning Koivu twice and using him on the top three line cause he can fit anywhere there.

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08-04-2006, 10:34 AM
  #30
Jyroe Habs Fan
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your conclusion ; Ribeiro isn't enough good ? you never considere that may be it was his linemate Dagenais thaat was not enough good ?

And since you wanted to prove that Ribeiro is the problem , do you realise that with the same stupid stats , you can say the same thing about Saku ?

You Rib lovers are totally nuts, it makes it very difficult being a Habs fan with you guys. Rib sucks in every sence of the word. The only place he could shine is on 3 on 3 exhibition hockey game with no hitting.

Saku is a LEADER, a gritty hockey player who brings ten times the intangibles then little Mikey.
He is on his last skinny legs with this organization. HE WILL BE GONE BY EARLY MARCH!! Green Day song "Good Riddance, time of your life"

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Old
08-04-2006, 11:35 AM
  #31
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I and mostly everyone on these boards besides a few oddball posters

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Originally Posted by Jyroe Habs Fan View Post
You Rib lovers are totally nuts, it makes it very difficult being a Habs fan with you guys.

I'd never tought I'd see the day where people insulted each other on the internet.

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Old
08-04-2006, 12:02 PM
  #32
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Yeah, this is frustrating because everyone knows that his lack of stellar play is mostly due to attitude or a lack thereof. I have seen Ribs work hard in the corners and fight his way through traffic. We’ve probably all seen this high level of commitment from him…in 5 games out of 82 that is!

I think Bob signed him for the simple fact that we are low on quality centers and the UFA pool did not bring us a desired centre. Notice how the signing took some time and occurred ONLY after the quality centers in the UFA pool were gone. That is; “do we have a choice, Ribs versus no one?”

Better to go with the devil you know so to speak, I guess

If this guy could pay those other 77 games and playoffs to the best of his ability then I say fine. Hopefully he is hungry and he wants to prove his detractors wrong.

Get yer butt in gear for the love of money

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Old
08-04-2006, 12:27 PM
  #33
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What makes me laugh in threads like these is when people indirectly put the blame on Ribs as the main reason why the Habs can't win the cup. It's called a team because not one player makes it or breaks it.

Also, with the new cap situation, you can't have 2 lines fill up with all-stars; comparing Ribs to stars is IMO ridiculous. For the comparison to be faire, IMO again, you should line up the complete lines and salaries. That would also show how much is left for spending on good Ds and a good G.

I'm sorry to say but IMO the whole premise is flawed. Are the players you named better then Ribs? Absolutely. But when analysing team results, you can't do it unless you analyse the team with the complete effects. Ribs is less talented then the players you brought up but he also wins much less money. This opens up $ space for Kovalev, Samsonov, Koivu, etc.

Who would leave the team (on top of Ribs) if the 2nd line center won 4-5M as to get a player in the field that you are suggesting? Would the team really be better?
All this is very unclear in my mind and all we can do, you and me, is called speculation.

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Old
08-04-2006, 12:35 PM
  #34
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funniest ****, you like ribs, you attack koivu and vice versa

opinions biased NO WAY

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Old
08-04-2006, 12:45 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
I don't think we'll have a top line. The Koivu line, as well as that of Kovy, will get the same ammount of ice time, in my opinion.
it's not what we think , it's what the opposition thinks . teams will identify the other teams top scoring line and try to neutralize that line with their top checking line .this , imo will free koivu from the top checking centers in the league and lead to more production from koivu and his linemates while giving rebeiro the opportunity to prove that he belongs on this team as a top two center , if he fails he will either be waived , traded , or left unsigned to become an ufa/rfa(not sure on this point) then gainey and carbonneau will go to plan "B" . rebeiro has had all summer to address his weaknesses that have been well documented on these boards and elsewhere , if he failed to do this he will be plying his trade in a city not named montreal . SINK OR SWIM MIKEY !!!!! P.S. any ideas on plan "b" , i don't foresee a rookie taking the job , maybe bonk , he has the size and talent not sure about the heart . i don't think it would hurt to at least give him a shot , it's much easier and cheaper to replace a third line center from within than it is to replace a first line center via a trade . i expect to get a lot of flak about these ideas , but i am here to discuss viable options , not to argue about them . ideas anyone ?????

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08-04-2006, 12:51 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
your conclusion ; Ribeiro isn't enough good ? you never considere that may be it was his linemate Dagenais thaat was not enough good ?
I thought the whole idea behing having Dagenais on that wing was to help his buddy Ribeiro cause they were supposed to have that mystic magic connection called chemistry between them If Ribs hadn't been our nbr 2 center in the 1st place, we wouldn't have had to suffer Dagenais's presence for so long

I'm so sick of Ribeiro's fan blaming his wingers; he's played with pretty much every winger we got and it's just not working!!! When Ribs was playing with Dagenais, it was his fault, obviously. Then he played with Ryder, and they were saying "Oh, of course Ribs can't produce, Ryder stinks, he can't pass, ....". And when Ryder transferred with Koivu and started producing they started to blame Bulis, and then Kovy. Ribeiro sucks. Deal with it.

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08-04-2006, 01:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post
P.S. any ideas on plan "b" , i don't foresee a rookie taking the job , maybe bonk , he has the size and talent not sure about the heart . i don't think it would hurt to at least give him a shot , it's much easier and cheaper to replace a third line center from within than it is to replace a first line center via a trade . i expect to get a lot of flak about these ideas , but i am here to discuss viable options , not to argue about them . ideas anyone ?????
I repeat: Higgins or Plekanec.

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08-04-2006, 01:06 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
All i have to say is that Ribiero has his last chance till maybe trade deadline to keep the 2nd line center job. If he doesn't excell playing with samsonov and kovalev(we all know that will be the line) he will be outta here and bob will get a new center for that spot either from within or from a trade maybe at the deadline or before. All depends on Ribs i must admit.
i agree with what you say but if i'm the coach of the opposing team and i see these three guys jumping over the boards i would want to get my top checking line on the ice to try to stop them , so wouldn't this make rebeiro our first line center ?

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08-04-2006, 01:25 PM
  #39
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I repeat: Higgins or Plekanec.
i kinda like higgins on the wing with koivu but plekanec is certainley a viable option .

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Old
08-04-2006, 01:38 PM
  #40
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Hey give a break to that kid. Damn I already hear bunch of you guyz booing him next year when he touch the puck.. just like brisebois,théo, sometime Zednik. I don't regrets those guyz tough but i should kill everyone who booed a Canadiens player.That don't help them, it's the opposite. *** you call yourself a fan, when all you do is crying about we don't have a guy like Staal or Modano for 2nd center or no Niedermayer at defense and asking to put in the garbage every player that is not a star player or player having a hard time. Yeah Ribs is not the best player around, opposing player push him around like a girl on the ice most of the time and off the ice he's Hollywood. I'm not a Ribs lover but hey men he's a Canadiens.. show him love for taht at least a little respect. If Carbo can't put something in his head it will be over but for now he can be better taht what he showed last year. Plekanec is not ready to be 2nd center and Higgins/Koivu/Ryder did good last year.
This year this is last chance. He will have no excuse to suck. He will play with Kovalev and Samsonov and he has the best coaching staff to put some heart in his play.If he suck he's gone but till that time give that kid a break.

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Old
08-04-2006, 01:46 PM
  #41
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yah the devils won the cup, but you failed to use those centerman in the ppg category you created. why is that? is it because ribs out produced them and would have made that entire diatribe a moot point?

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08-04-2006, 04:49 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
yah the devils won the cup, but you failed to use those centerman in the ppg category you created. why is that? is it because ribs out produced them and would have made that entire diatribe a moot point?

I thought I explained it well enough in the post. Ribeiro fans are obsessed with point totals and his offensive production. The 2002-2003 NJD were not a high scoring team. They played a defense oriented game, so comparing their player's PPGs with a guy who's only apparent attribute is offensive production, would be comparing apples to oranges. Well, then, you could argue that the Habs could be just such a team. And I will answer: Absolutley not. Mike Ribeiro can't play at both ends so he cannot be part of that team. And absolutely not because in the "new NHL", it is much more difficult to play clutch and grab hockey like the devils did that year.

Understand? Apples and oranges.


Show me a GM who would have Ribeiro instead of Gomez, Madden or Nieuwendyk and I will show you an idiot. So to answer your question, there is no moot point.

.


Last edited by Catch-22: 08-04-2006 at 04:57 PM.
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08-04-2006, 05:57 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jyroe Habs Fan View Post
You Rib lovers are totally nuts, it makes it very difficult being a Habs fan with you guys. Rib sucks in every sence of the word. The only place he could shine is on 3 on 3 exhibition hockey game with no hitting.

Saku is a LEADER, a gritty hockey player who brings ten times the intangibles then little Mikey.
He is on his last skinny legs with this organization. HE WILL BE GONE BY EARLY MARCH!! Green Day song "Good Riddance, time of your life"


whitch part of my post didn't you understand ? the one who i said that it's not because Ribeiro got less points than the others players , that he's the one to replace ( Could be Dagenais , more than Ribs ) ?

Or is it the one where i clairly said that those stats ARE STUPID , and that with those stats we can have the same conclusion about Koivu ( i didn't say it , but it 's probably the same for a lot of the players ) .

My point isn't that we have to trade Koivu , or that Ribeiro is better than him ( SAKU IS BETTER ! OK ! ) , but to show that all those stats are not proving at all , what the first poster wanted to proved .

And to finish , i would say that WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIKE THE PLAYERS WE WANT . WHO ARE YOU TO INSULT THE FANS OF THE PLAYER YOU DON'T LIKE ? If you wanted to prove that Ribs fans are nuts , as you said , you just show us how you are sad , as a Koivu's fan .

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08-04-2006, 06:27 PM
  #44
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speaking of originality...
I haven't read a single comment by you which wasn't related to Ribs.

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08-04-2006, 06:29 PM
  #45
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1) Or is it the one where i clairly said that those stats ARE STUPID , and that with those stats we can have the same conclusion about Koivu ( i didn't say it , but it 's probably the same for a lot of the players ) .


2) My point isn't that we have to trade Koivu , or that Ribeiro is better than him ( SAKU IS BETTER ! OK ! ) , but to show that all those stats are not proving at all , what the first poster wanted to proved .
1) False. Read post # 16 in this thread.

2) Even if you could use these stats in the way you suggest, I explicitly said that stats can be second to other qualitative aspects. But the vast majority of Ribeiro fans are clearly obsessed with his offensive skill and production, hence the "what fi he scores 80 points?" thread and your posts which all focus on his ability to score points. Because my goal wa to address Ribeiro fans in a language they can understand, I used numbers. But Do not get me wrong, qualities are at least equally important. The only problem is Ribeiro has almost no great qualitative aspects to his game. The only thing he can do is AT BEST provide mediocre production. I have been entirely successful in showing that, as far as I can tell.



Quote:
And to finish , i would say that WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIKE THE PLAYERS WE WANT . WHO ARE YOU TO INSULT THE FANS OF THE PLAYER YOU DON'T LIKE ? If you wanted to prove that Ribs fans are nuts , as you said , you just show us how you are sad , as a Koivu's fan .
Now this is what you're really trying to get at. Of course every fan has the right to like the players they choose. But let me ask you whether your loyalties as a fan lie more with the individual players or more with a team? See, for me, I want the Habs to win the Stanley Cup. Nothing less. So I like only players who I think can help the team accomplish that goal. There is no question that Saku Koivu can. He brings so many dimensions to a game. Now other fans have affinities for players, because of offensive talent, point production etc. Now, those things don't necessarily come with the intangibles that Koivu has and the numerous dimensions that a team requires in order to hoist the mug, but people still like those players. Now there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is clear that you are more a fan of the player tha the team. It doesn't get more logical; IF YOU PREFER TO KEEP PLAYERS ON A TEAM WHO HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO LACK THE ABILITY TO HELP THAT TEAM WIN, THEN YOU ARE CLEARLY MORE A FAN OF THE INDIVIDUAL PLAYER THAN OF THE TEAM.

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Old
08-04-2006, 06:32 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I haven't read a single comment by you which wasn't related to Ribs.
You rarely miss an opportunity to respond to those comments so you, as a Ribeiro apologist, clearly find it a relevant issue. I post a lot about him because he is our biggest obstacle to contending for the cup. If you think this is bad, you're lucky I was at another board when Theodore was around.

For the record, I have also posted many times about what a great GM Bob Gainey is, why Kovalev MUST stay and why the Habs have a larger fan base than the Leafs etc etc. You obviously have not read them.

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08-04-2006, 11:36 PM
  #47
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Fact is Ribeiro will never be a stanley cup winner. He doesn't have the heart, the leadership, and most of all the WILL to do what it takes to win.

We saw what he did vs Boston in the playoffs a few yrs ago. If I was the GM of that team I would have traded him in the summer right after.

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08-05-2006, 08:44 AM
  #48
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The Habs have a very good second line C in Koivu. What they need is a good first line C.

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08-05-2006, 09:25 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by SENSible1 View Post
The Habs have a very good second line C in Koivu. What they need is a good first line C.
my sentiments exactly . this is why the habs are going to give rebeiro a shot at winning the first line center spot , if he bombs he's gone , if he plays well , then thats great for the team . i'm hoping for the latter but expecting the former , but the idisputable fact is BOB AND GUY WILL GIVE HIM THAT SHOT . so , some posters can spout of about stats as much as they want to , barring a surprise move , MIKE REBEIRO WILL GET HIS SHOT . in my mind it's his to win or lose . SINK OR SWIM MIKEY !!!

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08-05-2006, 02:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
You rarely miss an opportunity to respond to those comments so you, as a Ribeiro apologist, clearly find it a relevant issue. I post a lot about him because he is our biggest obstacle to contending for the cup. If you think this is bad, you're lucky I was at another board when Theodore was around.

For the record, I have also posted many times about what a great GM Bob Gainey is, why Kovalev MUST stay and why the Habs have a larger fan base than the Leafs etc etc. You obviously have not read them.
No I remember when there was a time were you did post about something other than Mikey. I found that your posts were actually for the most part insightful and a good read. But this stuff gets tiring. Ribs is here for another year (baring a trade), so we have to live with it. What's the point of complaining if it isn't in our hands?

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