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What am I missing about David Fisher?

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Old
08-07-2006, 02:09 PM
  #1
CaptCrunch
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What am I missing about David Fisher?

David Fisher, voted 7th best prospects by us, almost detroning impressive Emelin for no6 and beating an established O'Byrne (in the USA university circuit).

Out of frequently read medias (CSB, ISS, TSN draft report and Red Line), David Fisher only appears on CSB's top 30 (at 29st pick). ALL the others doesn't even put him in the top 30.

Fisher wasn't BPA at 16. According to most (including me), he wasn't even BPA at 20.

If you wanted to draft by position (as the Canadiens seemed to do... we have to remember for posterity, the habs did NOT draft BPA in 2006!) and select a defenseman, there were a whole slew of defensemen available.

Wanted a stay-at-home blueliner? CSB, TSN and the Red Line put Ty Wishard and Mike Mitera before Fischer.

Wanted a big and mobile man? Nigel Williams is a unanimous pick (by ISS, CSB, TSN and the Red Line) in the top 30. Before Fischer.

Wanted an offensive D? Bobby Sanguinetti was favored by CSB, TSN and the Red Line. Ivan Visnevsky got the nod from the ISS, TSN and Red Line.

All these guys above Fisher (and then again, I've got no access after the 30th pick so there might be more)

Yet, I read that all these praises about Fischer

Ok.... What am I missing?

Has Fischer impressed that much at the habs "rookie" camp? Did he beat up somebody and I didn't know? Is it just "the new guy" effect?

Can somebody tell me why he is so highly though of in these parts? (no complaining here... I just want to know)

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08-07-2006, 02:18 PM
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For a high school kid, he's very well developed. He has good height and will fill out. Combined with his strong skating and decent hands and shot, he looks like a good one with a lot of upside. Personally, I don't see much offense out of him, but he could be a second pairing guy. Time will tell if he can adjust to other levels, but he seemed comfortable out there with prospects that were supposedly ahead of him. He needs to bulk up and add physicality though.

That list also had Price as our #2 prospect, which is laughable if you saw the development camp. That kid has a long way to go. He's got AHL written all over him if you ask me. But again, time will tell. Shoulda picked Brule.....

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08-07-2006, 02:30 PM
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David Fisher, voted 7th best prospects by us, almost detroning impressive Emelin for no6 and beating an established O'Byrne (in the USA university circuit).


Fischer is younger then O'Byrne so the odds are that at the same age, Fischer will be better...

Out of frequently read medias (CSB, ISS, TSN draft report and Red Line), David Fisher only appears on CSB's top 30 (at 29st pick). ALL the others doesn't even put him in the top 30.


High School players are always lower even if they are better...

Fisher wasn't BPA at 16. According to most (including me), he wasn't even BPA at 20.


Maybe he was the BPA for the Habs...no one have the same list for BPA...

If you wanted to draft by position (as the Canadiens seemed to do... we have to remember for posterity, the habs did NOT draft BPA in 2006!) and select a defenseman, there were a whole slew of defensemen available.


But for the Habs, Fischer was the best one available...

Wanted a stay-at-home blueliner? CSB, TSN and the Red Line put Ty Wishard and Mike Mitera before Fischer.


There's question marks surrounding the real upside of Wishart and Mitera. They are two safe defenceman who won't do much offensively...

Wanted a big and mobile man? Nigel Williams is a unanimous pick (by ISS, CSB, TSN and the Red Line) in the top 30. Before Fischer.


The funny thing is that Williams went in the second round...after our second pick...

Wanted an offensive D? Bobby Sanguinetti was favored by CSB, TSN and the Red Line. Ivan Visnevsky got the nod from the ISS, TSN and Red Line.


The Habs probably want someone who can play defenca too...

Can somebody tell me why he is so highly though of in these parts? (no complaining here... I just want to know)


Fischer have all the tools to become a great complete two way defenceman, unlike many defenceman of the first round. Most of them were all offense or all defence, while Fischer is a two way defenceman. He was playing in a high school so it's not easy to rank him amongst the other defenceman who were playing in collegue or in the CHL.

So bottom line, while Fischer isn't a sure bet, he's one of the few defenceman of the draft who already showed sign of complete defenceman...

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08-07-2006, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
David Fisher, voted 7th best prospects by us, almost detroning impressive Emelin for no6 and beating an established O'Byrne (in the USA university circuit).


Fischer is younger then O'Byrne so the odds are that at the same age, Fischer will be better...

Out of frequently read medias (CSB, ISS, TSN draft report and Red Line), David Fisher only appears on CSB's top 30 (at 29st pick). ALL the others doesn't even put him in the top 30.


High School players are always lower even if they are better...

Fisher wasn't BPA at 16. According to most (including me), he wasn't even BPA at 20.


Maybe he was the BPA for the Habs...no one have the same list for BPA...

If you wanted to draft by position (as the Canadiens seemed to do... we have to remember for posterity, the habs did NOT draft BPA in 2006!) and select a defenseman, there were a whole slew of defensemen available.


But for the Habs, Fischer was the best one available...

Wanted a stay-at-home blueliner? CSB, TSN and the Red Line put Ty Wishard and Mike Mitera before Fischer.


There's question marks surrounding the real upside of Wishart and Mitera. They are two safe defenceman who won't do much offensively...

Wanted a big and mobile man? Nigel Williams is a unanimous pick (by ISS, CSB, TSN and the Red Line) in the top 30. Before Fischer.


The funny thing is that Williams went in the second round...after our second pick...

Wanted an offensive D? Bobby Sanguinetti was favored by CSB, TSN and the Red Line. Ivan Visnevsky got the nod from the ISS, TSN and Red Line.


The Habs probably want someone who can play defenca too...

Can somebody tell me why he is so highly though of in these parts? (no complaining here... I just want to know)


Fischer have all the tools to become a great complete two way defenceman, unlike many defenceman of the first round. Most of them were all offense or all defence, while Fischer is a two way defenceman. He was playing in a high school so it's not easy to rank him amongst the other defenceman who were playing in collegue or in the CHL.

So bottom line, while Fischer isn't a sure bet, he's one of the few defenceman of the draft who already showed sign of complete defenceman...
ditto

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08-07-2006, 02:39 PM
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hab
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I agree totally, sanguinetti in the first and williams in the second round would make

more sence, but then drafting price instead of brule looked like a big mistake last

year and an even bigger one this year

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08-07-2006, 02:50 PM
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Well, it's easy to say that we ****ed up, but GM and Head Scout don't draft by a list made by some other organization. They don't hire scout for nothing, they go to game, and they note things that will not be spread on the internet

Fischer is from high school, so his ranking sure has dropped. But they have a scout that know him for now a long time, so they must know some thing that other don't. I've always been confident in Savard/Timmins/Gainey, they know what they are doing.

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08-07-2006, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taupy View Post
Well, it's easy to say that we ****ed up, but GM and Head Scout don't draft by a list made by some other organization. They don't hire scout for nothing, they go to game, and they note things that will not be spread on the internet

Fischer is from high school, so his ranking sure has dropped. But they have a scout that know him for now a long time, so they must know some thing that other don't. I've always been confident in Savard/Timmins/Gainey, they know what they are doing.
so ******** didn't last, how long did you kept it?

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08-07-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hab View Post
I agree totally, sanguinetti in the first and williams in the second round would make

more sence, but then drafting price instead of brule looked like a big mistake last

year and an even bigger one this year
no it's not, after a deep reflexion, I found out that Price is more likely to prevent Brule from scoring on our team that Brule is likely to stop our team from scoring on whoever is the netkeeper on their team

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08-07-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taupy View Post
Well, it's easy to say that we ****ed up, but GM and Head Scout don't draft by a list made by some other organization. They don't hire scout for nothing, they go to game, and they note things that will not be spread on the internet

Fischer is from high school, so his ranking sure has dropped. But they have a scout that know him for now a long time, so they must know some thing that other don't. I've always been confident in Savard/Timmins/Gainey, they know what they are doing.
how long has timmins been in charge of amateur scouting? i mean, if it dates back to 2003, he has yet to make the BPA selection work for him.

2003, picked kostitsyn with jeff carter, dustin brown, ryan getzlaf, etc... on the board
2004, picked chipchura with richards, meszaros, schremp, etc... on the board.
2005, picked price with brule, bourdon, staal, rask, etc... on the board.

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08-07-2006, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thief50 View Post
so ******** didn't last, how long did you kept it?
I lost it yesterday

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08-07-2006, 03:06 PM
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There's a reason Sanguinetti went from like 10th to 21st.

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08-07-2006, 03:07 PM
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He is a great leader. That's the information you were missing.

And boy do every team need that !


Extract from : (sorry no working link anymore -- this is from a google cache...)

Apple Valley's David Fischer named Mr. Hockey
Roman Augustoviz, Star Tribune
Last update: March 12, 2006 9:58 PM


Future Gopher David Fischer, a 6-4 defenseman for Apple Valley, was named Mr. Hockey from among 10 finalists Sunday at a banquet at the RiverCentre.
"He's got one of those personalities that lights up a room and makes his teammates better," Eagles coach Jerry Hayes said. "You know he is a leader."

Fischer had a team-high 39 points this season for Apple Valley (14-10-4), which upset then-No. 1 Holy Angels 4-3 in the Class 2A section playoffs. He scored eight goals and had 31 assists.

"He had so much poise with the puck," Hayes said. "He was not one of those guys who was just going to throw [the puck]. So many high school hockey players, when they'd get in trouble, they would panic and throw it off the wall. David is a guy who will keep [the puck], he will regroup, he will circle a few times.

"He never lost control of his emotions or lost control of the game. He had that much confidence in his own ability to make plays, and that was something he always tried to do."

[...rest deleted out of respect... please search the web or contact newspaper for more)

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08-07-2006, 03:10 PM
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Want a big, stay-at-home, mobile and offensive d-men. I present to you David Fischer...

I believe the Habs took the one who could be able to have some great qualities in all those areas. Like you said yourself, I believe the guys you mentioned might be better than Fischer as of now, in only one aspect, their specialty. Fischer seems to have the potentiel of being good in ALL aspects. And if, he's not lucky, well he might be able to be good in 2 out of 3 and so on.

I think that when you compare everyone, their downside was much more important than Fischer's. Williams? Well was scheduled to go so early, some even said the best d-men potentially after Johnson, see how his downside played in his selection. Wishart, it's a belief that he's just a stay-at home and nothing else. Is that enough to go 16th??? I believe there was tons of other d-men like that in that draft. Valentenko might be one. I wonder how's Sanguinetti being often compared to Hainsey by HF people, might have been the same thing amongst scouts.

I don't think anybody saw Brian Lee being picked as early like the Sens did, they did thought he was a diamond in the rough, that would take a long time to develop but once he does, will be quite a player. I believe it was Timmins' thinking as well for Fischer.

As far as what I saw in the development camp, was a little dissapointed by his foot speed one day, and then pretty good the other day. Was more dissapointed in his stickhandling the whole week, but then showed some moments of pure joy, puck being glued to his stick at full speed. Loved his work ethic, was taken as an example on one of the drills, loved his defensive play, didn't get beat that often, never looked like a fool and like his shots, wristers or slappers. But does need to bulk up so much and not lose his mobility while doing so. But you see the potentiel so much, Timmins decided to go with a tall guy with good mobility, who has the potentiel of being equally great offensively and defensively.....the perfect d-men.....

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08-07-2006, 03:13 PM
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Thx everyone for your answers.

I get your point of view.

I'm still not sold on Fischer (I'll wait a year or two before making a judgement!) but I see why you are high on this guy.

For the record, I am still convinced the Habs went in this draft with an agenda (defense! lol!). Fischer seemed to be "BPA" in large part because he played the right position. Saying he is BPA for the Habs because they picked him comes across as an attempt at misdirection.


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08-07-2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hab View Post
I agree totally, sanguinetti in the first and williams in the second round would make

more sence, but then drafting price instead of brule looked like a big mistake last

year and an even bigger one this year
Let's give this one some time. Price looks like he may be the #1 goalie of the Canada WJC team this year and Brule's already had some injuries. Goalies do take longer to develop.

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08-07-2006, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by your_rogers_bill View Post
how long has timmins been in charge of amateur scouting? i mean, if it dates back to 2003, he has yet to make the BPA selection work for him.

2003, picked kostitsyn with jeff carter, dustin brown, ryan getzlaf, etc... on the board
2004, picked chipchura with richards, meszaros, schremp, etc... on the board.
2005, picked price with brule, bourdon, staal, rask, etc... on the board.
Richards was picked the same year as Carter.

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08-07-2006, 03:28 PM
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Don't forget that our Minnesota scout was his coach. If anyone knew what David Fischer, it was us. We know what we got, and we like it.

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08-07-2006, 03:38 PM
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They went with defense because the whiners like yourself on this board have been wanting to get the defense prospects hored up for two years now.

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08-07-2006, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by your_rogers_bill View Post
how long has timmins been in charge of amateur scouting? i mean, if it dates back to 2003, he has yet to make the BPA selection work for him.

2003, picked kostitsyn with jeff carter, dustin brown, ryan getzlaf, etc... on the board
2004, picked chipchura with richards, meszaros, schremp, etc... on the board.
2005, picked price with brule, bourdon, staal, rask, etc... on the board.
Each of Kosty, Chip, PRice were the BPA at their respective positions. How someone after the pick turns out is irrespective of the BPA at the draft position. With your 20/20 BPA definition Mike Ribeiro was the BPA at number 10 in 1998 instead of Nik Antropov.

As far as I know, only Meszaros from the post-2003 list has done anything in the NHL. The rest are suspects.

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08-07-2006, 03:44 PM
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According to McKeen's, Fisher was ranked 17th...

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08-07-2006, 03:47 PM
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They went with defense because the whiners like yourself on this board have been wanting to get the defense prospects hored up for two years now.
Hahahaha!

Yeah, sure!

I'm really happy to have gathered informative and respectfull answers. I tried to put my inquiry as complete as possible in order to get a troll-less and flame-less discussion!

Feel a little pent-up agression creeping in?

Go outside and take a walk sunshine!

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08-07-2006, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post



"He had so much poise with the puck," Hayes said. "He was not one of those guys who was just going to throw [the puck]. So many high school hockey players, when they'd get in trouble, they would panic and throw it off the wall.David is a guy who will keep [the puck], he will regroup, he will circle a few times.He never lost control of his emotions or lost control of the game. He had that much confidence in his own ability to make plays, and that was something he always tried to do.
in bold is what mostly ONLY true no.1 D's do( ie. Neidermayer, Prongner, Lindstrom..) Fisher after Johnson has the highest potential of all defensmen in the 2006 draft, he's very raw, that's why we took a chance on him, but picking raw players is how we draft apperently( Kostytsin, Higgins, Perezhogin...)

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08-07-2006, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Let's give this one some time. Price looks like he may be the #1 goalie of the Canada WJC team this year and Brule's already had some injuries. Goalies do take longer to develop.
Does that mean that we should question our second pick of that year (Lats), cause he already had some injuries One thing seems clear, Timmins and the gang must really have hated Brule to overlook him: a guy with huge upside, safer pick than Price and way closer to the NHL, since as you rightfully pointed out, goalies take so much longer to get there. We'll see how that gamble turns out, but I fear Brule will be the "simon Gagne" of that generation : the guy we missed and whose name will get thrown in our face for years and years... But let's hope Price breaks through this year at the WJC (and he better make the team this year )

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08-07-2006, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by your_rogers_bill View Post
how long has timmins been in charge of amateur scouting? i mean, if it dates back to 2003, he has yet to make the BPA selection work for him.

2003, picked kostitsyn with jeff carter, dustin brown, ryan getzlaf, etc... on the board
2004, picked chipchura with richards, meszaros, schremp, etc... on the board.
2005, picked price with brule, bourdon, staal, rask, etc... on the board.
Kostitsyn > Carter > Brown
Chipchura < Schremp < Meszaros
Price > Brule > Staal > Bourdon > Rask


Last edited by Talent Analyst: 08-07-2006 at 07:46 PM.
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08-07-2006, 04:19 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post
He is a great leader. That's the information you were missing.

And boy do every team need that !


Extract from : (sorry no working link anymore -- this is from a google cache...)

Apple Valley's David Fischer named Mr. Hockey
Roman Augustoviz, Star Tribune
Last update: March 12, 2006 9:58 PM


Future Gopher David Fischer, a 6-4 defenseman for Apple Valley, was named Mr. Hockey from among 10 finalists Sunday at a banquet at the RiverCentre.
"He's got one of those personalities that lights up a room and makes his teammates better," Eagles coach Jerry Hayes said. "You know he is a leader."

Fischer had a team-high 39 points this season for Apple Valley (14-10-4), which upset then-No. 1 Holy Angels 4-3 in the Class 2A section playoffs. He scored eight goals and had 31 assists.

"He had so much poise with the puck," Hayes said. "He was not one of those guys who was just going to throw [the puck]. So many high school hockey players, when they'd get in trouble, they would panic and throw it off the wall. David is a guy who will keep [the puck], he will regroup, he will circle a few times.

"He never lost control of his emotions or lost control of the game. He had that much confidence in his own ability to make plays, and that was something he always tried to do."

[...rest deleted out of respect... please search the web or contact newspaper for more)
Fischer is better than Emelin and O'Byrne .

Fischer > O'Byrne > Emelin

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