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Evgeny Artyukhin is playing in Russia

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Old
08-06-2006, 09:52 AM
  #26
Alessandro Seren Rosso
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what was artyukhin wage in tampa?

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08-06-2006, 09:53 AM
  #27
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His QO was for $662,000. I dont know what he got last year though...

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08-06-2006, 10:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
But why was Feaster trying to offer 2-way deals for guys who've just played a full season and presumably will next season as well?
Doesn't sound like it would have made a difference in the negotiations, but Feaster was willing to offer a one way deal if that's what it took to get a deal done.

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08-06-2006, 10:52 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
But why was Feaster trying to offer 2-way deals for guys who've just played a full season and presumably will next season as well?
Per today's Tampa Tribune:

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Feaster said. "I made the offers in one-year, two-year deals and on one-way contracts."

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08-06-2006, 07:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Per today's Tampa Tribune:
Gandler is so incredibly shady and a piss poor agent who has done major damage to more than one of his clients. I am absolutely shocked that people still hire him. In my mind, the guy is a fraud who looks out for his own interests and not that of his clients.
I dont feel bad for his clients however as there is plenty of ammunition against Gandler and if you sign with him, knowing his past you get what you deserve. He has many Russian clients so I am wondering who is telling these guys to sign with Gandler? There has got to be payoffs somewhere along the line.

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08-06-2006, 08:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Vedder19 View Post
What would you want for him from Toronto?

I also like that Craig guy.
I dont think Toronto has any interest in any Marc Gandler player. ...they have had more than enough of him in the past, to not want to deal with any of his clients.

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08-08-2006, 02:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by stardog View Post
Gandler is so incredibly shady and a piss poor agent who has done major damage to more than one of his clients. I am absolutely shocked that people still hire him. In my mind, the guy is a fraud who looks out for his own interests and not that of his clients.
I dont feel bad for his clients however as there is plenty of ammunition against Gandler and if you sign with him, knowing his past you get what you deserve. He has many Russian clients so I am wondering who is telling these guys to sign with Gandler? There has got to be payoffs somewhere along the line.
He does seem pretty cozy with the Russian teams, taking actions with his clients that often appear against his interests. I wonder if the NHL is reluctact to ever take any action with him, fearing more difficult relations with the Russian hockey clubs, who they already are having difficulty with.

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08-08-2006, 04:38 PM
  #33
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Considering that Artyukhin lowered his demands down to $750,000 which is closer to what the Lightning qualifying offer was, as opposed to his original demands, doesn't this number seem like a decent enough compromise? Arty could be very good, so you're going to argue over a $100,000 or so?

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08-08-2006, 04:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by stardog View Post
Gandler is so incredibly shady and a piss poor agent who has done major damage to more than one of his clients. I am absolutely shocked that people still hire him. In my mind, the guy is a fraud who looks out for his own interests and not that of his clients.
I dont feel bad for his clients however as there is plenty of ammunition against Gandler and if you sign with him, knowing his past you get what you deserve. He has many Russian clients so I am wondering who is telling these guys to sign with Gandler? There has got to be payoffs somewhere along the line.
All that Gandler probably needs to do is point to Yashin's contract to recruit clients. If the teams hate him then it is likely that the players love him.

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08-08-2006, 05:23 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Timmy1973 View Post
Considering that Artyukhin lowered his demands down to $750,000 which is closer to what the Lightning qualifying offer was, as opposed to his original demands, doesn't this number seem like a decent enough compromise? Arty could be very good, so you're going to argue over a $100,000 or so?
With Ryan Craig (48 games, 15 goals, 13 assists) signing a 2-way deal for $495,000, yes, that $100K for a guy with 72 games, 4 goals and 13 assists is worth arguing over (especially when he seemed to spend more time in the box than on the ice).

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08-08-2006, 06:33 PM
  #36
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it's somewhat similar to the Semin situation with Capitals...he has young russian rookies/prospects burning bridges with their NHL clubs before they even begin to start their careers

Artyukhin isnt blameless either though, I would doubt he would be that naive in thinking that by making the jump to the RSL, that isnt going to have a negative impact on his future dealings with the 'bolts

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08-09-2006, 07:40 AM
  #37
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750K is not a lot of money for a player like that. Tampa has over 20M in 3 players. I would love Clarke to trade for Art2. Ellison for Art2.


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08-09-2006, 09:07 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
750K is not a lot of money for a player like that.
If you read any of the articles about this situation, maybe then you'd understand why this is a problem. Hell, you don't even have to put in that much effort, read Boltsfan2029's post above.

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Tampa has over 20M in 3 players.
No way!? What does that have to do with anything?

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08-09-2006, 09:32 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sotnos View Post
If you read any of the articles about this situation, maybe then you'd understand why this is a problem. Hell, you don't even have to put in that much effort, read Boltsfan2029's post above.


No way!? What does that have to do with anything?

Everyone in Tampa whines and moans about team players, thats exactly what the 20M trio is right? See Elias, see Gaborik who is younger than all of them taking less than what couldve been offered elsewhere to stay with the "team". Our guys didnt and now management makes the rest of the players suffer.

And dont give me the crap about Craig, he was an 8th round pick with one less year under his belt and thats why his contract is still near his entry level. Arty was drafted higher and was paid more. Craig will get his raise once he's past those first few years and is hopefully still producing and not disappearing like he did the last two weeks of the season and throughout the OTT series. That may have hurt his payday essentially going AWOL for a month. Arty stepped up his play a bit in the playoffs and though not deserving of his initial numbers, the less than 100k difference at the end (750k one year) shouldnt have led to Feaster acting like a child in the paper. Only here in Tampa though I guess.

Let's leave money tied up in 3 goalies as well, that was a smart thing to do last year to really help us out this year. In the meantime this team will keep rotating players in and out on the lower lines and dumping them when they get too expensive...gotta give the trio their cash.

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08-09-2006, 09:44 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by GWF82 View Post
Everyone in Tampa whines and moans about team players, thats exactly what the 20M trio is right? See Elias, see Gaborik who is younger than all of them taking less than what couldve been offered elsewhere to stay with the "team". Our guys didnt and now management makes the rest of the players suffer.

And dont give me the crap about Craig, he was an 8th round pick with one less year under his belt and thats why his contract is still near his entry level. Arty was drafted higher and was paid more. Craig will get his raise once he's past those first few years and is hopefully still producing and not disappearing like he did the last two weeks of the season and throughout the OTT series. That may have hurt his payday essentially going AWOL for a month. Arty stepped up his play a bit in the playoffs and though not deserving of his initial numbers, the less than 100k difference at the end (750k one year) shouldnt have led to Feaster acting like a child in the paper. Only here in Tampa though I guess.

Let's leave money tied up in 3 goalies as well, that was a smart thing to do last year to really help us out this year. In the meantime this team will keep rotating players in and out on the lower lines and dumping them when they get too expensive...gotta give the trio their cash.
Glad to have you on board, Mr. Gandler.

It amazes me that people will sign up for new or dupe accounts just to post stuff like that. I'm also amazed at the people pretending to be Tampa fans lately.

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08-09-2006, 10:11 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sotnos View Post
If you read any of the articles about this situation, maybe then you'd understand why this is a problem. Hell, you don't even have to put in that much effort, read Boltsfan2029's post above.
we are talking about 100K-150K difference here. Art2 is not a scorer he is 250lbs 6'5 who will play against best players in the league. Ar2 was willing to play for 750K.
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No way!? What does that have to do with anything?
everything.

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08-09-2006, 10:49 AM
  #42
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we are talking about 100K-150K difference here. Art2 is not a scorer he is 250lbs 6'5 who will play against best players in the league. Ar2 was willing to play for 750K.
Well, R2 was supposed to develop into a scorer, but his most noticeable accomplishment was that he managed to spend more time in the box than on the ice, which isn't very helpful. Don't know for sure, but I have a gut feeling he cost us more goals while in the box than he scored for us.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like R2. But he's very raw, didn't learn as quickly as hoped and used negotiating tactics that certainly didn't help him in any way. His productivity and progress didn't warrant a raise of more than his qualifying offer. If he wants to play in Russia, fine, time will tell if it was the right move for the player. In the meantime, he didn't bring enough to the team yet that he will be particularly unreplaceable.

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08-09-2006, 02:41 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sotnos View Post
Glad to have you on board, Mr. Gandler.

It amazes me that people will sign up for new or dupe accounts just to post stuff like that. I'm also amazed at the people pretending to be Tampa fans lately.

To be honest, I'm around on the actual Lightning boards quite a bit, and I signed up in 01 or 02 there, so yes I was actually on the bandwagon pretty early! I even know who Kontos and Bradley and Selivanov are! for me!

I just dont dont see where losing a player with potential over less than 100K is very beneficial to the "team". You still havent answered what was "team" about guys like Richards and Vinny and Marty taking large contracts without thought to the effect it would have. Other teams' top players have taken less money in hopes that their teams stay productive and stay competitive. Or whats "team" about signing a 400 (yes thats a a joke) year-old goalie to a 2 year deal for more than most backups make in 3-4 years.

Craig is as much "potential" as Artyuhkin was, and signed for less merely because of the CBA and how his contract had to be drawn up. Again, if he performs he'll get his pay. Craig disappeared for a month of a season and definitely in the playoffs, how is that worth more than what he's earning now fresh off of an entry-level 8th round contract? He still got a raise and hopefully will produce on the second or third line.

Fans in Tampa seem to believe the only aspect of hockey is the scoring part, and are otherwise blind to the fact that you need the bangers, the muckers, the grinders to succeed. We have none. We have Tim Taylor who is up there in years, but is still an admirable face-off guy. DiMaio has had problems staying healthy and too is up there in years. Alexeev is coming back and could be a help if he decides he isnt afraid of his own shadow like he was a few years back. Perrin isnt built to play on a grinder line. Tarnasky and Reid both still need to learn to skate on an NHL level and dont have the speed to make any defenseman worry about them barrelling down on him in the corners like Evgeny did. We can bring Dingman back, but he wouldnt be any more beneficial and has no upside beyond last year like Arty did. 4 goals as a 4th liner playing 5-8 minutes a game isnt too bad, and people only point out the 4 goals, not the 13 others he helped someone else score. He creates havoc, as evidenced in the playoff series when Chara couldnt move him out of the front during the PP. He was +1 and scored a goal, had another disallowed. He was making things happen and was disciplined as the season progressed.

He had 90 PIMs, so did Lecavalier. Damn those guys always in the box. Take 22 away from the Gratton fight, the Phoenix boarding call that all here can agree wasnt worth the major, and the helmet incident which he paid for and appeared to learn from. Without those he had less than one 2-minute penalty for every 2 1/2 games he played. Not bad for a rookie his size still learnign the NHL game. If anything he backed off a bit after that play and was given a bit of a rep by the refs and had no one on the team would that could talk to the refs to stick up for him. It was said on another board that he shouldve taken that initiative. Has anyone ever seen a single rookie be given the time of day by a ref? What kind of statement is that? Even Sid was given the cold shoulder and the rep of a mouth for trying to talk to the refs.

So I ask you, who now can play physical on this team and have the upside he did for that size contract? Sometimes you need to pay just a bit extra for potential like his.

I'm more sick of this team giving up on players because of money or lack of success after a season, but here's to hoping if he doesnt come back here, he's dealt to another team and gets to play well like many other former Bolts have.

Our division got a bit more physical with the inclusion of: Florida getting Bertuzzi (who will do well to get away from Vancouver and the Avalanche and just play hockey) and young defenseman like Bryan Allen who love to play the body; Atlanta has its own physical players already (Exelby, Boulton) and banged on the Lightning; Carolina has Commodore and friends who play tough; and Washington is well Washington though Ovy was in the top 15 in hits last season. We were out played in that area last year and I see no improvement to think this team is capable of playing a physical style that many East teams bring.

Thanks though for that earlier speech I'm glad you think you know everyone on the internet, it did make me chuckle

This one's for you!




Oh, and I'll post more too, just so I'm not a troll as you say sir.


Last edited by GWF82: 08-09-2006 at 02:44 PM. Reason: misspelling from typing too fast, I'm sure there are more :)
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Old
08-09-2006, 05:40 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by GWF82 View Post
And dont give me the crap about Craig, he was an 8th round pick with one less year under his belt and thats why his contract is still near his entry level. Arty was drafted higher and was paid more. Craig will get his raise once he's past those first few years and is hopefully still producing and not disappearing like he did the last two weeks of the season and throughout the OTT series. That may have hurt his payday essentially going AWOL for a month. Arty stepped up his play a bit in the playoffs and though not deserving of his initial numbers, the less than 100k difference at the end (750k one year) shouldnt have led to Feaster acting like a child in the paper. Only here in Tampa though I guess.
Do you even know which player Craig is on the ice? #34?

The only reason you can say that R2 stepped up his play a bit was the fact that his playoff goal was his 1st point...POINT, not goal, since March 14 & 1st goal since Feb 9.

Good grief! R2 deserved either his QO in the form of a 2-way contract OR a one way for $450K. He wanted far more and a one way. Who acted like the child? The one who negotiated or the one who scampered away to mother Russia?

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08-09-2006, 05:54 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by GWF82 View Post
To be honest, I'm around on the actual Lightning boards quite a bit, and I signed up in 01 or 02 there
That tells me all I need to know, thanks.

Not that I should bother, but just glancing over your post, this caught my eye:

Quote:
And dont give me the crap about Craig, he was an 8th round pick with one less year under his belt and thats why his contract is still near his entry level.
They both signed standard entry-level contracts in '03, so Arty doesn't have any pro time over Craig.


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08-09-2006, 06:17 PM
  #46
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If Craig went MIA, what does that make R2 in that same span of time? Just because he brings size and some potential doesn't justify him and his agent coming in and demanding a million dollars. Sorry it doesn't work that way. And when Craig outproduces and outplays R2, being a higher draft pick doesn't make R2 set his own demands so he can earn over twice as much. Tarnasky will fill the void left by R2 in the physical department as by all accounts he's NHL ready. Bringing back worthless Dingman to fill a grinding role by watching him check the boards or fall trying to hit someone isn't going to get it done. I agree this team needs more grit.

No one stood up for R2? How about Torts getting EJECTED for yelling at the refs after a BS call in NJ and then talking in the media about how he has a bad rep. I'd say that's standing up for the kid. What's his potential exactly. He's big, can skate well for his size, and is physical. He has no finishing ability whatsoever. In one year of junior he scored 13 goals and that's the only time he's hit double digits. He's never going to be better than a 3rd liner who could have a role on a PP as a guy who can't be moved in front of the net. That's not worth overpaying. In a capped world, guys will be cut loose because of money reasons. You should get used to it. You criticize Jay for overpaying guys who have helped this team win a cup, and then criticize him for not overpaying a replaceable player because he has potential. The 100k isn't the thing that's getting him blasted by Feaster, it's the demanding of the million dollars and acting like he's a big shot who can get whatever he wants.

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08-09-2006, 06:19 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastoftheBrunnenG View Post
Do you even know which player Craig is on the ice? #34?

The only reason you can say that R2 stepped up his play a bit was the fact that his playoff goal was his 1st point...POINT, not goal, since March 14 & 1st goal since Feb 9.

Good grief! R2 deserved either his QO in the form of a 2-way contract OR a one way for $450K. He wanted far more and a one way. Who acted like the child? The one who negotiated or the one who scampered away to mother Russia?
I fail to see what you were actually trying to point out by giving me a players number? Maybe you can enlighten me on how that part of your post made any sense.?

Artyukhin isnt a scorer...yet, and you prove yet again that the peopel I read comments from only look at numbers to make a decision. You're telling me you dont wanmt a guy that Chara couldnt move out of the front of the net on the team? Arty was put there because Craig (#34 ) was being manhandled by the larger Ottawa D and wasn't producing.

What I want to know is how can you compare a 4th line winger, playing 5-8 minutes per game to a guy playing on the 2nd, 3rd and PP getting 10+ just about every night. The few times they moved Artyukhin to a higher line he actually played well. Tortorella likes to stick to his guns and sometimes at the behest of developing his younger players.It's the way it is, but it may bite them down the road unless theyre wanting to play plug-n-play year after year with the bottom lines.

We've seen quality players leave this organization and I'd think people would be willing to pay to develop someone here for these lines and have a static team for 2 seasons in a row. Chemistry is important, and the bottom lines here dont seem to ever have it because theyre like a revolving door.

There was no real negotiations fro mall I've read, they told Arty to take what they offer or be gone. His side came back with another offer and Feaster played tough cookie like he does and we are where we are.


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That tells me all I need to know, thanks.
Were you planning on adding anything of substance becasue I most certainly directed a few questions your way that I wouldnt mind seeing your answers to as you seem to "know" more than me and not just have your own opinions like I do.

Please enlighten me.

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08-09-2006, 06:21 PM
  #48
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That tells me all I need to know, thanks.

Not that I should bother, but just glancing over your post, this caught my eye:


They both signed standard entry-level contracts in '03, so Arty doesn't have any pro time over Craig.
Artyukhin was making pro money his last year in Russia that the Lightning had to match or better for him to come over here. He was in the same league whe was going to be now, which is a pro league and is paid like a pro league..I didnt say NHL, I said pro.

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08-09-2006, 06:35 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02 View Post
If Craig went MIA, what does that make R2 in that same span of time? Just because he brings size and some potential doesn't justify him and his agent coming in and demanding a million dollars. Sorry it doesn't work that way. And when Craig outproduces and outplays R2, being a higher draft pick doesn't make R2 set his own demands so he can earn over twice as much. Tarnasky will fill the void left by R2 in the physical department as by all accounts he's NHL ready. Bringing back worthless Dingman to fill a grinding role by watching him check the boards or fall trying to hit someone isn't going to get it done. I agree this team needs more grit.

No one stood up for R2? How about Torts getting EJECTED for yelling at the refs after a BS call in NJ and then talking in the media about how he has a bad rep. I'd say that's standing up for the kid. What's his potential exactly. He's big, can skate well for his size, and is physical. He has no finishing ability whatsoever. In one year of junior he scored 13 goals and that's the only time he's hit double digits. He's never going to be better than a 3rd liner who could have a role on a PP as a guy who can't be moved in front of the net. That's not worth overpaying. In a capped world, guys will be cut loose because of money reasons. You should get used to it. You criticize Jay for overpaying guys who have helped this team win a cup, and then criticize him for not overpaying a replaceable player because he has potential. The 100k isn't the thing that's getting him blasted by Feaster, it's the demanding of the million dollars and acting like he's a big shot who can get whatever he wants.

I've seen Tarnasky on several occasions in Springfield and he cannot skate with the NHL players. He will be able to in time I think, but its another project thats one year away more than likely. I dont see how he wont make the team, but your in the same position and with the same hands. Also add to that the fact that not a single player in the NHL is afraid of him, something that cant necessarily be said about Arty. He was able to cause a few giveaways with his size.

I'm still nto understanding everyone here's desire to see our 4th line score every time theyre on the ice. They need to take up space, hit the top line guys on the other team, and otherwsie make their presence known.

Torts isnt the one who can go to the officials and ask on ice why certain calls were made. Thats the role his teammates could have played and didnt. The coach should not be the only one.

Had he not backed off the million dollar asking price, he wouldve been nuts. The fact that the last offer was 750k isnt exactly a huge raise, and shouldnt be enough to throw away a prospect. I thought the 1 mil offer he made was nuts, and thats completely Gandler's fault. However the second offer wasnt soemthing to immediately back away from. Are you telling me you dont want a 3rd line guy who can hit, protect Brad and Marty and potentially be immovable in front of the net on the PP?

Feaster did put himself in the hole with his contracts and deserves to be ripped. They won the Stanley Cup. They may never again. They need to at least show me they'll compete again and with those straps on his arms they may not be able to. Alexeev and Perrin being brought back? Jokes right? No, thats all they could afford to pick up.

There are several players in the 1 mil + range that dont deserve the money, as they scored less and had even less points last year than Arty. First and foremost would be Jarkko Ruutu who is making 1.3 this year and is simply a pest. He will however be Sid's "middleweight bodyguard" and drive Eastern Conference teams batty. Arty with more size, twice the speed and who can hit like a train doesnt deserve hald his pay?

Thats the way the Lightning are going, and we'll see where it takes them. Hopefully for the better, we definitely cant judge anything before even training camp. Its all my opinion though, and thats all of what I've posted...and its funny that people are so offended by opinions

This will be my last post in this thread so anything else directed to me should be a message to me, I'm off to share my opinion somewhere else here

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08-09-2006, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GWF82 View Post

I'm still nto understanding everyone here's desire to see our 4th line score every time theyre on the ice. They need to take up space, hit the top line guys on the other team, and otherwsie make their presence known.
I don't expect them to see the 4th line score every shift. I'm just asking what his "potential" is exactly. It's not much better than a 3rd liner so I don't know why you bring it up. I'd like to see him develop as a 2nd line winger, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Quote:
Torts isnt the one who can go to the officials and ask on ice why certain calls were made. Thats the role his teammates could have played and didnt. The coach should not be the only one.
The players usually talk to officials if they feel a call is bad and want to know why the official made the call. They did that for R2 as well as everyone else on the team. You act like they didn't like him and never wanted to defend him. The refs calling weak calls against him was a reason he backed off his physical play, not because he moped about his teammates not sticking up for him(which they did for some of his calls).

Quote:
Had he not backed off the million dollar asking price, he wouldve been nuts. The fact that the last offer was 750k isnt exactly a huge raise, and shouldnt be enough to throw away a prospect. I thought the 1 mil offer he made was nuts, and thats completely Gandler's fault. However the second offer wasnt soemthing to immediately back away from. Are you telling me you dont want a 3rd line guy who can hit, protect Brad and Marty and potentially be immovable in front of the net on the PP?
It wasn't the only thing that made Feaster walk away. The first asking price was still fresh in mind and R2's attitude was what made Jay walk away. When did he ever protect anyone on the team. He fought Gratton and bashed Vermette in the head with a helmet. He never protected any of the other players. A guy like Todd Fedoruk who played with Perry and Getzlaf in Anaheim is someone who can protect star players because he can drop the gloves, R2 didn't do that for any teammates. I never said I didn't want R2 on the team, but why should Jay give in to his demands when he's acting like the Lightning owe him something.

Quote:
There are several players in the 1 mil + range that dont deserve the money, as they scored less and had even less points last year than Arty. First and foremost would be Jarkko Ruutu who is making 1.3 this year and is simply a pest. He will however be Sid's "middleweight bodyguard" and drive Eastern Conference teams batty. Arty with more size, twice the speed and who can hit like a train doesnt deserve hald his pay?
Comparing an RFA and UFA contract is comparing apples and oranges. UFAs will make more than RFAs unless the team is buying out his FA years. Ruutu plays a different role than R2. Why compare them anyway? Like you said he is a pest, not a bodyguard (he never sticks up for himself, why would he stick up for Crosby). R2 isn't that role. You said Craig has to earn his paydays, so does R2. I don't think skating fast, having size, and hitting people should be the only reason he earns a raise. And if those are the only reasons why he should earn a raise, then he shouldn't get a raise because he was timid near the end of the season. I don't think what he did last year earns him a raise. Craig was the better player last year (not just on the scoresheet, in other areas as well) and R2 was offered more money on a one year deal. He hasn't done much to earn anything more than his qualifying offer. I'm not using stats as the only basis, he was a 4th liner last year so he shouldn't be making demands. Like I said, the 750k asking price wasn't the problem, it was most likely his attitude and 1st asking price. I just don't think he's earned the right to set his own asking price and the Lightning should give in to those.


Quote:
This will be my last post in this thread so anything else directed to me should be a message to me, I'm off to share my opinion somewhere else here
Well then later I guess. I like debating so if you would like to come back to the thread, please do so. Your opinion doesn't "offend" me, if you were refering to me, I just don't agree with it. Since you seem to be a Lightning fan, I hope to see you on the Lightning board during the season.

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