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Poll on is Luongo better than Kipper?

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Old
08-12-2006, 07:58 AM
  #76
Laus723
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Originally Posted by TaraLeone View Post
If Kipprusoff played behind the worst defense in the NHL he still wouldn't face as many shots as Luongo did with Florida. Almost every shot he faces head on is directed into the corners, in the rare occasion that he kicks it into the slot the Flames' defense picks up the slack. The Flames' defense was spectacular last season but when your offense is one of the worst in the NHL, then both your goaltender and your defense need to be spectacular to rank as high as Calgary did in 05/06.

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08-12-2006, 08:31 AM
  #77
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Personally, I don't care. As long Kipper is playing that way he had played, I'm damn happy with him and won't bother my little brain with question like that.


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08-12-2006, 08:59 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I know that my grammar wasn't perfect and that using multiple tenses in a sentance is against the rules of the English language. Personally, I don't care, my point should not be confusing.

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08-12-2006, 09:11 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
Luongo is Canadas top 2 goalie. I dont see Kippursoff if he was Canadian, landing a number 1 or backup job for Team Canada, so Luongo is better then Kippursoff.
Well now, with logic like that- case closed!!

Ask yourself this- would you trade for either of them straight up? I say not right now. Luongo is potential greatness, Kipper has achieved it. I can't think of one Flames fan that would do it, but I'm sure there are Canucks fans that would do it in a second.

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08-12-2006, 09:18 AM
  #80
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Read 'The Game' by Ken Dryden, or at least the part when he talks about 'good good team goalies' and 'good bad team goalies' - some goalies need to face 35+ shots a night to be in the right mental state, and so are much better on poor defensive teams. On those weak teams, their spectacular saves give the other players more morale and give them the chance to win a majority of games. 'Good bad-team goalies' also have terrible games when they can't seem to stop anything. 'Good good-team goalies' may not be able to handle that much work, and aren't always as spectacular, but they are able to keep their focus in a game with few shots and make the few difficult saves that they need to win the game. This gives their team confidence that their goalie won't let them down - nothing deflates a confident team more than a bad goal (re: Cloutier).

Dryden was a very solid goalie for a good team but at the same time he knew that some other goalies on weaker teams faced more shots, made more saves (and more spectacular saves) than him. I think one of his examples was Rogie Vachon who played for LA. Does it mean that Dryden > Vachon or that Vachon > Dryden? It doesn't mean either. Dryden's point is that if he had played for LA, he probably wouldn't have done as well as Vachon; while if Vachon had played for Montreal, he wouldn't have had as much success as Dryden.

You can make similar points about Kiprusoff versus Luongo. Kipper has shown he can have success and keep his focus on a strong defensive team that doesn't let up many shots, but each game requires him to make a few amazing saves - he's more of a 'good good-team goalie'. Luongo on the other hand has been pretty spectacular on a poor defensive team facing loads of shots - more like a 'good bad-team goalie'.

If it comes down to the question - would you trade Kipper for Luongo (all salary, contract, cap issues aside)? - then I would say it depends on what kind of team you have and what kind of team you want to be. A tough defensive team like Calgary is likely to have more success with a Kipper-type, but a team that has more holes, or that likes to run and gun - and let up the scoring chances that result - may be better to go with a Luongo-type.

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08-12-2006, 01:33 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tysester View Post
Read 'The Game' by Ken Dryden, or at least the part when he talks about 'good good team goalies' and 'good bad team goalies' - some goalies need to face 35+ shots a night to be in the right mental state, and so are much better on poor defensive teams. On those weak teams, their spectacular saves give the other players more morale and give them the chance to win a majority of games. 'Good bad-team goalies' also have terrible games when they can't seem to stop anything. 'Good good-team goalies' may not be able to handle that much work, and aren't always as spectacular, but they are able to keep their focus in a game with few shots and make the few difficult saves that they need to win the game. This gives their team confidence that their goalie won't let them down - nothing deflates a confident team more than a bad goal (re: Cloutier).

Dryden was a very solid goalie for a good team but at the same time he knew that some other goalies on weaker teams faced more shots, made more saves (and more spectacular saves) than him. I think one of his examples was Rogie Vachon who played for LA. Does it mean that Dryden > Vachon or that Vachon > Dryden? It doesn't mean either. Dryden's point is that if he had played for LA, he probably wouldn't have done as well as Vachon; while if Vachon had played for Montreal, he wouldn't have had as much success as Dryden.

You can make similar points about Kiprusoff versus Luongo. Kipper has shown he can have success and keep his focus on a strong defensive team that doesn't let up many shots, but each game requires him to make a few amazing saves - he's more of a 'good good-team goalie'. Luongo on the other hand has been pretty spectacular on a poor defensive team facing loads of shots - more like a 'good bad-team goalie'.

If it comes down to the question - would you trade Kipper for Luongo (all salary, contract, cap issues aside)? - then I would say it depends on what kind of team you have and what kind of team you want to be. A tough defensive team like Calgary is likely to have more success with a Kipper-type, but a team that has more holes, or that likes to run and gun - and let up the scoring chances that result - may be better to go with a Luongo-type.
I actually understand what you're saying, and Luongo seems this way. When he faces a ton of shots, which everyone credits the defense for allowing, Luongo seems spot on and makes the spectacular save, when Louie faces less shots in a game, he seems to be caught off guard when a solid shot comes his way, thus allowing a weak goal, instead of the amazing save.

People tend to look at the amount of shots he faces, teh highlight reels, and the other stats to make the assumption that Luongo is the best goalie in the leauge, but for guys who watch him game in and game out (though many fel otherwise), we tend to see the truth. Find video of Luongo in a game where he doesn't face a lot of shots, the Panthers tend to lose those, where Luongo tends to shine in the games that everyone carries on about Florida's defense being crappy. It tends to be a lose-lose for Florida's D with Luongo.

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08-13-2006, 01:09 PM
  #82
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Obviously you have to take Kipper right now. He's just more proven at the later stages of the game
But Luongo hasn't had the chance to get there yet. When he does we will really be able to judge.

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08-13-2006, 01:52 PM
  #83
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Weird how its always the defence that gets credit when talking who the best goalie is and then its Kipper that gets the credit when talking about the best defence in the league.

Truth is, neither is overrated. Calgary has the best goalie in the world and a top 3 defence in the NHL.

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08-14-2006, 12:37 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
Weird how its always the defence that gets credit when talking who the best goalie is and then its Kipper that gets the credit when talking about the best defence in the league.

Truth is, neither is overrated. Calgary has the best goalie in the world and a top 3 defence in the NHL.
I'm with you on this. I'm sick of hearing the flip arguments on either Kipper or the Defense getting padded stats or not as good as they appear. Truth is Kipper is a Vezina Goalie ..period and the defense is among tops in the league.

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08-14-2006, 09:09 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko View Post
I'm with you on this. I'm sick of hearing the flip arguments on either Kipper or the Defense getting padded stats or not as good as they appear. Truth is Kipper is a Vezina Goalie ..period and the defense is among tops in the league.
Very True.

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Old
08-15-2006, 02:44 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bletchley View Post
Kipper is the best goalie on the planet. Luongo is top 10.

What a ridiculas comparison.

LMFAO your statement is ridiculas

if you think comparing a goalie who is the best in the world.......to a goalie who is probably top 5 in the world...ridiculas..ure a dumbass

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Old
08-15-2006, 01:26 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
Luongo is Canadas top 2 goalie. I dont see Kippursoff if he was Canadian, landing a number 1 or backup job for Team Canada, so Luongo is better then Kippursoff.


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