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worst to win the calder

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Old
08-10-2006, 07:44 AM
  #1
yzerman4me
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worst to win the calder

hey all, just curious to see if theres anyone thats won the calder and nver again had a good season or tuned out to be a bust?

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08-10-2006, 08:04 AM
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MojoJojo
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Ovechkin! Never even scored a point after winning the Calder!

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08-10-2006, 08:56 AM
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Kimi
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Going back 40 years, most people came out fine. Not all super stars (going by numbers for the most part and I never saw them play). Brit Selby and Willi Plett seem to be the worse by number, but they play a lot of games, so arn't really busts IMO.

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08-10-2006, 09:02 AM
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cassius
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Raycroft?

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08-10-2006, 09:14 AM
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Greeneye
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Wow I just looked through the winners because I was sure one was a flash in the pan but none struck out other than maybe Raycroft.

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08-10-2006, 09:15 AM
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Ludo
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2004: Andrew Raycroft (time will tell)
1977: Willi Plett (made my list based on career stats)
1968: Brit Selby (made my list based on career stats)

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08-10-2006, 10:44 AM
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octopi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
Ovechkin! Never even scored a point after winning the Calder!

Heh, called that one, didn't you?

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08-10-2006, 10:45 AM
  #8
JonathanK
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This isn't really a bust by any means but wasn't Selanne's rookie season his best by far?

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08-10-2006, 01:39 PM
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Darz
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Sergei Makarov should be on the list.

Granted he didn't start playing in the league til after he was 31 or so, but he definately went down prety fast after his rookie year.


Bryan Berard probablely deserves mention as well.

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08-10-2006, 01:44 PM
  #10
Kimi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Sergei Makarov should be on the list.

Granted he didn't start playing in the league til after he was 31 or so, but he definately went down prety fast after his rookie year.


Bryan Berard probablely deserves mention as well.
I wouldn't put Makarov on the list as he shouldn't have been taken at 31. He was already a good player when he was a rookie in the NHL, unlike the player in the teens/early twenties that normally get the trophy.

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08-10-2006, 02:09 PM
  #11
HabsUnited
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Didn't Jim Carey win the Calder? Now that's a bust.

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Old
08-10-2006, 02:14 PM
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God Bless Canada
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Originally Posted by HabsUnited View Post
Didn't Jim Carey win the Calder? Now that's a bust.
No. Forsberg won the Calder that year. Deep year for the Calder race, too.

This question came up a couple months ago. pnep, in typical pnep fashion, provided a list of the players who enjoyed the least amount of success following a Calder victory. Answered most of our questions.

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08-10-2006, 02:15 PM
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God Bless Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Sergei Makarov should be on the list.

Granted he didn't start playing in the league til after he was 31 or so, but he definately went down prety fast after his rookie year.


Bryan Berard probablely deserves mention as well.
Sergei Makarov is, for my money, the best player not in the HHOF. In terms of the NHL, he struggled to match his rookie year form, but as you noted, there are other factors.

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08-10-2006, 02:31 PM
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ScaredStreit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Sergei Makarov should be on the list.

Granted he didn't start playing in the league til after he was 31 or so, but he definately went down prety fast after his rookie year.


Bryan Berard probablely deserves mention as well.
I disagree. Berard was the best D the Isles had for a few years-and even on Toronto he was solid. before his injury he was always a top 4 D-not a bust. Not a great player, but not a bust. The only really bad season he had was the first after his injury-which is certainly understandable.

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08-10-2006, 03:59 PM
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Darz
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Originally Posted by Damannnnaa View Post
I disagree. Berard was the best D the Isles had for a few years-and even on Toronto he was solid. before his injury he was always a top 4 D-not a bust. Not a great player, but not a bust. The only really bad season he had was the first after his injury-which is certainly understandable.
At no point did I call Berard a bust, but when looking at the players who have won the Calder, Berard is definately in the botton 5 or so in the last 20-25 years. Yes, his injury had a lot to do with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi View Post
I wouldn't put Makarov on the list as he shouldn't have been taken at 31. He was already a good player when he was a rookie in the NHL, unlike the player in the teens/early twenties that normally get the trophy.
Well he should of never won the Calder, but since he did.......

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Old
08-10-2006, 11:51 PM
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pnep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
This question came up a couple months ago. pnep, in typical pnep fashion, provided a list of the players who enjoyed the least amount of success following a Calder victory. Answered most of our questions.
worst to win the calder (retired players only)

Player -- POS
====================
1 - Gelineau Jack - G
2 - Selby Brit - LW
3 - Quilty John - C
4 - Macdonald Kilby - LW
5 - Lund Pentti - RW
6 - Voss Carl - C
7 - Blinco Russ - C
8 - Douglas Kent - D
9 - Makarov Sergei - RW
10 - Warwick Grant Knobby - RW

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Old
08-11-2006, 12:25 AM
  #17
sweetcrude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludo View Post
2004: Andrew Raycroft (time will tell)
1977: Willi Plett (made my list based on career stats)
1968: Brit Selby (made my list based on career stats)
I have to stand up for Willi Plett I guess here. Yes, it's true his stats did tail off. I'm not sure how or why his role changed, but he went from being an aggressive FWD with a scroing touch to being a "tough guy" with a bit of flair for scoring. Penalty minutes went way up about midway through his career.

Played a lot of games though. I'd say not a bust.



One player that really disappointed me though was Pavel Bure. He did great for years and then injuries seemed to do him in. He was never really afforded the career I think he should have had. Certainly not a bust though.

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08-11-2006, 03:13 AM
  #18
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Berard is probably the worst post-expansion, amongst guys who are retired or whose careers have largely played out. Raycroft might steal that title, and Jackman didn't look too impressive last year either.

Plett wasn't bad at all - put up quality numbers for close to a decade (1976-85), and was a very good B-level power-forward with six 20-goal seasons, two 30-goal seasons, and well over 200 career goals.

The run of winners from 1978-1995 is amazing. Worst winner in that period (if we take Makarov's entire career into account) is probably Gary Suter, a nearly HHOF-calibre defender. 2nd-worst is Steve Larmer, who scored over 1000 points. 14 of those 18 winners will probably end up in the HHOF, and the other 4 aren't far off.

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Old
08-11-2006, 12:08 PM
  #19
God Bless Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damannnnaa View Post
I disagree. Berard was the best D the Isles had for a few years-and even on Toronto he was solid. before his injury he was always a top 4 D-not a bust. Not a great player, but not a bust. The only really bad season he had was the first after his injury-which is certainly understandable.
Best of a bad lot could be the applicable expression. (Although I would have taken a healthy Kenny Jonsson over Berard when the two played on the Island). I don't know if I would say Berard was "solid" during his Toronto tenure: he was error-prone and had a penchant for making bad passes in his own zone. Even before the injury, most hockey people had conceded that Redden would be the better defenceman.

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08-11-2006, 01:54 PM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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Howie Meeker (same year Howe was a rookie)

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08-11-2006, 02:40 PM
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Nalyd Psycho
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Howie Meeker (same year Howe was a rookie)
Scary thing, Meeker was better than Howe. But Meeker is one of those worst. Short career, never came close to his rookie year scoring numbers.

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Old
08-11-2006, 02:44 PM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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Scary thing, Meeker was better than Howe. But Meeker is one of those worst. Short career, never came close to his rookie year scoring numbers.
Howe was 18 years old and Meeker was 24. That and the fact Meeker played with Apps and Kennedy are the only reasons Meeker was better as a rookie. At 24, Howe was the best hockey player in the world.

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Old
08-11-2006, 04:06 PM
  #23
ForsbergForever
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Barret Jackman in 2003? Zetterberg would have been the logical choice...

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Old
08-11-2006, 05:13 PM
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Barret Jackman in 2003? Zetterberg would have been the logical choice...
No, Jackman played better that year. Zetterberg had a great finish to the season, but wasn't much of a factor in the first three or four months of the season. Jackman stepped into the St. Louis line-up and was a physical, defensive force right away. He played top-two minutes for the Blues many nights, too, because that was the year Pronger only played a few games. Zetterberg's the better player now, no doubt about it, but in 2002-03, Jackman was the better player.

MS, who's your fourth player? Suter, Larmer and Bobby Smith are three. Who would be No. 4? Barasso? Nieuwendyk? Makarov? (Should have been inducted years ago). Bure? (I think three of those four I just listed belong. I think we all know which one I think doesn't belong in the HHOF).

As much as we harp about the relevance of the Calder, when you look at the winners, often the Calder winner does go on to have the best career, or at the very least become an elite, even an HHOF, player.

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08-11-2006, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
Ovechkin! Never even scored a point after winning the Calder!

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