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worst to win the calder

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Old
08-12-2006, 03:16 AM
  #26
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Howe was 18 years old and Meeker was 24. That and the fact Meeker played with Apps and Kennedy are the only reasons Meeker was better as a rookie. At 24, Howe was the best hockey player in the world.
Of course that's true. It's also not a concideration when determining the best rookie. That's why Meeker is arguably the worst ever, because his great rookie year as an older rookie on a great line, is the pinnacle of his career.

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Old
08-12-2006, 11:03 AM
  #27
ryz
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Berrard beating out Iginla was a joke.

Jackman was a very weak Calder winner also.

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Old
08-12-2006, 01:08 PM
  #28
EpochLink
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I have to agree on that, Bryan Berard getting the Calder over Iginla was a joke, Iginla had a solid rookie season posting 21 goals and 50 points, fourth in team scoring on a sub par Calgary team, and he also made the all-rookie team. After that year Jarome developed into one of the best players in the game today, its unfortunate that Berard had that eye injury but clearly, Iginla had a better rookie season that him...

I wouldn't say that Larmer is the worst since he had a pretty good career, the third longest iron man streak in the history of the league, constant 80 point a year scorer, a cup ring, played on a powerhouse Chicago Blackhawks team when they were considered powerhouses in the 80's and 90's..but still not the worse, there was no one better than him in 82-83 when he won the Calder with his 43 goal-90 point output, the runner up was Phil Housley's 66 points..

Gary Suter is again, a hall of fame worthy defensemen, he had a pretty good career, a cup ring, he posted 800 points, played 1100 games and had over 600 assists, 200 goals, pretty good for a dman in the time of Chelios, Coffey, Leetch, Bourque..but again not the worst

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Old
08-12-2006, 01:58 PM
  #29
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I agree that berard's in the bottom 5 players of the past 20-25 seasons. But I really do think he deserved the calder of Iginla. Berard was on a terrible Islander team (all their younger guys turned out to dominate the league years later though ). Iginla was a close second, but Berard had a great rookie season-especially for a defensemen on one of the worst teams-if not the worst team in the league. He had 48 points-which is good any D especially in the old NHL, and a rookie D. He also had a +1-amazing considering the team once again.

I will admit I'm bias and if I liked a team other then Calgary or the Isles I might view it differently. But I wouldn't say Berard beating out Iginla for it being a "joke".

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08-12-2006, 02:01 PM
  #30
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Old
08-12-2006, 02:09 PM
  #31
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Raycrofts year was incredibly weak. Didn't Trent Hunter finish 3rd or something?
Jackman wasn't great either.

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Old
08-12-2006, 02:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Raycrofts year was incredibly weak. Didn't Trent Hunter finish 3rd or something?
Jackman wasn't great either.
Ryder or Bergeron would have been better choices. Ryder for scoring 65 pts and Bergeron for having an impact as an 18 year old.

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Old
08-12-2006, 05:18 PM
  #33
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Ray Bourque.

Wayne Gretzky clearly outclassed him as a rookie that season.

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08-12-2006, 06:57 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Ray Bourque.

Wayne Gretzky clearly outclassed him as a rookie that season.
Gretzky wasn't considered a rookie because he played in the WHA which the NHL considered a pro league.

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Old
08-12-2006, 07:08 PM
  #35
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Andrew Raycroft

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Old
08-12-2006, 09:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DaBadGuy7 View Post
Gretzky wasn't considered a rookie because he played in the WHA which the NHL considered a pro league.
He knows that he is implying that Gretzky should have been considered a rookie in his first NHL season.

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Old
08-18-2006, 11:22 AM
  #37
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I'd have to go with Howie Meeker as well. Great guy, funny as heck, but didn't do much after his rookie season.

Berard was a GOOD choice his rookie year. Iginla wasn't all that great his rookie season (but certainly not bad, either), and as was pointed out earlier, Berard was playing "d" on a terrible team...and still came out a "+" player!

Who the he** is Jack Gelineau (1950 winner)? Maybe HE should be the winner of this discussion!

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Old
08-18-2006, 11:29 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMaiden View Post
I have to agree on that, Bryan Berard getting the Calder over Iginla was a joke, Iginla had a solid rookie season posting 21 goals and 50 points, fourth in team scoring on a sub par Calgary team, and he also made the all-rookie team. After that year Jarome developed into one of the best players in the game today, its unfortunate that Berard had that eye injury but clearly, Iginla had a better rookie season that him...
As a neutral, I cant agree it's clear at all. Iginla scored just 2 more points and Berard played on defense. What happened after that year is utterly irrelevant. Making the all-rookie team is not an argument for winning the Calder, you have four others on it too. I'd say Berard deserved it.

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Old
08-18-2006, 12:00 PM
  #39
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Raycroft and Jackman

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Old
08-18-2006, 12:10 PM
  #40
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What has Barrett Jackman done for you lately?

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Old
08-18-2006, 12:52 PM
  #41
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Pathetic how people can put Raycroft name here ?

He play a total of 30 games in the only season after his Calder trophy !

I agree he wasn't exactly good last year, but please wait a little before call him a bust.


57GM 29 Win 18 Lost 9 tie 2.05 GAA .926 SP is great numbers for a rookie goalie even a veteran, so he deserve every right of winning the Calder trophy.

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08-18-2006, 01:01 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryz View Post
Berrard beating out Iginla was a joke.

Jackman was a very weak Calder winner also.
Berard scored 2 fewer points than Iginla as a defenseman, how is that a joke? Obviously Iginla went on to become the better player, but the point of the Calder is not to judge who will become the best player, but which eligible rookie had the best season. And like most NHL awards, the Calder is primarily stat driven.

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Old
08-18-2006, 01:07 PM
  #43
Ruzicka38
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This is all before my time (I'm 28), but these are winners I've never heard of so they couldn't have gone on to do too much.

Eric Vail and Steve Vickers. If I'm wrong, please tell me.

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Old
08-18-2006, 01:09 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruzicka38 View Post
This is all before my time (I'm 28), but these are winners I've never heard of so they couldn't have gone on to do too much.

Eric Vail and Steve Vickers. If I'm wrong, please tell me.
I really like Vail in his first couple of year with Tom Lysiak, But I agree he lost his touch pretty fast

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08-18-2006, 02:27 PM
  #45
reckoning
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It`s far too early for anyone to call Raycroft a bust. It`s not uncommon for a goalie to have a great rookie season then slump the following year. It happened to Grant Fuhr and Pelle Lindbergh; they both bounced back. Raycroft without question deserved the award in `04.

Quote:
This is all before my time (I'm 28), but these are winners I've never heard of so they couldn't have gone on to do too much.

Eric Vail and Steve Vickers. If I'm wrong, please tell me.

Steve Vickers actually had a very solid career, though he retired early at age 30. He had 4 30+ goal seasons and was one of the top defensive forwards of the 70s. Eric Vail had a reputation as someone who liked to stay out late partying, which may explain why he never matched the promise he showed as a rookie. When he was on his game though, he was deadly with the puck. Ken Dryden has said he was one of the shooters he had the most trouble playing against.


Last edited by reckoning: 08-18-2006 at 02:40 PM.
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Old
08-18-2006, 02:30 PM
  #46
Psycho Papa Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
It`s far too early for anyone to call Raycroft a bust. It`s not uncommon for a goalie to have a great rookie season then slump the following year. It happened to Grant Fuhr and Pelle Lindbergh; they both bounced back. Raycroft without question deserved the award in `04.

This is all before my time (I'm 28), but these are winners I've never heard of so they couldn't have gone on to do too much.

Eric Vail and Steve Vickers. If I'm wrong, please tell me.
Vickers had a pretty good career.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=5575

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Old
08-18-2006, 02:34 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
and Vail's numbers are sort of similar, not quite as good. still three 30 goals seasons, 28 twice. fell quickly off the map though


http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php3?pid=5526

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Old
08-18-2006, 02:36 PM
  #48
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Berard wasn't a horrible winner, but if I remember correctly, Brian Campbell finished 2nd in voting that year - beating Jarome Iginla. That was pretty bad.

And I'm not so sure what was terrible about Makarov winning it. Given the rules at the time, he was good choice.

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Old
08-18-2006, 02:59 PM
  #49
EpochLink
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Barrett Jackman won the Calder Trophy in 2003 over Henrik Zetterberg, Rick Nash and Jay Bouwmeester....fast forward to 2006 and Barrett Jackman had a terrible season and didn't really have a season of coming out on "his own"..meaning that when he won the Calder he had Al McInnis helping him, when Bryan Berard won it..he was all by himself on that pitifull Islander team and defense, hell he ANCHORED the defense..

This year Zetterberg came into his own, teaming up with Datsyuk to form a one-two punch for the future of the Red Wings..

Rick Nash won the Richard trophy in 2004 and scored 30 goals this season dispite missing a hand full of games..

Jay Bouwmeester had a good year and was 5th in team scoring

Im not saying Jackman is a bad player but im not convinced he deserved the Calder that year...maybe this year he'll come into his own and prove to be the shutdown defesemen for the Blues..

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Old
08-18-2006, 03:42 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Berard wasn't a horrible winner, but if I remember correctly, Brian Campbell finished 2nd in voting that year - beating Jarome Iginla. That was pretty bad.

And I'm not so sure what was terrible about Makarov winning it. Given the rules at the time, he was good choice.
Berard won the Calder in 1996 or 1997 and Brian Campbell was drafted in 1997 by the Sabres and hadn't played a game when Berard won, I believe.

So no, you don't remember correctly

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