HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

worst to win the calder

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-18-2006, 04:16 PM
  #51
blue dave
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas TX
Country: United States
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to blue dave Send a message via Yahoo to blue dave
Barret Jackman suffered a shoulder injury in 2003 during the playoffs with Vancouver via a questionable Todd Bertuzzi hit. He reinjured it again in the beginning of 03-04 and missed the rest of the season after only playing 15 games. During the lockout he played 28 games for the Missouri River Otters of the UHL which is a big step down from the NHL. In my opinion this more than his injuries slowed his development and caused his slow start to last season.
He was starting to tear it up toward the end of the season, but since the Blues didn't have anyone worthy of being called an enforcer last year, he tried to take that on, but was over his head and ended up with a season ending broken jaw.
If he can stay healthy and leave the enforcing to the better fighters he'll have another breakout season. He has the potential to be a #2 or #3 defensmen if he can stay healthy.

blue dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2006, 04:19 PM
  #52
looooob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,886
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
Berard won the Calder in 1996 or 1997 and Brian Campbell was drafted in 1997 by the Sabres and hadn't played a game when Berard won, I believe.

So no, you don't remember correctly
possibly means Jim Campbell ( who I think actually finished 3 in the voting)

looooob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2006, 04:29 PM
  #53
Sens4Cup
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 986
vCash: 500
Alfredsson's the worst for sure.

I mean the guy has only reached 100 points once, and only got 40 goals once too.

Come on!

Sens4Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2006, 06:00 PM
  #54
Troy Gamble
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 138
vCash: 500
Alright... this is my first post on the hockey history part of this board (fleeing from all the trolls I am) so I'll try to make it as respectable as possible.

My candidates for top Calder busts are...

Kilby MacDonald
Played 151 NHL games, which denotes some talent, but his career was interupted by a two-year stint in the AHL from 1941-43. That tells me he was pretty fringy. His career high of 28 points in 45 games in his rookie year is reasonable for the era, but he never came remotely close to that modest production again.

Jack Gelineau
Played 143 games in goal for Boston and Chicago interupted by two seasons in the AHL. Judging by his stats his lone ability was logging minutes on a bad team. He played a league high 4,200 minutes in 1950-51 with a subpar 2.81 goals-against average (judged by standards of the day)
He played 4,020 minutes the year previous with equally dismal results. After those two workhorse seasons he played two more games for Chitown and went away.


Honourable mentions to John Quilty, Larry Regan

There were plenty of possible candidates, but I gave a bit of slack to guys who showed NHL longevity, because that at least indicates enough talent to have staying power.

Troy Gamble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2006, 06:56 PM
  #55
Torch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob View Post
possibly means Jim Campbell ( who I think actually finished 3 in the voting)
Yes, thanks.

I meant Jim Campbell. It's easy to get those generic names mixed up.

For some reason I thought he finished 2nd in the voting. Regardless, where is he now?

Torch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2006, 08:48 PM
  #56
jumptheshark
the burn out
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,829
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Sergei Makarov should be on the list.

Granted he didn't start playing in the league til after he was 31 or so, but he definately went down prety fast after his rookie year.


Bryan Berard probablely deserves mention as well.
Makarove gets my vote--he was too old to win any way

__________________
not sure how--but the fish just jumped in the boat and put the hook in it's mouth
52299/14814
The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2006, 10:43 PM
  #57
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Gamble View Post
My candidates for top Calder busts are...

Kilby MacDonald
Played 151 NHL games, which denotes some talent, but his career was interupted by a two-year stint in the AHL from 1941-43. That tells me he was pretty fringy. His career high of 28 points in 45 games in his rookie year is reasonable for the era, but he never came remotely close to that modest production again.

Jack Gelineau
Played 143 games in goal for Boston and Chicago interupted by two seasons in the AHL. Judging by his stats his lone ability was logging minutes on a bad team. He played a league high 4,200 minutes in 1950-51 with a subpar 2.81 goals-against average (judged by standards of the day)
He played 4,020 minutes the year previous with equally dismal results. After those two workhorse seasons he played two more games for Chitown and went away.
I tried to do a little research on those two guys. They both won their Calders when they were in their mid-20s, so they wouldn`t have as many years ahead of them as someone who won it at 19 or 20.
MacDonald joined the Army in 1943 and served as a private in the Canadian Military Staff Clerks. For whatever reason, when he resumed his career he often suffered from illness and couldn`t get back on track.
With Gelineau, the Bruins simply decided to go with Sugar Jim Henry as their goalie. Back in those days there were no backup goalies, the starters were expected to play the full season unless they injured. There were only 6 spots in the NHL, in `51-`52 they belonged to Sawchuk, Rayner, Lumely, Rollins, MacNeil and Henry. Hard to crack that group. Gelineau may very well have been the 7th best goalie in the game then, but that wouldn`t keep your job in the NHL back then.

reckoning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-18-2006, 11:54 PM
  #58
pappyline
Registered User
 
pappyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mass/formerly Ont
Country: United States
Posts: 4,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
I tried to do a little research on those two guys. They both won their Calders when they were in their mid-20s, so they wouldn`t have as many years ahead of them as someone who won it at 19 or 20.
MacDonald joined the Army in 1943 and served as a private in the Canadian Military Staff Clerks. For whatever reason, when he resumed his career he often suffered from illness and couldn`t get back on track.
With Gelineau, the Bruins simply decided to go with Sugar Jim Henry as their goalie. Back in those days there were no backup goalies, the starters were expected to play the full season unless they injured. There were only 6 spots in the NHL, in `51-`52 they belonged to Sawchuk, Rayner, Lumely, Rollins, MacNeil and Henry. Hard to crack that group. Gelineau may very well have been the 7th best goalie in the game then, but that wouldn`t keep your job in the NHL back then.
Larry Regan was similiar. won the calder in the 6 team NHL at age 27 and lasted a few years as a role player when most guys were finished by their early 30's.

pappyline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2006, 12:35 AM
  #59
GSK*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uzbekistan
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 2,909
vCash: 500
I think its hard to juge a guy before 1960, for me, I know those player, but i didnt see them play without highlight or old NHL game.

After 1960, I think all those player have get a great career, Kent Douglas was not getting the better NHL career switch to AHL a lot of time, but he did well on stats for a defence in those years. So in the past 70, I would say Jackman, everybody else are ahead of him, he's near of Raycroft, I know Jackman was not on the best team past two seasons, but at this point, you can even compare him to the other.

GSK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2006, 01:54 AM
  #60
EmersonBeatemEtem
Watcha gonna do!!!!
 
EmersonBeatemEtem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hollywood, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 623
vCash: 500
Ovechkin. Only because I'm biased because Crosby didnt win. Ovechikin wasnt a true rookie in my opinion

EmersonBeatemEtem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2006, 03:36 AM
  #61
in the hall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by marillion-fan View Post
Ovechkin. Only because I'm biased because Crosby didnt win. Ovechikin wasnt a true rookie in my opinion
LOL

yeah, you're not a pens fan.. how was ovechkin not a true rookie?

in the hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2006, 05:33 AM
  #62
EmersonBeatemEtem
Watcha gonna do!!!!
 
EmersonBeatemEtem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hollywood, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
LOL

yeah, you're not a pens fan.. how was ovechkin not a true rookie?
Because of the lockout. He had a year's more experience than Crosby

EmersonBeatemEtem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2006, 05:45 AM
  #63
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,380
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Alessandro Seren Rosso Send a message via MSN to Alessandro Seren Rosso
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Sergei Makarov.


Have you ever seen him play?

I think he was one of the best players ever. Sure i suffer of russians/soviets bias but............................................... .......................................

__________________
Алексей Черепанов навсегда в наших сердцах
Alessandro Seren Rosso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2006, 09:17 AM
  #64
Sens4Cup
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by marillion-fan View Post
Because of the lockout. He had a year's more experience than Crosby
Well very few players play the year they get drafted. Guys like Crosby or Staal are the exception but for the most part the guys who win the Calder are 20-24(Raycroft, Jackman, Heatley, Nabokov, Drury, Alfredsson, Forsberg etc.).

So boo hoo Crosby didn't win. It doesn't matter. I mean Raycroft won in 2004 and he still got shipped out, and to the Leafs!

Sens4Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2006, 09:16 AM
  #65
Darz
Registered User
 
Darz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Where's the ANY key?
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidhander View Post


Have you ever seen him play?

I think he was one of the best players ever. Sure i suffer of russians/soviets bias but............................................... .......................................

I am just going by his NHL career. There is no doubt that he was a great hockey player.

__________________
Hey look, it's Duffman; the guy in a costume that creates awareness of Duff!
Darz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2006, 10:14 AM
  #66
CheeseSandwich*
 
CheeseSandwich*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gloucester
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
Raycroft

CheeseSandwich* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2006, 10:48 AM
  #67
blue dave
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas TX
Country: United States
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to blue dave Send a message via Yahoo to blue dave
I think its too early to call Raycroft horrible. Yes his sophmore season was bad but he's only been here for 2 seasons. Lets give the guy a little time to either prove he is bad or play like he did during his calder campaign.

blue dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2006, 11:31 AM
  #68
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,790
vCash: 500
I think this season will go a long ways to establishing Raycroft's legacy. Is he a goalie who sort of came out of nowhere to win the Calder, but then faded once shooter's got a book on him? (It's happened to a lot of goalies). Even before he was injured this past season, he was struggling. Was he a by product of the larger equipment? The system in front of him? Was his Calder victory tied to the fact that he was 24 during the season and much more polished than most rookies? Was it reflective of a weak rookie class, at least among those 21 or 22? Or will he adjust his game to the new equipment size, to the scouting reports that teams now have on him, and play to the level that we saw in 2003-04?

If you watched Jackman play in 2002-03, there would be little doubt about his Calder qualifications. The guy was terrific that season for St. Louis. He played a rock-solid defensive game while making smart decisions with the puck, and not backing down physically. MacInnis was their MVP, no doubt about that. (A good case could have been made for MacInnis receiving the Hart Trophy that year). But Jackman often played well over 20 minutes per game at a very high level. Keep in mind that Zetterberg spent the first half of the season adjusting to the NHL game, and was often a fourth liner; while Nash and Bouwmeester were playing months after they'd been drafted. In terms of who played the best in his rookie season, Jackman deserved the award in 2003.

God Bless Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2006, 05:55 PM
  #69
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
If you watched Jackman play in 2002-03, there would be little doubt about his Calder qualifications. The guy was terrific that season for St. Louis. He played a rock-solid defensive game while making smart decisions with the puck, and not backing down physically. MacInnis was their MVP, no doubt about that. (A good case could have been made for MacInnis receiving the Hart Trophy that year). But Jackman often played well over 20 minutes per game at a very high level. Keep in mind that Zetterberg spent the first half of the season adjusting to the NHL game, and was often a fourth liner; while Nash and Bouwmeester were playing months after they'd been drafted. In terms of who played the best in his rookie season, Jackman deserved the award in 2003.
Agreed. I'll take Jackman on my team any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Injuries have slowed his development, but I still feel he has the potential to be a top pairing d-man in the NHL.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2006, 01:40 AM
  #70
trenton1
Paille Good
 
trenton1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Loge 31 Row 10
Country: Belize
Posts: 6,647
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Ryder or Bergeron would have been better choices. Ryder for scoring 65 pts and Bergeron for having an impact as an 18 year old.

Strangely enough, as soon as Bergeron was heating up on the scoresheet that February/March he missed about 12 games with a shoulder injury after going full bore into I think Zdeno Chara, might've been Eric Cairns though (some gargantuan player he didn't need to go full bore at as an 18 year old kid, but did anyway because he was fearless). Kid managed to actually get a good piece of Chara or Cairns, but his shoulder just couldn't take the brunt of hitting a wall like that. If Bergeron played those 12 games he likely takes that 2004 Calder, IMO.

trenton1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2006, 09:18 AM
  #71
edd1e
Registered User
 
edd1e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,992
vCash: 500
Easily Selšnne!

edd1e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2006, 03:59 AM
  #72
FoppaArGud
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PHILLY
Country: United States
Posts: 395
vCash: 500
well, i guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by #21 View Post
This isn't really a bust by any means but wasn't Selanne's rookie season his best by far?
selanne scored 76 goals or something crazy like that and hasnt done it again but he is over a thousand points and closing in on 500 goals; he has quietly had a HOF caliber career in the NHL in addition to carrying Finnish hockey until very recently on the international stage.

Makarov came over with Fetisov and Larionov; he did not have the careers they did although it's not really fair to put a 31 year old who had already had a great career in Russia on the list with guys like Bryan Berard has not been all that he was made out to be and I dont think it's because of the accident although that was certainly a major setback.

Eric Vail had one 30-goal season apart from his rookie year and a couple of 25ish ones; not exactly dynamite but not a bust either, I guess. Plett was another Flame to win it and not make much noise.

We'll see on Raycroft, I think he can rebound.

FoppaArGud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2006, 09:51 PM
  #73
DungeonK
Love Thy Neighbor
 
DungeonK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 5,617
vCash: 500
Blah, calling out Jackman is retarded, he looked like he had been in the league a decade his rookie season. Just another sign that a defenseman that focuses on defense is totally out of style...

DungeonK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2006, 03:09 PM
  #74
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,813
vCash: 500
I was about to say Derek Plante, only to remember that he just WASN'T a ROTY on his rookie year. On that year it was Martin Brodeur.

20 years from, someone will probably come up and realise that Andrew Raycroft was the worst choice ever for the ROTY : it was the Deadpuck Era and Raycroft posted stats that were above average for a goalie on this year (playing behind the... 4th best team overall didn't hurt, either) , but Ryder was 2nd on his team for points (and 1st among rookies), and Patrice Bergeron displayed a extremely balanced overall games and posted some very good stats offensively....

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2006, 03:11 PM
  #75
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trenton1 View Post
Strangely enough, as soon as Bergeron was heating up on the scoresheet that February/March he missed about 12 games with a shoulder injury after going full bore into I think Zdeno Chara, might've been Eric Cairns though (some gargantuan player he didn't need to go full bore at as an 18 year old kid, but did anyway because he was fearless). Kid managed to actually get a good piece of Chara or Cairns, but his shoulder just couldn't take the brunt of hitting a wall like that. If Bergeron played those 12 games he likely takes that 2004 Calder, IMO.
I think he was behind Ryder in points for the whole season, but I agree on your point that he was, AT LEAST, more deserving than Raycroft.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.