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The NorthWest division has the top 5 goaltenders in the League.

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Old
08-11-2006, 11:29 AM
  #26
trbr86
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I am very interested as to whether Manny Fernandez will continue to perform to his standard this season. Since last year, Minnesota has thankfully departed their defense first strategy. Their top-six forwards have had a makeover into dangerous offensive lines, as well their defensive corps have taken a step backwards with the departure of Mitchell and Kuba and subsequent replacements of Carney and Jonsson. Unless Jacques Lemaire works some magic, I think Emanuel will be seeing a lot more rubber this season.

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08-11-2006, 01:26 PM
  #27
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Kipper vs Rolli

Kipper plays behind the best defense in the NHL, I dont think anyone would disagree with that.
SJ got rid of him because he looking like he was going to be the 3rd string goalie. I'm not going to trash Rolli and Praise Kipper when essentially it looks like their situations are very similar. How would Kipper be if he played on an average defensive team? Well we seen how he was in SJ. Not bad, but not great either.

Rolli has consistenly been a leader in save % in the NHL. That was in Minnesota with the trap. Can that be duplicated with the run and gun hockey the Oilers play? Probably not.

Does he have to be that goalie in order for the Oilers to win...probably not with the offense the Oilers have.
These are two similar goalies playing in different systems. We've seen what each could do when playing under different systems. (kipper in SJ an Rolli in Minnesota)
Look no further than when assesing the two.

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08-11-2006, 01:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by natural420 View Post
the only goalies even worth mentioning at this point are kiprusoff and luongo, theodore if he has a good season could be regarded at the same point he was a few years ago. roloson, never. fernandez needs to have a couple stellar seasons to even be considered top 5. both goalies in my mind arent even top 10 in the league.

in no particular order, just better then fernandez/roloson

kiprusoff
luongo
brodeur
lundquist
huet
miller
turco
theodore
vokoun
ward maybe
hell, a healthy hasek is still better. well maybe not.
I found this pretty funny

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08-11-2006, 09:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by PuckNut View Post
Until Turco proves he can stop a puck in the playoffs, I'm gonna have to disagree with you.
Which one of those NW goalies are better than Turco? Roloson? wow

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08-11-2006, 09:19 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Kipper plays behind the best defense in the NHL, I dont think anyone would disagree with that.
SJ got rid of him because he looking like he was going to be the 3rd string goalie. I'm not going to trash Rolli and Praise Kipper when essentially it looks like their situations are very similar. How would Kipper be if he played on an average defensive team? Well we seen how he was in SJ. Not bad, but not great either.

Rolli has consistenly been a leader in save % in the NHL. That was in Minnesota with the trap. Can that be duplicated with the run and gun hockey the Oilers play? Probably not.

Does he have to be that goalie in order for the Oilers to win...probably not with the offense the Oilers have.
These are two similar goalies playing in different systems. We've seen what each could do when playing under different systems. (kipper in SJ an Rolli in Minnesota)
Look no further than when assesing the two.

Are you kidding me? There is not a GM in the league that would trade Kipper for Rollison and 3 1st round draft picks. They're not even close. One of them holds the modern day NHL record for GAA, has been nominated for 2 Vezinas and won 1 of them. Has led the leage 2 times in GAA has a save % around .930 over the last 2 seasons and has lead the league in shut-outs. The other guy hasn't even been an established #1 starting goalie until the Oilers gave him a shot at 37 years old.

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08-11-2006, 09:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Kowalchuk View Post
I found this pretty funny

ugh. here we go. fernandez needs to prove himself because he has been in the league and has had some rough spots. get it?? same with roloson. huet, miller, and ward at this point are better goalies in my mind, after having great SEASONS last year, and with exvception to huet, also had great playoffs. roloson only had the playoffs and was really nothing special all year. he has had some shakey seasons so one playoffs makes up for it??. this is simple iam not oiler hating this is just my opinion. suck it up and read it for what iam really saying, not how you want to hear it so you can whine about it.

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08-11-2006, 09:42 PM
  #32
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Fernandez is real good.

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08-11-2006, 09:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jopule Harrfis View Post
And how many stellar seasons have all of the goalies mentioned here had? Fernandez has been a consistent goaltender in a defensively-minded system for several years. Is he a Top 5 goalie? Likely not. But you can't say he needs stellar seasons, and then say he's worse than 4 goalies who've had 1 good season each (if that... Ward was a playoff phenomenon).
this is how you respond and get some credibility. thank you. no whining=some productive talk.
i admit i may have overshot.exagerated even, but i still think the three names i mentioned are better then roloson at this point, maybe i contradicted myself a bit, but my initial opinion dosent change. the three names mentioned have a bright future ahead of them, while i think roloson missed his chance.

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08-11-2006, 09:52 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Shaynsaw View Post
Your basing you assumptions on huet and ward on how good they were when they last played but you won't give Roloson the same respect. Why cant you just say Roloson was great the last time he played as a full time number one goalie in the playoffs. As did Huet and Ward. Just cause they are younger they dont have to prove they can do it for a whole season.

I think you just have a hate for the Oilers, if Huet, or Ward were on the Oilers you would be saying they were one hit wonders like Raycroft

PS. This will be an interseting thread to revisit 30 games into the season.
you think wrong my friend. iam not hating on the oilers, i would have said this a couple years ago about roloson when he was on minesota. please dont just call me an oiler hater to further your point. its true, but i try not to base my opinions on my dislike for the oilers. i respect the oilers fans that do the same.

the only reason i put the other three ahead of roloson, is because they had great seasons as well and phenominal playoffs. (except huet, but who can deny this guys talent) roloson wasnt anything special during the season except for a couple bright spots at the end of the year.

you want me to admit roloson had a great playoffs??. no problem he undeniably did, not once have i said his playoffs were a fluke, (nor have i said anything about the oilers fluking either) roloson has had an up and down career and i dont think is one of the top 10 goaliess in the league when you consider everything.

i know i repeated myself in a couple of my posts, i just wanted to respond to all my "critics"

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08-11-2006, 10:11 PM
  #35
AVE MAN
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Originally Posted by ryz View Post
Are you kidding me? There is not a GM in the league that would trade Kipper for Rollison and 3 1st round draft picks. They're not even close. One of them holds the modern day NHL record for GAA, has been nominated for 2 Vezinas and won 1 of them. Has led the leage 2 times in GAA has a save % around .930 over the last 2 seasons and has lead the league in shut-outs. The other guy hasn't even been an established #1 starting goalie until the Oilers gave him a shot at 37 years old.
Well no kidding, nobody is arguing about trade value. But that has to do with age. I'm by no means saying that Rolli is better than Kipper, i'm just saying in terms of stats and career path, these guys are very similar.

Lets talk facts:
Most would say Roloson held the #1 job in Minnesota before last season, but lets say your right and he only split time. Assume he was 1A. Your statement is nobody gave him a shot to be the #1 before the Oilers. O.K so who gave Kipper a shot to be the #1 before Calgary? Niether one was given an opportunityto be #1 before playing for their current teams, so that argument is a wash.

Both were traded to their current teams for draft picks. I believe Rolli was traded for a #1, and Kipper was a #2.

Lets look at Stats:
Rolli
2001-02 2.68 .901
2002-03 2.00 .927
2003-04 1.88 .933
2005-06 2.71 .907 (carried his team to the Stanley Cup Final)

Kipper
2001-02 2.48 .915
2002-03 3.25 .879
2003-04 1.70 .933 (carried his team to the Stanley Cup Final)
2005-06 2.07 .923

One plays for one of the best Defensive trap teams in the leaque(Kipper) and the other plays on a offensive run and gun style team (Rolli).

Who is going to have better stats next season, no doubt about it, Kipper. Calgary is going to score less goals so I quess he'll have to be better.
When Roli was in Minnesota his stats, much like Kippers stats(in Calgary) were inflated. When Kipper played on SJ, he didn't look as good due to the style SJ played.

So my point is, I've heard a lot of Flames fans Rip Oiler goaltending, but next time you do that, look at the above situation and stats.

However the most important stat to look at next season that will be wins. Who will have more? Now thats an argument you could have with Oiler fans.

Who will finish higher in the standings next season is the real question.

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Old
08-11-2006, 11:19 PM
  #36
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you have some good points, but even with thse stats its no comparison. roloson was an established goaltender during those years, nobody even knew who kiprusoff was before 03/04

this isnt just calgary fans ripping on edmonton, how hard that might be for some people to believe, maybe some of us actually do think roloson isnt a top tire goaltender. it always seems that nobody from calgary here can say anything but, praise edmonton without getting these "you just oiler hating" responses, it gets a little frustrating sometimes considering iam trying to be objective when talking about the oilers. i could say alot of good things about the players too, and alot of the time most of us do.

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08-11-2006, 11:33 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by natural420 View Post
ugh. here we go. fernandez needs to prove himself because he has been in the league and has had some rough spots. get it?? same with roloson. huet, miller, and ward at this point are better goalies in my mind, after having great SEASONS last year, and with exvception to huet, also had great playoffs. roloson only had the playoffs and was really nothing special all year. he has had some shakey seasons so one playoffs makes up for it??. this is simple iam not oiler hating this is just my opinion. suck it up and read it for what iam really saying, not how you want to hear it so you can whine about it.
how did cam ward have a great season? 28 games 3.68 GAA .882 SV%. That's a great season? Roloson's season was 2.73 GAA .908 SV%, which is average imo, but still obviously better than Ward's "great" season. And the years before that? Last NHL season before the most recent one 1.88GAA .933 SV%, and the year before that one 2.00GAA .927SV%. So in the last 3 NHL years: 2 impressive seasons, 1 average season, 1 impressive playoff. And by your logic that track record is < than Ward's poor season and impressive playoff. No offense, but you don't make any sense.

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Old
08-12-2006, 01:34 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan View Post
Either that or if one of the Flames young guns (Lombardi, Lundmark, Kobasew) step up their game to the next level...it will have the same effect.

Iginla, Tanguay, Langkow, Huselius is a solid top 4 in the league IMO. The last 2 offensive spots can be filled with Kobasew, Amonte, Friesen...or if Lundmkar/Lombardi hit the next level one of them.
Huselius may be a top 4 on the Flames but thats about it....he isn't even top 6 on the Oilers. The guy has never scored more than 50 points in his career and he is on the verge of turning 28. Suggesting he is a solid top 4 in the League is way off base IMO.

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08-12-2006, 04:50 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
One plays for one of the best Defensive trap teams in the leaque(Kipper) and the other plays on a offensive run and gun style team (Rolli).

When Roli was in Minnesota his stats, much like Kippers stats(in Calgary) were inflated. When Kipper played on SJ, he didn't look as good due to the style SJ played..
Didn't Roloson struggle when he first started as an Oiler? I thought that the Oilers would become a legit playoff threat when they picked him up, but I certainly didn't think that when I looked back at his regular season preformance with your team. Despite struggling, Roloson's save percentage was almost the same with Edmonton and Minnesota (half a percent difference) and his GAA was far better. It's so easy to downgrade the role Edmonton's defense had but they were the best team at blocking shots last season, allowing the least amount of shots against in the entire league. Inflated stats indeed...

When it boils down to it, Roloson is in the last couple years of his career but has a few good seasons left in him. Kipprusoff just entered his prime and has another decade left in his career, barring injury of course. One is a good goaltender, potential top ten material, one is the best over the last two seasons. Roloson should do a good job for the Oilers next season but I do believe he will struggle at some point, much like last season.

Quote:
However the most important stat to look at next season that will be wins. Who will have more? Now thats an argument you could have with Oiler fans.

Who will finish higher in the standings next season is the real question.
Unless the Flames get really unlucky with injuries and the Oilers get less man games lost than Tampa Bay in 03/04 it'll go to Calgary. I know I'm going out on a limb here but I like risky bets.


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08-12-2006, 10:21 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Lets look at Stats:
Rolli
2001-02 2.68 .901
2002-03 2.00 .927
2003-04 1.88 .933
2005-06 2.71 .907 (carried his team to the Stanley Cup Final)

Kipper
2001-02 2.48 .915
2002-03 3.25 .879
Not an stablished NHL goalie
2003-04 1.70 .933 (carried his team to the Stanley Cup Final)
2005-06 2.07 .923
Slap wins (or winning %), minutes played and shots against up there then come back to me.

Also, it's true that Kipper plays with one of the best defences in the league but he also plays with one of the worst offences. Kipprusoff has ZERO margin for error on a night to night basis and he seems to play under that pretty well don't you think. You are dreaming if you think Rollison is comparable to Kipper in any way, except that they are both goaltenders.

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08-12-2006, 02:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
he had to have won some big games he's played in if he won a memorial cup title and went to overtie of game 7 in the OHL championship the following season
Ya and since when do stats in Jr. count for anything in an NHL career?

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Old
08-12-2006, 06:51 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by oilersrule14 View Post
how did cam ward have a great season? 28 games 3.68 GAA .882 SV%. That's a great season? Roloson's season was 2.73 GAA .908 SV%, which is average imo, but still obviously better than Ward's "great" season. And the years before that? Last NHL season before the most recent one 1.88GAA .933 SV%, and the year before that one 2.00GAA .927SV%. So in the last 3 NHL years: 2 impressive seasons, 1 average season, 1 impressive playoff. And by your logic that track record is < than Ward's poor season and impressive playoff. No offense, but you don't make any sense.

did i not say in my intial post that i guess forced all this critism and whining that "ward (maybe)", which means i wasnt sure if ward was better or not. i left room for error so dont get on my case about ward. ward didnt play much in the season and if he had iam sure would have had much better numbers then he had
we'll see who has the better season and where roloson ranks, and not after 30 games, after 82, if bergeron dosent take him out again.

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08-12-2006, 07:08 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by natural420 View Post
roloson was an established goaltender during those years, nobody even knew who kiprusoff was before 03/04
O.K so both you and Ryz are saying that the stats are not really fair because Kipper, although he's 30 in October, did not established himself till 2003/4.

So by that argument is it fair to put Kipper ahead of some of the other NW goalies that have put together more than 2 seasons of good play? Some of them aka Theodore, are also sporting Vezina's. Is Kipper better than Theodore? I think all of this "Kipper is KING" talk should be put on hold until he puts together more than 2 good seasons. Thats only 1 more good year than Raycroft, and the Bruins had a hard time giving him away.

Let's not forget that only 3 NHL seasons ago, he was a third string goaltender on the Sharks (a team that didn't play the trap). Now don't get me wrong I like Kipper and feel without him last season Calgary wouldn't have made the playoffs. My argument is the same as the author of this threads, the NW goalies are pretty dam good, including Rolli, including Theodore, including Kipper. Yes you can pick them apart and draw negatives from all of them but overall this division is very well goaltended.


Last edited by AVE MAN: 08-12-2006 at 07:14 PM.
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08-12-2006, 07:24 PM
  #44
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Huselius may be a top 4 on the Flames but thats about it....he isn't even top 6 on the Oilers. The guy has never scored more than 50 points in his career and he is on the verge of turning 28. Suggesting he is a solid top 4 in the League is way off base IMO.
Hey man, you just described Horcoff last year.

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08-12-2006, 07:48 PM
  #45
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So by that argument is it fair to put Kipper ahead of some of the other NW goalies that have put together more than 2 seasons of good play? Some of them aka Theodore, are also sporting Vezina's. Is Kipper better than Theodore?
Yes, Kipprusoff is far better than Theodore. Theodore had one season where he earned the Vezina and the Hart trophy, since then he hasn't been a top 5 calibre goaltender. Kipprusoff has a Hart nomination, a Vezina award and an additional nomination, a Jenning's trophy and the modern GAA record. All accomplished in the time span since Theodore had his last good season.

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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Thats only 1 more good year than Raycroft, and the Bruins had a hard time giving him away.
Theodore had one more good season than Raycroft too, and the Canadiens had a really difficult time giving him away. Hardly convincing.

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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Let's not forget that only 3 NHL seasons ago, he was a third string goaltender on the Sharks (a team that didn't play the trap).
Let's not forget it's been three seasons since Theodore won the Vezina and actually had a "top 10" season. Kipprusoff by contrast has had two top 3 seasons in a row. Three seasons ago is a terrible argument, especially considering that it requires a player show consistancy for two seasons (not including his preformance in the SEL) for it to be valid.

What next? Kipprusoff will become a three year wonder after this season?

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08-12-2006, 07:55 PM
  #46
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Vancouver and Calgary with the league's best two netminders.

For over a quarter century you would've been laughed out of town for even suggesting it might be true someday.

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08-12-2006, 09:48 PM
  #47
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Marty Brodeur!

Giggy was a MVP who deserved it until he got to the finals (MB 3 shutouts in a 7 game series) and was robbed!
Mikka is good but needs hardware to prove himself
Luongo as well They may both get a chance to prove it this year

Cloutier, please! Good goalie but not in the same company as above
Rolloson had a great year but he needs to string along a couple of them, and he's not that young.
And don't get me started on that punk from Carolina! Ward was by no way the MVP, I don't even like Brind'Amour and he absolutely lead the team all season, and was robbed too. Ward is in no way in the same company as any of the above

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08-12-2006, 10:15 PM
  #48
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Kipper>Fernandez>Luongo>Theodore>Roloson

That's how i see things ending up in the net and in the standings.

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08-12-2006, 11:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by natural420 View Post
you think wrong my friend. iam not hating on the oilers, i would have said this a couple years ago about roloson when he was on minesota. please dont just call me an oiler hater to further your point. its true, but i try not to base my opinions on my dislike for the oilers. i respect the oilers fans that do the same.

the only reason i put the other three ahead of roloson, is because they had great seasons as well and phenominal playoffs. (except huet, but who can deny this guys talent) roloson wasnt anything special during the season except for a couple bright spots at the end of the year.

you want me to admit roloson had a great playoffs??. no problem he undeniably did, not once have i said his playoffs were a fluke, (nor have i said anything about the oilers fluking either) roloson has had an up and down career and i dont think is one of the top 10 goaliess in the league when you consider everything.

i know i repeated myself in a couple of my posts, i just wanted to respond to all my "critics"
Is this the same Cam Ward who has only played 28 regular season games in the NHL with a 3.68GAA? Huet also has not had a 40 game season in the NHL. Better wait and give them one more year to put them on your list. I don't think Roli should be in the top ten right now either I am just questioning your reasoning for putting Ward on the list when Roli did pretty much the same thing last year. Played a small amount of games during the year then took over in the playoffs and played well. I would even argue that Roli played more consistent in the playoffs than Ward. Ward was pulled from games mutiple times in the playoffs, Roli never let a game get out of hand to the point he had to be pulled.

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08-13-2006, 03:39 AM
  #50
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Hey man, you just described Horcoff last year.
A couple of differences, besides the obvious one about the position they play.
Horcoff has progressed offensively each year he has played in the NHL and is seriously out pointing Huselius at approx the same point in his career. He is about 15 lbs heavier than Huselius and plays a much more physical game. Horcoff is also a much better defensive player and plays his minutes (very successfully I might add) against the top players in the league.
Virtually the same amount of time spent in the NHL for each player (they are the same age) and there is no question about which player has progressed further.
Horcoff simply brings much more to his team.

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