HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

How good would the Bure, Mogilny, Fedorov Line have been?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-12-2006, 08:37 PM
  #26
Heat McManus
Registered User
 
Heat McManus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321 View Post
2\3 of it almost did happen. Detroit wanted to take Bure, but the league told them he wasn't eligable for some reason. Later on in the draft, the league came back and changed their mind, but Vancouver took him a few spots ahead of Detroit's next pick.
THe name of the guy on Detroit's staff who was told by the NHL he wasn't eligible: Neil Smith.

Heat McManus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2006, 09:15 PM
  #27
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
wow, never heard that. imagine detroit's 89 draft if they had picked bure.
lidstrom
fedorov
bure
konstantinov

Not necessarily. You have to figure that if they were going to select Bure earlier, they would have likely missed one of the other three (say they wanted to pick Bure, were told no, and picked Federov. If they weren't told no, they would have picked Bure with that pick, and Federov would have probably been gone before they could pick again).

smoneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-12-2006, 11:58 PM
  #28
Heat McManus
Registered User
 
Heat McManus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,407
vCash: 500
Detroit was going to pick Bure after they had picked Fedorov. They picked Shawn McCosh instead. Konstantinov wasn't till the 11th rd, so he probably would have been picked as well. So, it is a very likely scenario that they could have had all four.

Heat McManus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 03:16 AM
  #29
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321 View Post
2\3 of it almost did happen. Detroit wanted to take Bure, but the league told them he wasn't eligable for some reason. Later on in the draft, the league came back and changed their mind, but Vancouver took him a few spots ahead of Detroit's next pick.
They didn't changed they're mind. Brian Burke provided documented evidence that he Bure was eligable. (Back in '89, Brian Burke was assistant GM of the Canucks.)

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 05:07 AM
  #30
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321 View Post
2\3 of it almost did happen. Detroit wanted to take Bure, but the league told them he wasn't eligable for some reason. Later on in the draft, the league came back and changed their mind, but Vancouver took him a few spots ahead of Detroit's next pick.
Actually Detroit only thought Bure wasn't eligable so they didn't think they could draft him. Then Vancouver drafts him and the room became a mess, Brian Burke however was able to provide documents that showed Bure was indeed eligable but to this day this remains very debatable.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 05:15 AM
  #31
Mogo
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Mogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,537
vCash: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by beba91 View Post
And Fedorov passes first shoots second
So does Mogilny

Mogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 05:16 AM
  #32
Reload
Registered User
 
Reload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XploD View Post
Actually Detroit only thought Bure wasn't eligable so they didn't think they could draft him. Then Vancouver drafts him and the room became a mess, Brian Burke however was able to provide documents that showed Bure was indeed eligable but to this day this remains very debatable.

Wasn't it a certain amount of games played thing, and Burke had to provide game sheets of Bure's extra games played? If I recall correctly the reason its debatable is because he was on the bottom of all the game sheets that were provided by Burke.

Reload is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 05:56 AM
  #33
Kimi
Registered User
 
Kimi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Country: England
Posts: 3,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
So does Mogilny
No reason for him to switch it up if they were playing together. They all great players who would are/were able to pass and shoot at an elite level.

Kimi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 06:44 AM
  #34
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reload View Post
Wasn't it a certain amount of games played thing, and Burke had to provide game sheets of Bure's extra games played? If I recall correctly the reason its debatable is because he was on the bottom of all the game sheets that were provided by Burke.
Yeah it was. I think he had to have played 11 games in each of 2 seasons with his Russian club before being eligable. The official documents that were available said that he'd played only 5 games in one of these 2 seasons but Burke happened to find some documents that said he'd played 11 games. Many still believe that it was in fact an "illegal" draft.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 11:04 AM
  #35
norrisnick
Registered User
 
norrisnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,235
vCash: 500
Plus wasn't it Larionov, who was coming over that year, that provided those documents? For some reason I think he was involved.

norrisnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 11:09 AM
  #36
Heat McManus
Registered User
 
Heat McManus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Plus wasn't it Larionov, who was coming over that year, that provided those documents? For some reason I think he was involved.
According to the book "The Riddle Of the Russian Rocket" (I think that's the name), it is disputed whether or not it was Larionov or Igor Kuperman (Russian journalist) who provided the evidence that Bure played more than the required number of games. Kuperman actually had on file two more games than the Canucks gave the NHL in their argument.

Heat McManus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-13-2006, 07:21 PM
  #37
tape-2-tape
Registered User
 
tape-2-tape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NH
Country: United States
Posts: 573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi View Post
I don't think there's a line in the NHL right now that would have anything on these three in there primes.

That's a pretty good assessment and in there primes as a line, they'd be one of the most pure naturally talented line combo's ever in any era IMO. They all clearly knew thier defensive assignments as well.

tape-2-tape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-15-2006, 06:28 AM
  #38
espo*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,455
vCash: 500
They would have been a great line.I'm not sure they would have been better then the KLM line though.

espo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-15-2006, 10:00 AM
  #39
mr gib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian_fanatic View Post
Bure was strong with his defensive play up until things started getting ugly in Van City. Ever since then he was always a cherry pickers.
good point - bure and mogilny in vancouver didn't work

mr gib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-15-2006, 10:27 AM
  #40
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian_fanatic View Post
Bure was strong with his defensive play up until things started getting ugly in Van City. Ever since then he was always a cherry pickers.
Or around the time his knee started to give in.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-15-2006, 10:52 AM
  #41
mr gib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XploD View Post
Or around the time his knee started to give in.
what happened to pavel was he demanded a trade and the canucks didn't move fast enuff and he shut it down

mr gib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-15-2006, 09:16 PM
  #42
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib View Post
what happened to pavel was he demanded a trade and the canucks didn't move fast enuff and he shut it down
Still managed 51 goals. Anyways, things started to get ugly in Vancouver around the time after his first knee injury and I think the defensive play has more to do with the latter since it kept on being a non factor in his game even after the trade.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-15-2006, 09:30 PM
  #43
mr gib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XploD View Post
Still managed 51 goals. Anyways, things started to get ugly in Vancouver around the time after his first knee injury and I think the defensive play has more to do with the latter since it kept on being a non factor in his game even after the trade.
sure but the poaching got on everyone's nerves - ie why do we have to back check if pavel... ?

mr gib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-15-2006, 09:52 PM
  #44
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib View Post
sure but the poaching got on everyone's nerves - ie why do we have to back check if pavel... ?
Maybe I'm just tired but I'm not really sure what we're discussing right now. I don't think Fedorov and Mogilny would stop back checking just because Bure doesn't due to his knee problems (as it most likely was even though I wouldn't consider him having a good defensive factor in his game even before that, he just wasn't that type of player). Fact is that whenever this line was playing together they were pretty much out of this world.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2006, 04:32 AM
  #45
mattihp
Registered User
 
mattihp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Årsta
Country: Finland
Posts: 14,556
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Mogilny is actually surprisingly good defensively. Not selke good. but he does back check.

Bure plays defence by cherry picking so much that opposing d-men can't pinch from the point.
Mogilny is pretty much as good as Selänne is defensively. Can be a good help for the d-men, and with a selke-kinda guy in Fedorov in the middle... That line would be pretty good defensively, even if the d-men would be only slightly above average.

mattihp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2006, 05:16 AM
  #46
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
Mogilny is pretty much as good as Selänne is defensively. Can be a good help for the d-men, and with a selke-kinda guy in Fedorov in the middle... That line would be pretty good defensively, even if the d-men would be only slightly above average.
For sure. Not that they'd really have to be since when these guys come out it's pretty usless for the other team to think offense.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2006, 01:02 PM
  #47
Heat McManus
Registered User
 
Heat McManus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XploD View Post
For sure. Not that they'd really have to be since when these guys come out it's pretty usless for the other team to think offense.
Good point. The other team can't score when you've got the puck. The best defense is a good offense.....Or something like that.

Heat McManus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2006, 03:11 PM
  #48
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,671
vCash: 500
Not sure that applies here as the line is very much about scoring off the rush rather than puck control. So a good scoring line could make it a very back and forth game.

Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2006, 05:14 PM
  #49
XploD
Registered User
 
XploD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Not sure that applies here as the line is very much about scoring off the rush rather than puck control. So a good scoring line could make it a very back and forth game.
True. However, trying to race with these guys in a back and forth game is suicide.

XploD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2006, 05:34 PM
  #50
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,780
vCash: 500
If they're motivated, it would have been an incredibly difficult line to stop. The thing about all three players is they went through extended periods of time in their careers where they were seemingly "existing:" not living up to their vast potential, showing occasional glimpses of dominance, but as a whole, they could be frustrating.

Honestly, I think Bure was likely the least offensively gifted of the three. Strange to say, I know, but of the three, he had the most drive, and there are very few players who want to score goals more than Bure. His speed with the puck was unprecedented, but all that would have meant nothing without his desire to score goals. When he wanted to, there wasn't anything Bure couldn't do. He was smart enough and fast enough to be good in his own zone. He was strong enough to play physical. It's just he rarely did either of those two.

Mogilny likely had the most talent of the three. There wasn't anything offensive that the guy couldn't do. Didn't have Bure's speed with the puck, but his outright speed was better, and he was a better passer and shooter. Mogilny was also the one most prone to indifference. He was the one who was most guilty of overall apathy towards the game. After Lemieux retired, Mogilny might have been the most talented player in the game. Which made his lack of production even more frustrating.

Fedorov was likely the fastest skater of the three, and definitely the smartest. The best all-round player, too. But he's had only one 70-point season in the last decade. While Fedorov is much more than just points, his lack of production can be maddening. Of these three, he's the one who's the sure bet for the HHOF, but he's a guy we'll look back on and wish he'd done more.

All three were stoppable. You saw it time after time. Bure was stopped by Lowe, McTavish, Zhitnik, Chelios and Stevens. Not only could you shut Mogilny and Fedorov down with a strong defenceman/defensive forward, you had a good chance that they would take themselves out of a game or a series at some point.

If all three were motivated (which they would have been in their first couple seasons together), they would have been incredibly difficult to stop. It could be done with the right checking tandem, but it wouldn't be easy. Once the apathy/selfishness set in though, and it would have, given the temperment of all three players, their effectiveness would have been greatly diminished.

God Bless Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.