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Old
11-12-2003, 08:25 PM
  #1
Hab-a-maniac
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We are now

The 3rd worst offense in the league, you can look it up. And no, the teams who passed us tonight do not have games in hand. In terms of GPG, Chicago is the worst while we are just behind. They have something like 1.75 GPG while we have a horrid 1.9. You see, Calgary scored 6 tonight to up their avg. to somewhere above 2 as did Anaheim. Pretty much the only teams with a worse offense are Pittsburgh and Chicago. The Pens are only crappier by a hair and the Hawks by .10 of a goal, but this is inexcusable. Working on nothing but defense for almost the whole training camp was a mixed blessing.

We have limited shots, chances and goals by a huge margin although there's the occasional blowout. But looking at our best efforts, we've scored 5 goals just once, 4 goals twice, had three 3-goal games and a plethora of 2 and 1 goal games with 2 shutouts to match. EVERY team except lowly Pittsburgh and Chicago could possibly score a bunch in today's game. Look at all the 6-2 games tonight! And a 7-1 blowout by the Caps. Sure, we aren't the worst team per se but near the worst offense. But in my opinion we are the most pitiful offense in Habs history. With Koivu back, things SHOULD change, but that doesn't mean they will necessarily.

When we go into the attacking zone (which I think we're doing better this year), the same old ***** occurs. Waiting too long to pass, not passing when they should, getting outmuscled off the puck, stalling and putting the puck along an endless cycle, turning it over, shooting wide, missing open nets, missing passes, missing rebounds, shooting right into the goalie's chest/pads, not paying the price and standing in the slot, everyone standing there instead of moving, making bad passes or decisions all over. Pathetic. That said, let's get that offense going in long Isle tomorrow because they know how to score goals. Over a full goal more per game than us to be precise.

I look at other teams tonight and see youngster's excelling in Calgary (Lombardi), Chicago (McLean), Detroit (Datsyuk) and Washington (Semin) yet we still continue to trot out Audette and Perreault on the top two lines thinking someone's desperate enough to trade for them. Bench 'em or send 'em to the minors I don't care, just give their spots to deserving kids like Hossa, Higgins or Plekanec. The youth movement is off on a bad start because the cranky vets are holding them down.

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Old
11-13-2003, 02:00 AM
  #2
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Julien is a fool. I thought he was supposed to be a teacher and know how to handle young players but if the team we've been icing lately is any indication, he's doing a p*ss poor job at it all!

I don't believe anybody ever expected Michael Ryder to tear up the league in scoring but geez! The kid has been working his butt off since day one and what's he got to show for it? He's been constantly jerked around from line-to-line. Everytime he establishes any kind of rapport with another player, yank! He's taken off that line and put somewhere else. He finally gets another goal and what does his coach say - he needs to work on his defense and yank! he's demoted to the fourth line!

Then there's Hossa! Again, the kid has been working his tail off and his reward for that? Getting benched in favour of Yanick Perreault!

Really good way to give the few kids in our lineup any incentive to improve. If they show anything, they get demoted or benched! WTF is the matter with this amateur coach anyways?

Frankly, even with the load of crappy veterans this team has, the Canadiens could be doing alot better with a real professional coach - not some nerf from the AHL who is being rewarded for toiling in the system all these years.

No other team in the NHL would be playing Audette on its first two lines -in fact, I'm pretty certain that there are no teams that would be playing him anywhere! Same goes for Perreault and Ribeiro. Yeah, yeah, we have no other choice - they're the players we're saddled with? BS! We have a farm team loaded with young kids who would be, at their worst, a vast improvement over any or all three of these sad excuses!

If the Canadiens truly want to be taken seriously, they have to get serious! They're nowhere near that with this bush leaguer as coach and a bunch of useless players like Audette, Perreault and Ribeiro populating our laughable #1 and/or #2 lines!

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11-13-2003, 02:13 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadienne
He finally gets another goal and what does his coach say - he needs to work on his defense and yank! he's demoted to the fourth line!
Is this a joke? Where did you see he was going to play on the 4th line tonight?

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11-13-2003, 02:15 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Is this a joke? Where did you see he was going to play on the 4th line tonight?
Heard it on the local sportscast last night. And yeah, it is a joke! and a pretty lousy one if you ask me!

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11-13-2003, 03:03 AM
  #5
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Koivu will help, but he is going to take 4-5 more games to get going... that being said, some of the other guys are more than just snakebit, they just cannor finnish... and the longer it goes on the more the pressure mounts... it's a vicious circle, the only cure is a 5 or 6 goal game, where each line figures in the scoring and the top line produces big time, Zed really needs a 2 goal game to get some confidence going. That being said, when do we play Pittsburgh again?

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11-13-2003, 03:29 AM
  #6
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Our offensive stats are especially brutal when you consider that three game stretch at the start of the season where we scored 13 goals:

3 game stretch: 13 goals

Other 13 games: 18 goals

Pathetic.

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Old
11-13-2003, 04:15 AM
  #7
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Plain and simple, this team when everybody is 100% healthy is going to struggle to put up goals. We don't have many players who can score consistantly and the couple we do have haven't done it to this point yet. Bringing up every player from Hamilton isn't going to correct the problem. We really need to show a little patience.
A youth movement is underway. That doesn't occur by giftwrapping jobs to rookies who haven't earn the job yet. When a rookie proves to management that he is ready a position WILL open up. Higgins AIN'T ready, Plekanec AIN'T ready. That is why they are in Hamilton. If they were ready they would be here. And when a rookie gets here he isn't going to get 20:00 of icetime a night. He's going to learn, game by game. If that requires spending the odd game in the press box so be it. If that requires him to play with different linemates, so be it. I really don't understand why so many people think the smartest way to develop youth is to give them positions before they are ready and feed them to the tigers nightly with reckless abandonment. That is probablely the stupidest thing a team could possiblely do, yet so many scream for that to happen.

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11-13-2003, 06:42 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
I really don't understand why so many people think the smartest way to develop youth is to give them positions before they are ready and feed them to the tigers nightly with reckless abandonment. That is probablely the stupidest thing a team could possiblely do, yet so many scream for that to happen.
This is so true. Case in point, the TSN announced were almost grimacing in pain every time a highlight came from the Pitts game last night. At one point, Pierre McGuire was pleading for someone from Pitts' management to get Fleury out of there instead of having to face all those shots each night. How can this build the confidence of an 18 year old getting shell shocked each night? Letting in tons of goals because the team in front of you is so out of their league?

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Old
11-13-2003, 06:49 AM
  #9
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patience people, Perreault playing IMHO = showcasing for eventual trade. The people whine about Hossa being benched, but they also whine about perreault still being on the team. He has to be showcased if he is to be traded, because benching him for 2 straight is definatly not the way to give him value.

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11-13-2003, 12:04 PM
  #10
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There's a difference between whining (a la Joe Thornton) and criticising - as my post was intended.

I am not advocating that we turn the entire team over to rookies. All I am saying is, if they are here and out-performing veterans, then play them. If there are kids on the farm who are out-performing veterans on the big club, then bring them up.

If they do good, the team will benefit. If they don't, where's the harm? We're a lousy team to begin with so I can't see that we'd be any better off without than with them.

Fleury's situation in Pittsburgh is extreme; nothing like that is necessary here. If it wasn't for him, Pittsburgh wouldn't have won any games so far this season. There's no conditions like that here for any rookie so if they have trouble with the pressure, they can be platooned, rested or otherwise buffered from the tigers until they catch it by the tail.

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11-13-2003, 12:44 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadienne
Heard it on the local sportscast last night. And yeah, it is a joke! and a pretty lousy one if you ask me!
Agreed...I think Gainey will hire his own man to coach this team......Julien's moves have been very questionable, kind of reminds me of Therrien's player/roster management at times

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11-13-2003, 01:07 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by KOMO_ROCKS
Agreed...I think Gainey will hire his own man to coach this team......Julien's moves have been very questionable, kind of reminds me of Therrien's player/roster management at times
All I can say is... At least Julien HAS a system!!

And besides his use of Hainsey, I've yet to see proof that he's not willing to play the young guys. As for his roster management, Sundstrom didn't play well early in the season, he was scratched... same is happening to Audette now. Although there are some things I would've done different now and then but we all have different opinions when it comes to the line-up anyway.

The blowouts, the lack of offence, are growing pains. Once this team gets the system down consistantly, we'll be laughing.

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11-13-2003, 01:28 PM
  #13
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Before jumping to conclusions, you'd better check our goals against and shots against. At least it is mediocore and with the team that we have, it is all that we can really hope for.

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Old
11-13-2003, 01:45 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Higgins AIN'T ready, Plekanec AIN'T ready. That is why they are in Hamilton. If they were ready they would be here. And when a rookie gets here he isn't going to get 20:00 of icetime a night. He's going to learn, game by game. If that requires spending the odd game in the press box so be it. If that requires him to play with different linemates, so be it. I really don't understand why so many people think the smartest way to develop youth is to give them positions before they are ready and feed them to the tigers nightly with reckless abandonment. That is probablely the stupidest thing a team could possiblely do, yet so many scream for that to happen.
I disagree entirely.

I've been a major advocate for not handing positions to kids, but right now Hossa and Ryder have been two of Montreal's best forwards this season in terms of consistency and bringing strong fundamentals to the rink. They're being jerked around, played on different lines, Hossa sitting in the press box. This is what you do with a young player who is struggling but clearly learning; not a 'seasoned' rookie (as in, spent time in pros for a year or two prior) that is playing well. That's a way to ruin confidence, not improve it.

Ales Hemsky has six goals last year. He played alongside Moreau for the bulk of the season (see: stability for a rookie), then moved to the top line to fill in an injury and he looked fantastic there. That is how a rookie should be developed. Zetterberg received the same position in Detroit last year. Bergeron is working it now in Boston. The list goes on.

And why do you believe Plekanec and Higgins are not NHL ready? I'm not attacking your position, merely curious. I watched both closely in camp and they had outperformed most veterans. Higgins severely outplayed Staal in the rookie tournament (in terms of poise, maturity, skating and all around refined game). Yet we see Staal getting ice time alongside O'Neill in the NHL, and Higgins stuck in the AHL....

The problem I'm having right now is that each of these players [i]arep/i] NHL ready and they're not getting the ice because of ridiculous contracts to soft aging veterans that no other team wants.

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Old
11-13-2003, 05:20 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I disagree entirely.

I've been a major advocate for not handing positions to kids, but right now Hossa and Ryder have been two of Montreal's best forwards this season in terms of consistency and bringing strong fundamentals to the rink. They're being jerked around, played on different lines, Hossa sitting in the press box. This is what you do with a young player who is struggling but clearly learning; not a 'seasoned' rookie (as in, spent time in pros for a year or two prior) that is playing well. That's a way to ruin confidence, not improve it.

Ales Hemsky has six goals last year. He played alongside Moreau for the bulk of the season (see: stability for a rookie), then moved to the top line to fill in an injury and he looked fantastic there. That is how a rookie should be developed. Zetterberg received the same position in Detroit last year. Bergeron is working it now in Boston. The list goes on.

And why do you believe Plekanec and Higgins are not NHL ready? I'm not attacking your position, merely curious. I watched both closely in camp and they had outperformed most veterans. Higgins severely outplayed Staal in the rookie tournament (in terms of poise, maturity, skating and all around refined game). Yet we see Staal getting ice time alongside O'Neill in the NHL, and Higgins stuck in the AHL....

The problem I'm having right now is that each of these players [i]arep/i] NHL ready and they're not getting the ice because of ridiculous contracts to soft aging veterans that no other team wants.
Excellent reply. I agree with every word you say.

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11-14-2003, 05:33 AM
  #16
Darz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8

I've been a major advocate for not handing positions to kids, but right now Hossa and Ryder have been two of Montreal's best forwards this season in terms of consistency and bringing strong fundamentals to the rink. They're being jerked around, played on different lines, Hossa sitting in the press box. This is what you do with a young player who is struggling but clearly learning; not a 'seasoned' rookie (as in, spent time in pros for a year or two prior) that is playing well. That's a way to ruin confidence, not improve it..
I agree with you about Ryder and to a lesser extent Hossa. As far as being shifted from line to line, ALL our forwards have been put through that as CJ tries to find lines that could maybe score a goal here or there. I really have to believe CJ knows Hossa better than you and me considering that he coached him now at two different levels. I wonder why he has sat him as many times as he has, but have to believe he has reasons behind it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
And why do you believe Plekanec and Higgins are not NHL ready? I'm not attacking your position, merely curious. I watched both closely in camp and they had outperformed most veterans. Higgins severely outplayed Staal in the rookie tournament (in terms of poise, maturity, skating and all around refined game). Yet we see Staal getting ice time alongside O'Neill in the NHL, and Higgins stuck in the AHL....
Plekanec and Higgins will both benifit from playing in Hamilton for awhile imo. Higgins is coming from Yale and could use a better introduction to the pro game than that than he would receive in Montreal. We all know how the fans and media in Mtl can kill a kids confidence and Higgins growing pains will be alot easier for him to take in Hamilton. Plekanec has started off this year really good and if keeps up his pace I'm sure he'll get a shot at some point in the near future, but it isn't like he's rotting in Hamilton. He's recieving top line minutes and at his age that is probable better than playing in Mtl. unpredicable line up right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
The problem I'm having right now is that each of these players are NHL ready and they're not getting the ice because of ridiculous contracts to soft aging veterans that no other team wants.
The soft aging veterans are on the way out. They were brought in to keep seats warm while the prospects were given time to develop. I'm sure a few extra months in Hamilton (if they are already NHL ready as you suggest) won't ruin their development and might have future benefits.

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