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NYI/Ott Proposal

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Old
11-14-2003, 05:22 AM
  #1
officeglen
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NYI/Ott Proposal

This one I saw suggested on another board and was interested in opinions here.

Ottawa: Mark Parrish
NYI: Petr Schastlivy & pick/prospect (not Emery)

The Sens make this deal to get a winger that can deliver this year Ė Parrish can play LW on a regular basis, RW on the 2nd unit powerplay and he is willing to play around the net to score his goals. With decent skating his style should be a good fit for the Sens.

The Islanders make this deal to cut salary, to switch a player they seem to be unhappy with (or donít value properly) for a player with potential, and to get a pick/prospect. As to the prospect (instead of a pick) personally if I were the Islanders I would be asking for Brooks Laich or Jan Platil, while if the Sens I would want to give up Alexei Kaigorodov or Julien Vauclair.

Comments and flames please.

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11-14-2003, 05:30 AM
  #2
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I'd do this deal from a sens perspective, but I'm not sure the isles would even think about it, unless they REALLY want to dump salary. As far as the prospect goes, I'm not sure the sens would include Platil or Laich, but Vauclair yes. You are probably going to get flamed by isles fans.

I'd go Shastlivy and a 3rd or no deal at all (not that it is fair), just because Parrish would not guarantee us the cup or anything so it is not an urgent move.

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11-14-2003, 05:40 AM
  #3
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I'm not an Isles fan, but there is no way I would do that deal.

Quote:
I'd go Shastlivy and a 3rd or no deal at all
I think you would be settling for a dial tone on that one

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11-14-2003, 05:47 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakes
I'm not an Isles fan, but there is no way I would do that deal.



I think you would be settling for a dial tone on that one
I know, I just mean Ottawa does not really need Parrish, so they would not bother getting him unless it was a steal.

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Old
11-14-2003, 06:52 AM
  #5
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I think unless the Sens can aquire a star left winger that will be on their first line and make a big difference, they should stick with what they have. A guy that is good two-ways would be good to put on Spezza's line. I know that he isn't available, but Jere Lehtinen would be a PERFECT fit.

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11-14-2003, 07:25 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I think unless the Sens can aquire a star left winger that will be on their first line and make a big difference, they should stick with what they have. A guy that is good two-ways would be good to put on Spezza's line. I know that he isn't available, but Jere Lehtinen would be a PERFECT fit.
And there's the catch. You want a star? You've got to give one up to get one.

And that Schastilivy trade is brutal. Why do Sens fans include him in every second proposal? He hasn't done anything to warrant a Mark Parrish, as far as I can tell.

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Old
11-14-2003, 07:29 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I think unless the Sens can aquire a star left winger that will be on their first line and make a big difference, they should stick with what they have. A guy that is good two-ways would be good to put on Spezza's line. I know that he isn't available, but Jere Lehtinen would be a PERFECT fit.
Lehtinen would be a perfect fit for any team and any line. Too bad you have higher chances sleeping with J-Lo then trade for Lehtinen. (note, if you are Ben Afleck, ignore all this)..

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Old
11-14-2003, 07:32 AM
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I think the Sens are targetting one of two type of forwards, and otherwise, will sit tight...

1/ Basically, a depth gritty power forward. They made a waiver claim to get Wiemer (who was perfect), but another versatile two-way power foward who can chip in the odd goal is a no brainer. Trying to get Scott Thornton was another guy I felt was appropriate, but his recent resigning means he's in San Jose for the long-term. This type of trade would involve a pick, a Sens prospect or an extreme depth forward. The bottom line is if Neil goes down to an injury, and Martin doesn't want to play Hnidy regularly, the Sens are stuck with Chara as the only real guy who can go toe to toe with a heavy weight. Team's know this, and he will be targetted, because Ottawa needs him on the ice (especially in the playoffs). Denis Hamel is ok in an emergency situation, but Muckler would like an other option.

2/ An Elite Power forward rent-a-player. A team that is going to miss the playoffs dumps an impending UFA or very expensive power forward when they realize they are out of it. For instance, if Dallas really tanked, Bill Guerin (if he'd agree to a move) would be the kind of guy Ottawa would take on at the deadline and Mucks could probably get the green light from Melynk for the cash. The reality is even if Dallas does struggle, they will probably at least still be in the hunt at the deadline, so I doubt this scenario, but you get the idea.

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Old
11-14-2003, 07:33 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I think unless the Sens can aquire a star left winger that will be on their first line and make a big difference, they should stick with what they have. A guy that is good two-ways would be good to put on Spezza's line. I know that he isn't available, but Jere Lehtinen would be a PERFECT fit.
Ottawa doesn't need a Lehtinen because they have Peter Schaefer. A good two way forward with skill and grit. He's developing a pretty good chemistry on the ice with Spezza as well. He's a whole lot cheaper than Lehtinen to boot.
What Ottawa needs is for Mike Fisher to get healthy. Once he's healthy he can maybe be moved back to the LW and become a power winger that Ottawa needs on the Left side. He'd look good on a line with Smolinski and Alfredsson.

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11-14-2003, 07:33 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen
This one I saw suggested on another board and was interested in opinions here.

Ottawa: Mark Parrish
NYI: Petr Schastlivy & pick/prospect (not Emery)

The Sens make this deal to get a winger that can deliver this year Ė Parrish can play LW on a regular basis, RW on the 2nd unit powerplay and he is willing to play around the net to score his goals. With decent skating his style should be a good fit for the Sens.

The Islanders make this deal to cut salary, to switch a player they seem to be unhappy with (or donít value properly) for a player with potential, and to get a pick/prospect. As to the prospect (instead of a pick) personally if I were the Islanders I would be asking for Brooks Laich or Jan Platil, while if the Sens I would want to give up Alexei Kaigorodov or Julien Vauclair.

Comments and flames please.
While the value is fine, why do we want Parrish?

What does Parrish give us that we need? We clearly can score goals as well as anybody, Parrish isn't a big guy, and he isn't exactly a playoff performer. In fact, in the series versus the Islanders last year, I didn't even realize he was playing. He was completely invisible.

Schastlivy does have some value. He needs ice-time, and he could score a fair bit if given some ice time. Maybe it's just me though, but I think we should go after another type of player.

The name that keeps coming to mind for me is Anson Carter. Assuming he could play LW, Carter would give us that one extra player. I don't know what he'd cost, although his value has dropped significantly since arriving in New York. Just an off-topic idea.

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Old
11-14-2003, 07:38 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen
This one I saw suggested on another board and was interested in opinions here.

Ottawa: Mark Parrish
NYI: Petr Schastlivy & pick/prospect (not Emery)
Comments and flames please.
If the Isles trade Parrish, this is exactly the type of deal I would expect or perhaps a deal for a prospect not in the NHL right now. Any Prrish move is, at this point, simply a dump of a contract and not a hockey move.

Not a bad start, but the Isles would most likely try and talk you down from there!

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11-14-2003, 07:39 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eazye
Ottawa doesn't need a Lehtinen because they have Peter Schaefer. A good two way forward with skill and grit. He's developing a pretty good chemistry on the ice with Spezza as well. He's a whole lot cheaper than Lehtinen to boot.
You are kidding me right? The Sens do not need Lehtinen because they have Petr *** Schaefer? There's no one like Lehtinen, there's no winger even close that brings the same flawless two-way game year in year out. If you need a winger that can play on any line and provides an elite defensive game with 30 goals upside to boot, no matter where or who his linemates are, Lehtinen is your man and there's no one that could do the same, certainly no Petr Schaefer.. And FYI, Lehtinen has been among the most, if not *the* most underpaid player for the last few seasons, and he just got an extension.

That's like saying; "we do not need Petr Forsberg since we have Shaun van Allen, and he's alot cheaper too "..

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11-14-2003, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossa
While the value is fine, why do we want Parrish?

What does Parrish give us that we need? We clearly can score goals as well as anybody, Parrish isn't a big guy, and he isn't exactly a playoff performer. In fact, in the series versus the Islanders last year, I didn't even realize he was playing. He was completely invisible.

Schastlivy does have some value. He needs ice-time, and he could score a fair bit if given some ice time. Maybe it's just me though, but I think we should go after another type of player.

The name that keeps coming to mind for me is Anson Carter. Assuming he could play LW, Carter would give us that one extra player. I don't know what he'd cost, although his value has dropped significantly since arriving in New York. Just an off-topic idea.

and why do the nyi want Schastlivy?

Your own pom pom waver Garroich has reported the Sens have previously offered Schastlivy to the nyi.

Schastlivy's upside is that much greater then Weinhandl,Hunter,Papineau or Bergenheim's?

Cheap,young forwards the nyi already have.

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11-14-2003, 07:45 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki
If the Isles trade Parrish, this is exactly the type of deal I would expect or perhaps a deal for a prospect not in the NHL right now. Any Prrish move is, at this point, simply a dump of a contract and not a hockey move.

Not a bad start, but the Isles would most likely try and talk you down from there!

If this is the type of return the nyi are looking at for Parrish,they might as well offer Parrish to western teams for picks/prospects(not helping eastern conference rivals get stronger) and then the fans should thank Wang for forcing MM to bend the franchise over.

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11-14-2003, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
and why do the nyi want Schastlivy?

Your own pom pom waver Garroich has reported the Sens have previously offered Schastlivy to the nyi.

Schastlivy's upside is that much greater then Weinhandl,Hunter,Papineau or Bergenheim's?

Cheap,young forwards the nyi already have.
I'm not saying the Islanders want Schastlivy. As you said, with guys like Weinhandl, Hunter, Papineau and Bergenheim around, he'd just be another young scorer looking for ice-time.

But he could thrive on some teams. I think on a team like Pittsburgh, with some quality ice time he could thrive. That was all I was saying. This trade doesn't make sense from the Isles perspective, although as a Sens fan, I don't have an interest in Parrish really anyways. I'd do this deal depending on the prospect, but I don't see why we need Parrish.

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11-14-2003, 07:51 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
If this is the type of return the nyi are looking at for Parrish,they might as well offer Parrish to western teams for picks/prospects(not helping eastern conference rivals get stronger) and then the fans should thank Wang for forcing MM to bend the franchise over.
I agree completely with you Crew, but given the facts of the past week if I'm to specualte about a Parrish trade I'm going to assume its no more than a dump.

Millbury and Co. would be forced to move his @+ mill deal, not go out and improve the team. Taking that stance I think the Isles would rahter have a Defensive prospect a year or two away for Parrish.

To be completely realistic, I see no reason to trade a good second line wing who battles in front of the net for a living at all right now. If he's move it because of dollars and dollars alone IMO.

-Tiki

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11-14-2003, 09:16 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
And there's the catch. You want a star? You've got to give one up to get one.

And that Schastilivy trade is brutal. Why do Sens fans include him in every second proposal? He hasn't done anything to warrant a Mark Parrish, as far as I can tell.
Do you even read what is said before you spew your garbage. The reason that trade offer was so brutal was stated, the sens don't need Parrish, therefore (should i slow it down for you), they would not make a deal unless it were something they could not refuse, a hosing.

And to whoever said "said the sens just need fisher back" hit the nail on the head. That is the only lineup change I see needed, man we miss that guy.

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Old
11-14-2003, 09:49 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan18
Do you even read what is said before you spew your garbage. The reason that trade offer was so brutal was stated, the sens don't need Parrish, therefore (should i slow it down for you), they would not make a deal unless it were something they could not refuse, a hosing.

And to whoever said "said the sens just need fisher back" hit the nail on the head. That is the only lineup change I see needed, man we miss that guy.
C'mon.

Ozy is one of the more balanced and informed posters here. He simply doesn't think Schastilivy is worth much in a trade - and he is probably right. I understand your logic as well, but there isn't any need for you to be some confrontive. Ozy's point was reasonable and his post (like all his posts) was sensible.

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11-14-2003, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Modano = God
You are kidding me right? The Sens do not need Lehtinen because they have Petr *** Schaefer? There's no one like Lehtinen, there's no winger even close that brings the same flawless two-way game year in year out. If you need a winger that can play on any line and provides an elite defensive game with 30 goals upside to boot, no matter where or who his linemates are, Lehtinen is your man and there's no one that could do the same, certainly no Petr Schaefer.. And FYI, Lehtinen has been among the most, if not *the* most underpaid player for the last few seasons, and he just got an extension.

That's like saying; "we do not need Petr Forsberg since we have Shaun van Allen, and he's alot cheaper too "..
WHOA, Take a pill, man. A wee bit touchy on the Lehtinen subject are we. First of all it's PETER Schaefer not Petr (He's Canadian, not Russian). Secondly, I know Lehtinen's a better all round player right now than Schaefer, all I was saying was why go out and overspend (trade) on a Lehtinen when your doing just fine with a Schaefer. Dallas would want a pretty good player in return for Lehtinen and Ottawa's not willing to do that.
Anyway the point is moot because Ottawa just got rid of one injury prone defensive player (Arvedson), why would they want another one!

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11-14-2003, 11:24 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eazye
Anyway the point is moot because Ottawa just got rid of one injury prone defensive player (Arvedson), why would they want another one!
Because Lehtinen is loads better than Arvedson too.

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11-14-2003, 12:48 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
C'mon.

Ozy is one of the more balanced and informed posters here. He simply doesn't think Schastilivy is worth much in a trade - and he is probably right. I understand your logic as well, but there isn't any need for you to be some confrontive. Ozy's point was reasonable and his post (like all his posts) was sensible.
LOL Darth. Ozy HATES the Sens, which is where the bad blood comes from. Any Sens trade proposal, he is the anti-homer guy, EVERY time....

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11-14-2003, 01:01 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Egil
LOL Darth. Ozy HATES the Sens, which is where the bad blood comes from. Any Sens trade proposal, he is the anti-homer guy, EVERY time....
I don't know about bad blood between Ozy and Sens fans. However, I am personally a bit of a SENS fans and love the way Ottawa was built. But, even I don't think Schastilivy is much of a trade chip.

P.S. Good to see you posting again, Egil. Has been a while since we feuded! Hope all is well.

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11-14-2003, 01:18 PM
  #23
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You're right. I don't like the Senators - they are the bane of my existence.

However, I see value where value should be, and Schastilivy, IMHO, does not have that kind of value to warrant a Parrish - type player. Nice try. Just because they wear the gold, red, and black doesn't make them a holy grail.

BTW, thanks Darth, especially coming from you........Sometimes I feel my arguements go unoticed!

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11-14-2003, 01:43 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
However, I see value where value should be, and Schastilivy, IMHO, does not have that kind of value to warrant a Parrish - type player. Nice try. Just because they wear the gold, red, and black doesn't make them a holy grail.


I agree that Schastilivy + pick/prospect < Parrish, if the dollars were not involved and we were just comparing values of these players to their teams, not to their owners. However if the Islanders are trying to move Parrish it is not to receive corresponding value at another position or with another type of player, but instead mostly to reduce salary. Thus they will want picks/prospects back, and perhaps a cheap player that can replace some of Parrish's current production.

Put another way, I'm sure that Schastilivy + pick/prospect would get Jagr, if the Sens were willing to take over that contract (if you don't first read everything the Washington owner has said in recent months). Since Jagr > Parrish, then the Sens should be able to get Parrish instead, if one doesn't consider the contract implications.

So the question that this thread and others on Parrish implicitly asks is what is Parrish's trade value given his age, contract, and the Islanders desire to move him at this point of the season? Personally I think it is a lower than what some might expect - most teams are carrying about as much salary load as their owners want to. Now if Islanders were trying to trade him at the deadline, with most of the year already paid for, or between seasons, before teams make commitments, or even now but willing to take on players of considerable salary (or provide $ back), then his trade value would be higher.

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11-14-2003, 01:57 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen

I agree that Schastilivy + pick/prospect < Parrish, if the dollars were not involved and we were just comparing values of these players to their teams, not to their owners. However if the Islanders are trying to move Parrish it is not to receive corresponding value at another position or with another type of player, but instead mostly to reduce salary. Thus they will want picks/prospects back, and perhaps a cheap player that can replace some of Parrish's current production.



So the question that this thread and others on Parrish implicitly asks is what is Parrish's trade value given his age, contract, and the Islanders desire to move him at this point of the season? .

1.Your own beat writer(s) have reported that the Sens have unsuccessfully shopped Schastilivy to LI before in trades involving Izzy and Weimer,players that did not produce the offensive #'s that Parrish has.

2.Isles being in negoiations with the Hawks and Thrashers instead of the Sens, is a pretty good indication that nyi don't want Schastilivy.Isles think their own young forwards will provide Parrish's lost offense.The only thing Schastilivy does is take icetime away from the 4-5 young nyi forwards already fighting for icetime.

If the isles had interest,wouldn't they be talking to the Sens about Schastilivy?

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