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Biggest Point Leech ever

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Old
08-17-2006, 06:00 PM
  #51
ChrisKreider20
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Mike Knuble.
well maybe not ever, but he's still a leech.

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08-17-2006, 06:35 PM
  #52
xeric716x
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08-17-2006, 06:43 PM
  #53
Kimi
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Rucchin between Kariya and Selänne leeched. Not a bad player, but wouldn't have put up the points on any other team.

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Old
08-17-2006, 07:10 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
You need to watch some of the old highlight tapes, Anderson was excellent. Better than a 30 goal scorer on any other team. If anything, Anderson got less ice time in Edmonton because of the talent there.
I saw the games LIVE.

You might want to consider highlight tapes tell only part of the picture son.

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Old
08-19-2006, 10:02 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
I saw the games LIVE.

You might want to consider highlight tapes tell only part of the picture son.
Thank you for your infinite wisdom, gramps.

Do you get cable on the Island?

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Old
08-20-2006, 04:20 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
I saw the games LIVE.

You might want to consider highlight tapes tell only part of the picture son.
Youre right, Anderson took advantage of a weak division and an easy ride into the Finals. He was no more than a second line winger at best who scored 500 West goals.
Nice balance on his skates but not a top player. Kind of a Richer level without the strength.

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Old
08-20-2006, 04:51 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Who's the biggest point leech ever? By this I mean a guy who only got goals/points because of the players on his line. I'm going with Mike Krushelnyski. He got 43 goals and 88 pts playing LW on the Gretzky line, and never ever came close again.
Before Krushelnyski there was Blair (BJ) MacDonald playing with Gretzky. He scored 46 goals with 48 assists in 1979-80 in 80 games. The next season the Oilers paired Gretzky with some Finnish scrub - Kurri was his name IIRC And BJ well he sucked from that point on....

19 goals the next season for the Oil until Sather was able to get the Canucks to take him off his hands. And this was in the day when checkers notched 20 goals on the Oilers.

In 88 games over three seasons with the 'Nucks he scored 26 goals. He was demoted to the AHL in the 1982-83 season after 12 games with the Canucks. He then sat out over a poorly conceived contract dispute and would end up playing in Austria for several seasons until playing a few more games in the AHL and IHL.

IMHO the biggest point leech.

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Old
08-20-2006, 05:31 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Polska View Post
Cheechoo winning the Rocket Richard was especially annoying.
.
rofl... Cheechoo is for real. People act like he's been in the league for yeaaaaaaaars and never produced before Thornton. He scored 28 goals his first full year in the "old" NHL not even playing on the first line. Try doing some research or wait 'til a player's career pans out more.

Jagr is the biggest leech ever. Annoying too.

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Old
08-20-2006, 05:40 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Youre right, Anderson took advantage of a weak division and an easy ride into the Finals. He was no more than a second line winger at best who scored 500 West goals.
Nice balance on his skates but not a top player. Kind of a Richer level without the strength.
Yeah, he got to pad his stats in the same way Viagara Pimp benefitted from the mismanagement of the expansion teams from the 67 growth. Sort of like a Martin Gelinas type, except for the having to hawk his memorabilia and promote sugary sports tonics to keep in smokes.

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Old
08-20-2006, 07:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by bluef0x View Post
Jagr is the biggest leech ever.
I agree with your points about Cheechoo...people forget that he is only 26 years old...and just coming into his own.

But I really, really hope that last bit is sarcasm...

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Old
08-20-2006, 08:51 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Youre right, Anderson took advantage of a weak division and an easy ride into the Finals. He was no more than a second line winger at best who scored 500 West goals.
Nice balance on his skates but not a top player. Kind of a Richer level without the strength.
The horse is dead...

Stop beating it...

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Old
08-20-2006, 09:04 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by IronMosher View Post
How can you say Cheechoo yet? He even popped in 28 goals (if memory serves me right) on the 3rd line the year before Joe.
Do you seriously believe Cheecho is a 50 goal forward on his own?

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Old
08-20-2006, 09:51 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluef0x View Post
rofl... Cheechoo is for real. People act like he's been in the league for yeaaaaaaaars and never produced before Thornton. He scored 28 goals his first full year in the "old" NHL not even playing on the first line. Try doing some research or wait 'til a player's career pans out more.
There's no way Cheechoo would have gotten 56 goals not playing with Thornton last year. I'm not saying that anybody could have gotten 50+ with Joe because Cheechoo is a talented player, but not Kovalchuk/Ovechkin-talented. Playing with Joe boosted his goal total by 20 goals at least.

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Old
08-20-2006, 10:04 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluef0x View Post
rofl... Cheechoo is for real. People act like he's been in the league for yeaaaaaaaars and never produced before Thornton. He scored 28 goals his first full year in the "old" NHL not even playing on the first line. Try doing some research or wait 'til a player's career pans out more.

Jagr is the biggest leech ever. Annoying too.
It's you who obviously hasn't done his research. Here are the facts:

05/06 Season

Without Thornton:

GP G A PTS
25 9 8 17

On pace for:

GP G A PTS
82 30 26 56

With Thornton:

GP G A PTS
57 47 29 76

Actually finished with:

GP G A PTS
82 56 37 93

FACT: Cheechoo is a leech

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Old
08-21-2006, 12:35 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polska View Post
FACT: Cheechoo is a leech
Fact? You PROJECTED the stats. Hardly a fact... you need to go to www.m-w.com and look up the word.

Look, I can do it too:

FACT: Jaromir Jagr is the biggest leech and puck hog.

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Old
08-21-2006, 02:37 AM
  #66
Polska
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Originally Posted by bluef0x View Post
Fact? You PROJECTED the stats. Hardly a fact... you need to go to www.m-w.com and look up the word.

Look, I can do it too:

FACT: Jaromir Jagr is the biggest leech and puck hog.
Haha, I knew some smart guy was gonna post a link to a dictionary, very clever.

And it's not so much the projection that's important, that just helps to put his production without Thornton into perspective. It also goes to show that without Thornton his production per game was very close to what he was putting up in 03/04.

But of course that doesn't interest you. You fan boys will just look past everything. Trade Thornton and Cheechoo never sees another piece of hardware again.

Edit: And who do you propose Jagr leeched off of this season!? I naturally assumed you were being sarcastic when you first mentioned it.


Last edited by Polska: 08-21-2006 at 02:46 AM.
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Old
08-21-2006, 03:22 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MissionHockey View Post
Do you seriously believe Cheecho is a 50 goal forward on his own?
Noone is.

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Old
08-21-2006, 03:39 AM
  #68
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Old
08-21-2006, 11:32 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Polska View Post
Haha, I knew some smart guy was gonna post a link to a dictionary, very clever.

And it's not so much the projection that's important, that just helps to put his production without Thornton into perspective. It also goes to show that without Thornton his production per game was very close to what he was putting up in 03/04.

But of course that doesn't interest you. You fan boys will just look past everything. Trade Thornton and Cheechoo never sees another piece of hardware again.

Edit: And who do you propose Jagr leeched off of this season!? I naturally assumed you were being sarcastic when you first mentioned it.
As long as I put it in bold and put FACT: in front, I can say whatever I want and it's true! I learned this neat trick from you.

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Old
08-21-2006, 12:03 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Kimi View Post
Rucchin between Kariya and Selänne leeched. Not a bad player, but wouldn't have put up the points on any other team.
I've always viewed Rucchin as the perfect guy to play with Kariya and Selanne. If you had another dangling centre on that line, even say, a Craig Janney, I think their overall effectiveness would have been reduced. Kariya and Selanne are danglers, dangerous at shooting the puck or making plays. But they're at their best with the puck on the stick. Put a dangler at centre, and you have three guys clamouring for one puck.

Rucchin knew his role: get the puck to Kariya and Selanne. He was a good playmaking centre, and a very, very smart player. He could follow up on a play, too. Rucchin was terrific defensively, usually collecting a few Selke votes each year. He stayed back, allowing Selanne and Kariya to take chances. And he was also excellent on faceoffs, creating chances for his wingers off the draw.

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Old
08-21-2006, 12:08 PM
  #71
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Rucchin playing with Kariya, Selanne, Rob Brown playing Lemeiux, and what about Jari Kurri? I think without Gretzky he would have been 60-80 point guy on his own.
Hardly. Do your research. Kurri was a gifted goal scorer. Maybe the best one-timer of any player in hockey over the last quarter century, with the exception of Brett Hull. The perfect player for Gretzky. Kurri had everything you could want in an elite goal scorer: a shot that had velocity, accuracy and a quick release, natural hand-eye coordination, and the proverbial nose for the net. He was also a fine defensive forward. Finished second in Selke voting early in his career.

Anderson was a terrific player. He was an outstanding skater. And he was very dangerous close to the net. He wasn't big, but he knew what to do in front of the net on the power play. Great hands, great shot. His drop-off after he left Edmonton is more reflective of the amount of hockey he played early in his career, and how much punishment he took, than losing Gretzky or Messier as linemates.

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Old
08-21-2006, 12:26 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Unseenpunk View Post
Mike Knuble.
well maybe not ever, but he's still a leech.
Mike Knuble is a decent player but I also agree that he's somewhat of a leech. Maybe not a leech by pure definition but definitely that "third guy who completes a pair". Just stick him with any two talented players and watch all three rack up points. Put him with average players and he'll be average at best.

I even christened the tactic the Mike-Knuble Effect, best recent example being Carter playing with the Sedins (not to mention the man himself playing with Forsberg-Gagne).

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Old
08-21-2006, 12:28 PM
  #73
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Anson Carter
I second that. He is a very lazy player and if not for Sedin sisters last year and Comrie with the Oil he would have nowhere near his numbers.

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Old
08-21-2006, 12:43 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Kevin Stevens was a second-team all-star in 1991, when Mario missed most of the season. Stevens-Mark Recchi-John Cullen formed one of the top lines in the league that year, the Option Line. So I suggest you do a little more research.
Then he was traded to Boston and was terrible no matter who he played with. He is a point leech.

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Old
08-21-2006, 01:03 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polska View Post
It's you who obviously hasn't done his research. Here are the facts:

05/06 Season

Without Thornton:

GP G A PTS
25 9 8 17

On pace for:

GP G A PTS
82 30 26 56

With Thornton:

GP G A PTS
57 47 29 76

Actually finished with:

GP G A PTS
82 56 37 93

FACT: Cheechoo is a leech
FACT: In his first full year in the league, Cheechoo scored 28 goals playing largely on the third line, I believe with Mike Ricci and Scott Thornton, neither of whom are exactly offensive dynamos.

FACT: In those first 25 games of the season, the entire team struggled. Remember there was a 10 game losing streak in there. Losing streaks have a nasty habit of not letting players add to their stat totals all that much.

FACT: Any player who plays with the eventual Art Ross winner on their line is going to experience some increase to their point totals. However, 99% of the time, the players on lines with such offensive catalysts are no slouches themselves. In order for Cheechoo to be put into the situation he was in and succeed, he had to have some latent offensive ability. After all, why didn't Scott Thornton and Nils Ekman break out while on the Joe line? Ekman finished with 1 less goal and 2 more points after playing most of the season with Joe and Cheech. Scott finished with 3 less goals and 6 less points last season compared to the season before. Granted his play on the top line was limited, but he never showed any real improvement in that time.

FACT: Cheechoo is not a leech.

A leech should be defined as someone whose achievments are significantly increased and solely the result of a specific teammate.

Cheechoo was almost a 30 goal scorer with checking line companions. Logic suggests that over the course of a full season, he would do better with scoring line forwards. Your stat setup shows this, because even with a struggling team Cheechoo was on pace for better totals (albeit only slightly better). Logic again suggests that if the team went on a winning streak, Cheechoo could've conceivably scored more points than his initial pace was set for.

Do I believe that Cheech would've been a 50 goal man without Thornton? I'd say it would've been very unlikely. Do I believe that he could've eventually scored, say, 40 goals if Thornton hadn't arrived. I think that wouldn't be an impossible total. Do I think that adding 16 goals to that total due to the addition of the guy who won the freaking Art Ross qualifies him as a leech? Absolutley not.

By your logic, shouldn't Joe be considered a leech since Cheechoo's 56 goals obviously contributed to his assist totals? Joe averaged 1.4 points per game in Boston. He averaged about 1.6 points per game in San Jose. It might only be .2 points per game, but that .2 means that every 5 games he notched an extra point. And considering that his goals per game level is virtually the same in both Boston and San Jose last season (less than 0.1 goals per game difference), I'd say that those extra points were coming in the form of assists. Assists that usually found the blade of Cheechoo's stick. No Cheech, no Art Ross for Thornton. Leech? I doubt anyone would be willing to make that claim.

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