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CBA question re: Training camp, IR and the salary cap.

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10-07-2007, 10:54 PM
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Kritter471
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CBA question re: Training camp, IR and the salary cap.

I'm just curious what the implications are in this situation, a situation the Stars are in right now.

Things I believe to be a given: Teams start training camp with everyone on their NHL roster, with players sent down as camp progresses. Players cannot be sent down when they're injured. Any player on the NHL roster but IR still counts against the cap.

The situation is this: you have several players on two-way contracts who are not expected to make the team. To call them longshots would be generous. These players either come into camp hurt (hockey injury, so not eligible for suspension) or get hurt in the first weeks. Therefore they cannot be sent down.

In order to create enough roster space since these guys cannot be sent down, the two-way players go on IR (regular, not LTIR). Now, do their NHL salaries count against the cap for the NHL club?

I think so, but then again, it seems odd that training camp and preseason injuries of guys who would not be on the opening day roster otherwise would be so negative. I would think it would motivate teams to not invite the scrubs at all, or at least send them down very quickly, and that doesn't appear to happen.

So CBA gurus, what say you?

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10-07-2007, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
I'm just curious what the implications are in this situation, a situation the Stars are in right now.

Things I believe to be a given: Teams start training camp with everyone on their NHL roster, with players sent down as camp progresses. Players cannot be sent down when they're injured. Any player on the NHL roster but IR still counts against the cap.

The situation is this: you have several players on two-way contracts who are not expected to make the team. To call them longshots would be generous. These players either come into camp hurt (hockey injury, so not eligible for suspension) or get hurt in the first weeks. Therefore they cannot be sent down.

In order to create enough roster space since these guys cannot be sent down, the two-way players go on IR (regular, not LTIR). Now, do their NHL salaries count against the cap for the NHL club?

I think so, but then again, it seems odd that training camp and preseason injuries of guys who would not be on the opening day roster otherwise would be so negative. I would think it would motivate teams to not invite the scrubs at all, or at least send them down very quickly, and that doesn't appear to happen.

So CBA gurus, what say you?

All players on a teams NHL roster, (unless suspended) whether injured or not, count towards the cap. The long term injury exception does not eliminate a players salary from counting towards the cap it just allows a team to exceed the cap by that players salary. I hope that came out clear.

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10-08-2007, 08:45 AM
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Irish Blues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
I'm just curious what the implications are in this situation, a situation the Stars are in right now.

Things I believe to be a given: Teams start training camp with everyone on their NHL roster, with players sent down as camp progresses. Players cannot be sent down when they're injured. Any player on the NHL roster but IR still counts against the cap.

The situation is this: you have several players on two-way contracts who are not expected to make the team. To call them longshots would be generous. These players either come into camp hurt (hockey injury, so not eligible for suspension) or get hurt in the first weeks. Therefore they cannot be sent down.

In order to create enough roster space since these guys cannot be sent down, the two-way players go on IR (regular, not LTIR). Now, do their NHL salaries count against the cap for the NHL club?

I think so, but then again, it seems odd that training camp and preseason injuries of guys who would not be on the opening day roster otherwise would be so negative. I would think it would motivate teams to not invite the scrubs at all, or at least send them down very quickly, and that doesn't appear to happen.

So CBA gurus, what say you?
Players injured before camp where the injury is not as a direct result of a team event [game, pracitce, conditioning, etc.] can be assigned to the minors. Wear-and-tear injuries would apply here; injuries directly attributable to a single incident during a game would not.

Squidward pretty much covered the rest; the only thing I'll add in here is that IR and LTIR can be made retroactive to help get cap relief sooner and/or get guys off the NHL roster and to the minors sooner. The main reason those "scrubs" get invited is for scrimmages to help get guys into game shape and to give those players an idea of what to expect if/when they make it to the NHL.

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10-08-2007, 12:51 PM
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kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Players injured before camp where the injury is not as a direct result of a team event [game, pracitce, conditioning, etc.] can be assigned to the minors. Wear-and-tear injuries would apply here; injuries directly attributable to a single incident during a game would not.

Squidward pretty much covered the rest; the only thing I'll add in here is that IR and LTIR can be made retroactive to help get cap relief sooner and/or get guys off the NHL roster and to the minors sooner. The main reason those "scrubs" get invited is for scrimmages to help get guys into game shape and to give those players an idea of what to expect if/when they make it to the NHL.
The other issue is that many of those "Scrubs" who are injured during training camp CAN be assigned to the minors - if they were in the minors and recalled for training camp:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 13.6
13.6 Injured Player Loan to Minor Leagues. A Player who is otherwise required to
clear Regular Waivers and who is injured while on an NHL roster can be placed on
Regular Waivers and be Loaned to a minor league
club prior to appropriate medical
clearance being granted only if the Player was on NHL Recall at the time of injury and
has not played ten (10) NHL Games (cumulative) or remained on the NHL roster for
thirty (30) days (cumulative) since his Recall
. Player shall receive his Paragraph 1 NHL
Salary and benefits until appropriate medical clearance is granted. All other Players may
not be Loaned until appropriate medical clearance is granted.

A Player who is otherwise required to clear Regular Waivers who is
injured during Training Camp must clear Regular Waivers if he remains on an NHL
roster for thirty (30) days (cumulative) during his injury or if he plays ten (10) NHL
Games (cumulative) before being Loaned to a minor league club.

The Player's injured days on the roster and NHL Games played following
such injury count towards the Waiver expiration provision of Section 13.5.
Also note that players in training camp are only considered on the Active Roster if they were on the teams Active Roster (under contract and not on the Injured Reserve List, Injured Non Roster, designated Non-Roster, or Loaned) after the Trade Deadline last season. A player who is not on a teams Active Roster in Training Camp may be assigned to the minors even if injured, since it would not be a "Loan" - only players on the Active Roster may be loaned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 1
"Active Roster" shall be determined as follows: Commencing on the day
prior to the start of the Regular Season, and concluding with each respective Club's last
NHL Game in a League Year, Active Roster shall include all Players on a Club's Reserve
List who are signed to an approved and registered SPC, subject to the provisions of
Article 11, and who are not on the Injured Reserve List, Injured Non Roster, designated
Non-Roster, or Loaned. A Player who is on a Conditioning Loan is included on a Club's
Active Roster. During Training Camp, a Player shall be deemed to be on the Club's
Active Roster only if he had been on the Club's Active Roster after the Trade Deadline in
the preceding season on other than an emergency recall basis.
edit: Actually, "Loan" covers players on the Active Roster, Non-Roster, Injured Non-Roster or Injured Reserve Lists. A player injured during training camp cannot be placed on Injured Reserve, but they can be placed on Injured Non-Roster - which would preclude them from being Loaned except under the recall exclusion of 13.6.


Last edited by kdb209: 10-08-2007 at 12:56 PM.
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