HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Why not 2 trades?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2003, 10:05 PM
  #26
Hemsky01
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilersRRRock/Kim
Deal #1 Comrie and Ferguson for Stuart
I don't think Brad Stuart is up to it although he is an
offensive dman. so No not Stuart
Brad Stuart will be an allstar in this league from next year on until he retires. This guy was dynamite in junior(absolutely controlled games) and had one of the heaviest shots you've ever seen. He would be great on the powerplay. A change of scenery would do wonders for him. Just my opinion but if the Oilers could get Stuart for Comrie, I'll personally fly to San Jose and pick him up(I'll need some of the Oilers cash of course )

Hemsky01 is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 12:02 AM
  #27
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Have we really had the name Stefan drilled into us so many times that we now consider him to be a player we'd want to attain instead of a bust concussion case who has VERY LIMITED NHL offensive ability? Come on guys, enough with Stefan already. If we're acquiring a center, we need to do better. Enough with the 'projects'.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 05:19 AM
  #28
hillbillypriest
Registered User
 
hillbillypriest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: there there
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Have we really had the name Stefan drilled into us so many times that we now consider him to be a player we'd want to attain instead of a bust concussion case who has VERY LIMITED NHL offensive ability? Come on guys, enough with Stefan already. If we're acquiring a center, we need to do better. Enough with the 'projects'.
Hear hear...

Anyone who is thinking about Stefan needs to skim this thread from the Atlanta board.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=23182

Particularly notable is the reference to a Glen Healy video clip segment complaining about Stefan needing the "bring something" even when he's not scoring. There also seemed to be general head nodding to the idea that Atlanta needed to trade Stefan before the league realized he was really Alexandre Daigle.

These are not good signs, and certainly not the traits of a player that would thrive in Edmonton. Why set the guy up to be booed out of town?

hillbillypriest is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 08:24 AM
  #29
Asiaoil
Registered User
 
Asiaoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Thailand
Posts: 5,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypriest
Hear hear...

Anyone who is thinking about Stefan needs to skim this thread from the Atlanta board.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=23182

Particularly notable is the reference to a Glen Healy video clip segment complaining about Stefan needing the "bring something" even when he's not scoring. There also seemed to be general head nodding to the idea that Atlanta needed to trade Stefan before the league realized he was really Alexandre Daigle.

These are not good signs, and certainly not the traits of a player that would thrive in Edmonton. Why set the guy up to be booed out of town?
Hi HBP - that's why I would not trade anything more than spare parts for Stefan - certainly not Comrie. If some combination of Horcoff, Chimera or Laraque was not enough then so be it. After watching Jani Rita last night though - the "need to bring something even when he's not scoring" comment looks to fit very well in his case too. Maybe it's fitting that they are traded for each other - Rita for Stefan - under-achiever for under-achiever.

I don't expect Stefan to become a 50 point guy immediately after putting on an Oiler uniform. But looking around the league - how many big young centers with some scoring potential, a decent defensive game and modest salary are available? Almost none and certainly none at the price Stefan carries right now.

Sure getting Stefan is a risk - but if we only need to give Atlanta spare parts or a draft pick - then I think its a risk worth taking.

Asiaoil is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 08:41 AM
  #30
Asiaoil
Registered User
 
Asiaoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Thailand
Posts: 5,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Have we really had the name Stefan drilled into us so many times that we now consider him to be a player we'd want to attain instead of a bust concussion case who has VERY LIMITED NHL offensive ability? Come on guys, enough with Stefan already. If we're acquiring a center, we need to do better. Enough with the 'projects'.
Who exactly are these centers we can aquire??? We are NEVER going to get a bigger offensive center in exchange for Comrie - so forget guys like Marleau. No team would do a trade like that as it makes absolutely no sense.

The board has gone over the center options a million times without anything reasonable coming up. The only young guys available are players with unproven potential or flaws - Stefan, Kolanos etc etc. A guy like Handzus (slow as mud) isn't a fit on this team either and look how well the Briere-Gratton trade has turned out for the dogs.

No it makes much more sense to trade MC for a dman and then use spare parts or picks to aquire a guy worth taking a risk on like Stefan or Kolanos. I'm not saying Stefan IS the guy we need - but he's one of a pretty small number of options.

Asiaoil is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 10:59 AM
  #31
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Who exactly are these centers we can aquire??? We are NEVER going to get a bigger offensive center in exchange for Comrie - so forget guys like Marleau. No team would do a trade like that as it makes absolutely no sense.

The board has gone over the center options a million times without anything reasonable coming up. The only young guys available are players with unproven potential or flaws - Stefan, Kolanos etc etc. A guy like Handzus (slow as mud) isn't a fit on this team either and look how well the Briere-Gratton trade has turned out for the dogs.

No it makes much more sense to trade MC for a dman and then use spare parts or picks to aquire a guy worth taking a risk on like Stefan or Kolanos. I'm not saying Stefan IS the guy we need - but he's one of a pretty small number of options.
Didn't you read my earlier post listing all the centers that should be possibilities, even when only dealing bit parts? Stefan, Kolanos, and Handzus weren't on there. We should, to quote myself, "Go after a Viktor Kozlov, a Mark Parrish, a Tim Connolly (YES, ANOTHER PLUG), a Mike Fisher, Marco Sturm, etc." Nearly all attainable through bit-part trading in theory, and all better than Patrik Stefan I'd think we'd agree.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 01:36 PM
  #32
TheChase
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 873
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky01
Brad Stuart will be an allstar in this league from next year on until he retires. This guy was dynamite in junior(absolutely controlled games) and had one of the heaviest shots you've ever seen. He would be great on the powerplay. A change of scenery would do wonders for him. Just my opinion but if the Oilers could get Stuart for Comrie, I'll personally fly to San Jose and pick him up(I'll need some of the Oilers cash of course )
I probably end up eating humble pie on this one, but the last time I watched SJ play, his play was very ordinary, but then again he may have still been on the mend

TheChase is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 01:57 PM
  #33
OYLer
Registered User
 
OYLer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Win Desperate & Mad!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,703
vCash: 500
I think what I miss the most about the Faceoff site demise was the instant reference to player's base salaries that could be referenced so easily. When considering these trade proposals, most could be vetted dollar-wise from Edmonton's perspective simply because of financial realities. Exactly how much is Marleau's contract and Stuart's? Even with a salary cap some player's will get over paid and be not really too tradeable.

OYLer is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 02:24 PM
  #34
Asiaoil
Registered User
 
Asiaoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Thailand
Posts: 5,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Didn't you read my earlier post listing all the centers that should be possibilities, even when only dealing bit parts? Stefan, Kolanos, and Handzus weren't on there. We should, to quote myself, "Go after a Viktor Kozlov, a Mark Parrish, a Tim Connolly (YES, ANOTHER PLUG), a Mike Fisher, Marco Sturm, etc." Nearly all attainable through bit-part trading in theory, and all better than Patrik Stefan I'd think we'd agree.
LMHF1 – rag on me for Stefan - I can understand that. But suggesting Connolly as a better solution doesn't make sense. Connolly is everything you accuse Stefan of – a marshmallow soft, under-performing disappointment.

Tim Connolly
99-00 Nyi 81 14 20 34 -25
00-01 Nyi 82 10 31 41 -14
01-02 Buf 82 10 35 45 4
02-03 Buf 80 12 13 25 -28

Patrik Stefan
99-00 Atl 72 5 20 25 -20
00-01 Atl 66 10 21 31 -3
01-02 Atl 59 7 16 23 -4
02-03 Atl 71 13 21 34 -10

At least Stefan has managed to develop some sort of defensive game unlike Connolly who was just a disaster last year. Where is he now any way? As for the rest of your suggestions:

Kozlov (too old – 28, too expensive – $2.3 mil, attitude issues, injury prone and Lowe doesn’t like Russians)
Sturm (no way he is acquired him for spare parts – he would take Comrie at least. He’s also smaller and primarily a winger)
Parish – he’s a RW
Fisher – too small

None of these guys qualify as the big 2 way center we need – and as I said – all of them have problems be it age, salary, size or attitude. The only guys who remotely fit our need (big, young but with a few years in the league, low salary, defensively responsible, not too expensive to acquire) are Stefan or maybe Kolanos. Both of these guys also have significant negatives attached. If Lowe considers both of them useless – then I am perfectly fine with that – but the only other option I see is waiting for Niinimaki, Pouliot, Winchester or Stoll to develop.

Our center issue is so damn confounding that it's insane and there are no easy answers. If it was easy KLowe would have solved it years ago.

Asiaoil is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 02:47 PM
  #35
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
None of these guys qualify as the big 2 way center we need – and as I said – all of them have problems be it age, salary, size or attitude. The only guys who remotely fit our need (big, young but with a few years in the league, low salary, defensively responsible, not too expensive to acquire) are Stefan or maybe Kolanos. Both of these guys also have significant negatives attached. If Lowe considers both of them useless – then I am perfectly fine with that – but the only other option I see is waiting for Niinimaki, Pouliot, Winchester or Stoll to develop.

Our center issue is so damn confounding that it's insane and there are no easy answers. If it was easy KLowe would have solved it years ago.
Connolly has better numbers, is young and has exhibited more top-line upside. He isn't small, he's played in the league since he was 18/19, still comes fairly cheap, and doesn't miss games, there's a ton to like about him. Buffalo was a nasty situation last year, and something's obviously still wrong there.

I don't think our principle need is a "big 2-way center". We need a top-line capable center, another solid d-man, and a goalie. The next priority after those 3 is a goal-scorer. Those are the 4 areas I'd want to improve on this team. Don't agree at all on your analysis of Kozlov. Why is 2.3 mil too expensive? And why is 28 too old? Parrish, though not a center, would be an excellent pickup rather than a Stefan, and is now reportedly quite available in NYI. And we could always make another deal after, I never ruled that out.

If our "only options" are Stefan and Kolanos, then this problem is not getting solved. Neither is capable of providing an adequate level of offensive skill for our top line.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 03:12 PM
  #36
TheChase
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 873
vCash: 500
Citing league sources, the Herald says the Hawks also have had an interest in one of the Islanders’ top defensemen, either Janne Niinimaa or Roman Hamrlik - but that Isles GM Milbury wasn’t sure he wanted to deal them with his team off to an 8-5-2 start.

If Milbury would consider trading Ninimaa back, it could ix our pp as well.
Does anyone who what his current salary is and for how long?

TheChase is offline  
Old
11-15-2003, 09:11 PM
  #37
outKast*
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,664
vCash: 500
so we lose Comrie, Laraque, Horcoff and Fergy

and we aquire

Stefan, Stuart, and pick?

r u nuts?

Laraque alone could get us more than Stefan. Stuart could be had for Comrie straight up.

outKast* is offline  
Old
11-16-2003, 09:12 AM
  #38
Asiaoil
Registered User
 
Asiaoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Thailand
Posts: 5,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilflip
so we lose Comrie, Laraque, Horcoff and Fergy

and we aquire

Stefan, Stuart, and pick?

r u nuts?

Laraque alone could get us more than Stefan. Stuart could be had for Comrie straight up.
I just threw fergie in with Comrie for Stuart becuase we would not have any room for him if we aquired another dman. Don't under-estimate what it would cost to get Stefan - look what it cost the dogs to get useless Gratton last year (Briere). Rita for Stefan seems OK given how bad Rita has been playing - disappointment for disappointment. Maybe both guys need a change of scenery. Supposedly Pendergast has said they are looking to aquire a center outside a Comrie deal.

Just another comment - I watched a bit of the Sharks-Leafs game last night and Stuart would be awesome in an Oilers jersey.

Asiaoil is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.