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I'm tired of hering that the Q is...

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Old
11-15-2003, 10:50 AM
  #51
LaLaLaprise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
One other thing should be noted. The NHL is an ever-growing league. There is not one single NHL snapshot to take. The style of the game is ever-evolving.

At this point, the direction the NHL is taking is more attuned to the Q than it was 10 years ago. As a result, we're seeing a couple of success stories. Small forwards making it and having a fairly good impact.

The Q has some good stuff to offer. But better coaching will be required if we want better defensemen, more teaching for the teachers themselves.

But I like how certain forwards are doing out there. And I think the game is more free-flowing than it was many years ago. I don't think some of the forwards would do as well at the height of the hooking/obstruction days.

The crackdown on obstruction is not a complete success but we seem to be getting there step by step and that bodes well for the all-skill players. The Q has many of that.

Really, it's not that bad. A step behind in some areas, a step ahead in some areas. All three CHL league have something to offer. They are microcosms and naturally, you see trends in them. Why is the WHL developing so MANY high profile defensemen? Why doesn't the OHL do the same, for instance?
Good points, i think more and more offensive smallish players are getting more chances now considering at how low scoring the NHL is.

For example look at Matthew Lombardi, the guy is 5'10 and is getting a regular shift, wouldnt have happened a few years ago.

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11-15-2003, 11:38 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
It does? How so?

I think the Memorial Cup is a very, very small sample of what each league has to offer under special circumstances.

It doesn't speak "VOLUMES" at all.

You gotta look at a larger sample before reaching those conclusions. And the way the leagues are set up, it is not economically feasable to do so.
You know, I might be in the minority on that. It just seems that since you are sending your league champion team to the pool there that it should mean something. I don't know, but it's like the Stanley Cup of junior hockey in a way.

2nd place should never be something someone thinks is a great achievement.

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Old
11-15-2003, 11:52 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Reveille
You know, I might be in the minority on that. It just seems that since you are sending your league champion team to the pool there that it should mean something. I don't know, but it's like the Stanley Cup of junior hockey in a way.

2nd place should never be something someone thinks is a great achievement.
Its still a team event. Its not based on individuals. Look at the team from QMJHL last year. Gatineau beat Halifax. Gatineau didnt have as many good young NHL prospects as Halifax. Yet they still won.

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11-15-2003, 01:00 PM
  #54
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Two things. Well actually three.

A. Anyone who has seen a QMJHL game live or like me on tape, Feals love for that league. It's like watching the NHL when the great one was 23 and you could go to a game and really see some sick skill players do there thing. I was giddy when I heard I was getting my newest tape of Bernier vs Hennessy earlier in the year. I look forward to watching a game from the Q.

B. Taking a Forward or a Goaltender is just as good if not better then taking a kid from the OHL or WHL. The Q has the kids who know how to score it seems, History has shown and lately look no furthur then Crosby and my man Bernier.

C. I dont like defensman from there. You rarely see a kid play defense in the Q and see him get drafted by a NHL team.

What does that make? A very fun and entertaining brand of hockey that reminds me of the tapes and highlights i've seen of the past. It's also a great place to find offensivly gifted forwards and goalies who've been standing on there heads for most games.

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11-15-2003, 02:17 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
I've played goalie since the mid-70's. Beat a future NHL goalie for outstanding goalie in a tournament when I was playing competively. Unfortunately a brutal set of knees ended my hopes of playing Junior or NCAA hockey. Had the opportunity to play against a fair share of future NHL players.

The point I was making that during your development if you are facing 40 spg vs 20-25 for your counterparts, you are going to develop faster and quite possibly better.
Quebec goalies get coach when they are Atome. When i was Pee-wee, me and one of my friend went to the Midget AAA prospect camp in Jonquiere and we was the only two without any coach.. We lived in a small town and the others were from Chicoutimi and Jonquiere...

Better athletes in Quebec have become goalies for one reason : Patrick Roy.

And the shot argument is pointless... Luongo faced an average of 28,4 shots in his Q carreer. Brodeur = 27,2... and im sure we can come up with others as well.. This is a lot less than 40 spg...

Also, you become a better goalie in pratice and not in games...

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11-15-2003, 09:17 PM
  #56
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When I was 10, I was a goaltender and I used to attend to a special goalie practice every week. The pratice was about 2 hours long and we were learning technics and we've been trained by Frederic Casivi in the summer. We learned butterfly and other very technical things as such a young age. I also attended "L'École Pierre Sévigny" in Trois-Rivières version goaltender. Damn, I wasn't even playing competitve so I do not want to imagine how those double letters kids are trained!

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Old
11-16-2003, 08:05 PM
  #57
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What is the problem with the Q?.....

The type of players aren't the same point.

In the Q....the goalie are the best in the country and small forward show great speed and scoring ability.

In O and W....The players are bigger and play more defence.

What is the problem?

NHL don't want small speedy players.....Those players are excellent but pick very late by NHL teams in draft selection (the problem they are small):

C.Locke - P.M Bouchard - D.Brière - S.Sullivan - T.Fleury - Z.Parise....etc

What is the problem with the Q?......

Team Canada....how many young hockey players from the Q aren't playing?....Why the best scorer of the CHL a player name P.M Bouchard wasn't selected two years ago?

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Old
11-16-2003, 09:20 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Anfernic
The memorial cup is a team honor so I don't see the link with that thread.

In addition the memorial cup is win only by one team in Canada so I will ask you a question, how many times the team from Q finish second overall??

I don't know the answer but that was simply to remind you that compare league with the memorial cup isn't good.

Compare the all star game of 2 or 3 years (when each league plays against the others) if you wan't to have a better argument.


Or remember 2 years ago when the WHL West wiped out the Q's Dillio or whatever the hell its called 9-2.

 
Old
11-16-2003, 09:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
Two things. Well actually three.

A. Anyone who has seen a QMJHL game live or like me on tape, Feals love for that league. It's like watching the NHL when the great one was 23 and you could go to a game and really see some sick skill players do there thing. I was giddy when I heard I was getting my newest tape of Bernier vs Hennessy earlier in the year. I look forward to watching a game from the Q.

B. Taking a Forward or a Goaltender is just as good if not better then taking a kid from the OHL or WHL. The Q has the kids who know how to score it seems, History has shown and lately look no furthur then Crosby and my man Bernier.

C. I dont like defensman from there. You rarely see a kid play defense in the Q and see him get drafted by a NHL team.

What does that make? A very fun and entertaining brand of hockey that reminds me of the tapes and highlights i've seen of the past. It's also a great place to find offensivly gifted forwards and goalies who've been standing on there heads for most games.




Yeah they know how to score but look at past so called great scorers frmo the Q they havent come even close to translating it into the NHL because they only know 1 part of the game.


Daigle
Dube
Bouchard
Gamache
Reid


The list goes on and on.

 
Old
11-16-2003, 09:28 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shazata69
Yeah they know how to score but look at past so called great scorers frmo the Q they havent come even close to translating it into the NHL because they only know 1 part of the game.


Daigle
Dube
Bouchard
Gamache
Reid


The list goes on and on.
I really hope you don't mean PM-Bouchard...cause he's doing just fine translating to the NHL.

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Old
11-17-2003, 08:38 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shazata69
Yeah they know how to score but look at past so called great scorers frmo the Q they havent come even close to translating it into the NHL because they only know 1 part of the game.


Daigle
Dube
Bouchard
Gamache
Reid


The list goes on and on.
Hey are u sick

Daigle: has a poor nhl career because he don't like to play hockey

Dube: decided to play in Europe because he did'nt like nhl type of play

Bouchard: hey man he is 19 years old and he is already in important part of his team where is the *****?

Gamache and Reid: Both will start to produce in 2 or 3 years like Briere a couples years ago (These kind of guys take 3 or 4 years to adapt to nhl type of play)

So review your argument because it's one of the poorest I've ever seen.

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Old
11-17-2003, 09:48 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Van
When you look at the list of Memorial Cup Championship teams over the last 30 years, you will see two QMJHL teams on that list. Granby in 1996 and Hull in 2000. Meanwhile, during the last 30 years, the WHL has 15 Memorial Cup banners and the OHL has 13.

When it comes to the hockey being played, the WHL and OHL are head and shoulders above the QMJHL.
Last 10 years- WHL 5 Memorial Cups & 2 runner-ups, QMJHL 3 Memorial Cups & 4 runner-ups, OHL -2 memorial cups & 3 runner-ups.Last 4 yrs.WHL 2wins & 1 runner-up,Q 1win & 3 runner-ups, OHl 1win.

 
Old
11-17-2003, 10:57 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shazata69
Or remember 2 years ago when the WHL West wiped out the Q's Dillio or whatever the hell its called 9-2.
Or what about 3 years ago when Q Lebel came back from 7-4 to win 8-7 against WHL.

Do you just have selective memory and list the facts that help your argument?

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11-17-2003, 02:36 PM
  #64
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This is odviously an intense subject in the hearts of Fans from Different parts of Canada who think that their league is the best.

What I want to say is that the Q is a Fans kind of hockey. People love to watch the pure and exciting hockey that is being played in the league.
Defensemen that are allowed by and even encouraged to jump into the play offensively. Offensive flare and creativity with high scoring games and shut outs by top notch goaltenders. Fast ,skilled and physical all at the same time. Players have respect for each other and fighting is used to protect the young and skilled players so they are allowed to perform and virtually disappears as the year goes on. Fans that see Q games for the first time are reminded of the way hockey used to be and should be now. It's a great game embrace it.

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Old
11-17-2003, 03:41 PM
  #65
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I'm sure that if you play the memorial cup on an Olympic size rink, The Q wins it everytime.

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Old
11-17-2003, 04:47 PM
  #66
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Plus, Give Cape Breton back Fleury and you tell me who is going to win the Memorial cup then.

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Old
11-17-2003, 06:54 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Never said it was the kids fault. The problem is in the way the Q develops players. They are not adequately preparing defensemen and forwards for the NHL. I'm sure if many of these kids had played in the WHL or OHL there chances of developing NHL type skills would have been much greater.
I love this quote it really shows ignorance in all its glory. I just want to know how the QMJHL is not producing good quality forwards Alex Tanguay leading the NHL in points is from the QMJHL, Ladislav Nagy also another person who is in the top 5 in NHL scoring is from the QMJHL, Vincent Lecavalier is one of the most talented young players in the game...he is from the QMJHL and so is his other talented young teammate who is doing great ever since he came into the league in Brad Richards, Simon Gagne is one of the bright young stars on Philly gee he is from the QMJHL, Jason King who is scoring like nuts with Vancouver and if things keep going his way he might just win the Calder and he is from the QMJHL, Daniel Briere and J-p Dumont are two of Buffalos top players they are from the QMJHL, Patrice Bergeron is from the QMJHL and he is taking the Bruins by storm right now, Ales Hemsky is one of the bright stars in the game today and is already playing a pivital role with Edmonton and he is from the QMJHL, Phillipe Dupuis is from the QMJHL and he is one of the best players on the Wild, Georges Laraque is one of the best fitghters in the NHL today and is great and very valuble to the Oilers and is considered the best 3rd line player in the NHL, plus fighting stars such as Worrell, Dwyer, Shelley they all came from the QMJHL and are playing vital roles for their teams.

Fact is the QMJHL is producing some of the best talent in the NHL now, don't forget about past players like:

Bourque, Robitalle, Turgeron, Lemieux, Richer, Jimmy Carson, Damphousse, Desjardins, Roenick (played a little QMJHL), Gelinas, Martin Lapointe, Perreault, etc etc. the list goes on.

and for every Daniel Dore and Alexander Daigle in the QMJHL there are just as many from the OHL and WHL as well such as when talking about this we all forget about these so called superstars of the future:

Jason Bonsignor (suppose to be the next Mario, he is from the Sudbury Wolves..oh look at that someone to rival Daigle...from the oh mighty OHL)

Dave Chyzowski from the WHL he was suppose to be a phenome drafted 2nd overall to to only get 31 points in the NHL.

Scott Scissons 6th overall from the WHL great pick here only 2 NHL games 0 points.

Todd Warrinier of the OHL drafted really high had great expectations never really put out as expected

Steve Kelly from the WHL this offensive weapon was suppose to be one great NHL player?????

Chad Kilger, Brad Church, Sean Brown, Jeff Ware, Pevel Brendl, Alexander Volchenkov, Josh Holden, Daniel Tkaczuk, Daniel Cleary, Manny Malhotra.

Pat Falloon this guy was suppose to be the next big guy from the WHL and scoring phenome in the NHL.


What this proves is for every player who doesn't make it from the QMJHL there are just as many from the other leagues which everyone does not bring up. Also for some reason the QMJHLs past run and gun play is the only thing stuck in peoples minds and right now the QMJHL has some of the best young D-men in North America in Paquet, Carle, Bourdon. Plus also the crop in this years draft of Legault and Biega are among the most skilled in North America for their age. The Q is changing but peoples minds are not. Thing is IMO every league is equal since each league provides the game with a different player:

QMJHL: Scoring forward, great goalies

OHL: great power forward, good d-men

WHL: great defensemen both two way and defenseive d-men, hard working players, few goalies here and there.

Times are changing for the Q though maybe for the other leagues to I don't know since I don't see as many of the other leagues games as I would like to. But as for the QMJHL the past is past and what has been done is past, thing is now in the last few years the QMJHL has gotten stronger with the addition of the Maritimes to draft from and bigger players have been comming into the league, plus more USA and Euro players are comming over now giving the QMJHL players more talent to play against and now in the last few years the QMJHL has proved to be in the top of the ranks and on an equal level with the rest of the league so bringing up all this well Daigle and Dube and in the last 20 years this and that...well guess what times have changed the QMJHL is competitive now maybe some people thinking should change as well, but that might be asking for too much.

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Old
11-17-2003, 07:15 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosefan
I love this quote it really shows ignorance in all its glory. I just want to know how the QMJHL is not producing good quality forwards Alex Tanguay leading the NHL in points is from the QMJHL, Ladislav Nagy also another person who is in the top 5 in NHL scoring is from the QMJHL, Vincent Lecavalier is one of the most talented young players in the game...he is from the QMJHL and so is his other talented young teammate who is doing great ever since he came into the league in Brad Richards, Simon Gagne is one of the bright young stars on Philly gee he is from the QMJHL, Jason King who is scoring like nuts with Vancouver and if things keep going his way he might just win the Calder and he is from the QMJHL, Daniel Briere and J-p Dumont are two of Buffalos top players they are from the QMJHL, Patrice Bergeron is from the QMJHL and he is taking the Bruins by storm right now, Ales Hemsky is one of the bright stars in the game today and is already playing a pivital role with Edmonton and he is from the QMJHL, Phillipe Dupuis is from the QMJHL and he is one of the best players on the Wild, Georges Laraque is one of the best fitghters in the NHL today and is great and very valuble to the Oilers and is considered the best 3rd line player in the NHL, plus fighting stars such as Worrell, Dwyer, Shelley they all came from the QMJHL and are playing vital roles for their teams.

Fact is the QMJHL is producing some of the best talent in the NHL now, don't forget about past players like:

Bourque, Robitalle, Turgeron, Lemieux, Richer, Jimmy Carson, Damphousse, Desjardins, Roenick (played a little QMJHL), Gelinas, Martin Lapointe, Perreault, etc etc. the list goes on.

and for every Daniel Dore and Alexander Daigle in the QMJHL there are just as many from the OHL and WHL as well such as when talking about this we all forget about these so called superstars of the future:

Jason Bonsignor (suppose to be the next Mario, he is from the Sudbury Wolves..oh look at that someone to rival Daigle...from the oh mighty OHL)

Dave Chyzowski from the WHL he was suppose to be a phenome drafted 2nd overall to to only get 31 points in the NHL.

Scott Scissons 6th overall from the WHL great pick here only 2 NHL games 0 points.

Todd Warrinier of the OHL drafted really high had great expectations never really put out as expected

Steve Kelly from the WHL this offensive weapon was suppose to be one great NHL player?????

Chad Kilger, Brad Church, Sean Brown, Jeff Ware, Pevel Brendl, Alexander Volchenkov, Josh Holden, Daniel Tkaczuk, Daniel Cleary, Manny Malhotra.

Pat Falloon this guy was suppose to be the next big guy from the WHL and scoring phenome in the NHL.


What this proves is for every player who doesn't make it from the QMJHL there are just as many from the other leagues which everyone does not bring up. Also for some reason the QMJHLs past run and gun play is the only thing stuck in peoples minds and right now the QMJHL has some of the best young D-men in North America in Paquet, Carle, Bourdon. Plus also the crop in this years draft of Legault and Biega are among the most skilled in North America for their age. The Q is changing but peoples minds are not. Thing is IMO every league is equal since each league provides the game with a different player:

QMJHL: Scoring forward, great goalies

OHL: great power forward, good d-men

WHL: great defensemen both two way and defenseive d-men, hard working players, few goalies here and there.

Times are changing for the Q though maybe for the other leagues to I don't know since I don't see as many of the other leagues games as I would like to. But as for the QMJHL the past is past and what has been done is past, thing is now in the last few years the QMJHL has gotten stronger with the addition of the Maritimes to draft from and bigger players have been comming into the league, plus more USA and Euro players are comming over now giving the QMJHL players more talent to play against and now in the last few years the QMJHL has proved to be in the top of the ranks and on an equal level with the rest of the league so bringing up all this well Daigle and Dube and in the last 20 years this and that...well guess what times have changed the QMJHL is competitive now maybe some people thinking should change as well, but that might be asking for too much.

True ignorance is only listing a league's success stories and listing another league's bombs in order to support one's argument. Truth is more players are being drafted and making the NHL out of the WHL and the OHL than they are out of the QMJHL. The overall numbers don't lie. The Q has produced some great talents and some great bombs, like any other league and hockey area in the world, but they are not at the same level overall as the WHL and OHL. Here's some numbers to ponder. Between 1969 and 1997 the OHL had 23.7% of all drafted players, WHL 19.6% and the QMJHL 10.5%. US colleges were even ahead of the Q with 13.1% and US highschools just behind at 9.9%.

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Old
11-17-2003, 08:55 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Truth is more players are being drafted and making the NHL out of the WHL and the OHL than they are out of the QMJHL. The overall numbers don't lie. The Q has produced some great talents and some great bombs, like any other league and hockey area in the world, but they are not at the same level overall as the WHL and OHL. Here's some numbers to ponder. Between 1969 and 1997 the OHL had 23.7% of all drafted players, WHL 19.6% and the QMJHL 10.5%. US colleges were even ahead of the Q with 13.1% and US highschools just behind at 9.9%.
I'm of the opinion that the Q probably suffers in quality because of the reasons I have noted in previous posts. However, I wouldn't use draft numbers to confirm my suspicions.

Draft numbers don't mean squat. We'd have to look at actual *NHL careers* with some hindsight. I don't know if anyone is up for that and how one should proceed.

I suspect the from the late 80s and through the 90s will reveal a very poor record for the Q. That is a period of time where the NHL changed drastically and the Q (which already had deficiencies) did a crappy job at adjusting.

The last 5 years, thigs are improving and the NHL is changing. There's still work to do but it's better than it used to be on all fronts.

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11-17-2003, 08:58 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by FTK
I'm sure that if you play the memorial cup on an Olympic size rink, The Q wins it everytime.
I don't see why that would be so. Plus it's completely irrelevant since this discussion is focusing on the Q's ability to produce NHLers.

Teams in the NHL do not play on Olympic size rinks, BTW.

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11-20-2003, 05:22 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Anfernic
I don't know why but it seems that a lot of people think that the Q not in the same class as OHL and WHL.
Well, I think tonight's embarassing loss to the Russians might say something about the talent in the OHL vs. the QMJHL.

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11-20-2003, 05:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Well, I think tonight's embarassing loss to the Russians might say something about the talent in the OHL vs. the QMJHL.

You are basing your opinion on one game?

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11-20-2003, 06:08 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
True ignorance is only listing a league's success stories and listing another league's bombs in order to support one's argument. Truth is more players are being drafted and making the NHL out of the WHL and the OHL than they are out of the QMJHL. The overall numbers don't lie. The Q has produced some great talents and some great bombs, like any other league and hockey area in the world, but they are not at the same level overall as the WHL and OHL. Here's some numbers to ponder. Between 1969 and 1997 the OHL had 23.7% of all drafted players, WHL 19.6% and the QMJHL 10.5%. US colleges were even ahead of the Q with 13.1% and US highschools just behind at 9.9%.
Yup... No one here is saying that the Q does not produce elite talent (unlike some of you Q fans state) - quite the opposite. Considering that each of the three CHL leagues produce elite talent, there is a fine line. So making a list of all the success stories in the QMJHL doesn't add to the counterpoint.

I agree with you that draft figures do matter - yes, ultimately NHL is all that matters, but draft figures are rough indications of skill among junior-aged players - although they are somewhat misleading.

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11-20-2003, 07:06 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Well, I think tonight's embarassing loss to the Russians might say something about the talent in the OHL vs. the QMJHL.
Based on tonights game, goaltenders from the Q suck. If you want to base everything on 1 game the Belarus is a better hockey nation then Sweden.

We'll see what happens Monday in Rimouski.

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Old
11-20-2003, 07:38 PM
  #75
Aaron Vickers
FC Hockey
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Well, I think tonight's embarassing loss to the Russians might say something about the talent in the OHL vs. the QMJHL.
I dont think it was an embarassing loss at all...did you see the shots? Swap the goaltenders, and the Q would've been in double digits for this game in terms of goals.

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