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*Rumour* Big trade about to go down

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Old
08-18-2006, 02:56 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by dannoabram View Post
you underestimate colliton,2nd liner totally better than chipper, perez or plecanec

lol, you're kidding right?

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08-18-2006, 03:14 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
And Bergenheim...is a throw in.
Are you *&!*@ kidding?

If you don't know anything about a player, don't make a ******** comment about him. Bergenheim's value is head and shoulders above Martinik or Colliton. He is *THE* main asset going to Montreal in this trade.

Before you judge a trade, learn about the players involved.... calling a player like Bergenheim a 'throw in' shows a complete lack of ability to assess this deal. So do a little research if you want people to take you seriously.

I'd also recommend bookmarking this thread because if this trade goes down, Bergenheim will be your favourite Hab within two years.

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08-18-2006, 03:27 AM
  #103
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I could see Malkin getting moved in a Lindros type deal. They still have a generational talent in Crosby, an elite number 2 in Staal, and the Malkin return would help fill out the rest of the team.

But if he is moved, it would likely be to the WC. I can't see the Pens wanting to play against Malkin 4 times a year.

Oh and I agree, not a lot Montreal could offer up for a Malkin-type. I don't see them being serious contenders if Malkin is indeed on the market.

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08-18-2006, 03:30 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Are you *&!*@ kidding?

If you don't know anything about a player, don't make a ******** comment about him. Bergenheim's value is head and shoulders above Martinik or Colliton. He is *THE* main asset going to Montreal in this trade.

Before you judge a trade, learn about the players involved.... calling a player like Bergenheim a 'throw in' shows a complete lack of ability to assess this deal. So do a little research if you want people to take you seriously.

I'd also recommend bookmarking this thread because if this trade goes down, Bergenheim will be your favourite Hab within two years.
Well the fact is I think he said the deal without Bergenheim was a wash so having Bergenheim added to the trade would make it really good for him. Weird that people can't read between lines sometimes.

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08-18-2006, 04:49 AM
  #105
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Adding Bergenheim in certainly makes this a win for Montreal. We should not have to give up Bergie AND Colliton to get this done, both those guys are potential second line studs or at worst excellent, excellent all-around third liners with some scoring touch a la prime years Dave Scatchard. If this comes true, Habs fan, you will soon be chanting Bergie's name, believe me -- this guy has "fan favorite" written all over him clear as day.

I am a big, big fan of Komisarek and would be happy to get him, but to lose BOTH Bergie and Colliton for Komi and the 'honor' of paying Radek Bonk for one more year is just overpayment on our part -- taking on Bonk should be enough in exchange for Marty and one of Bergie or Colliton (preferably Colliton). As much as I love the idea of Komi in an Isles uni I will be sickened if this deal goes down.

BTW, to stoke some fuel to the insane Malkin side of this rumor's fire, Colliton played on a line with Crosby at the World's in the past, so he could have some attraction to Pitt. Also personally I think Pitt would be INSANE to trade Malkin unless he has told them he'd never report, take that for what it's worth.

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08-18-2006, 04:59 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Before you judge a trade, learn about the players involved.... calling a player like Bergenheim a 'throw in' shows a complete lack of ability to assess this deal. So do a little research if you want people to take you seriously.
So, Bergenheim is a Finnish, left handed centre with good speed and decent strength without being a particularly big player (NHL average height, slightly below NHL average weight), right? That sounds kinda familiar. Someones gonna ask the question at some point, may as well be me. How does he compare to Koivu? HF suggests he isn't a playmaker, but can he play a similar sort of fiesty game as Saku? Has he got a good shot (or range of shots?). Just curious if anyone can expand on the description on HF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
I'd also recommend bookmarking this thread because if this trade goes down, Bergenheim will be your favourite Hab within two years.
Really? More so than Koivu, Kovalev, A.Kostitsyn and Malkin? WOW!

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08-18-2006, 05:01 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Joe C. View Post
BTW, to stoke some fuel to the insane Malkin side of this rumor's fire, Colliton played on a line with Crosby at the World's in the past, so he could have some attraction to Pitt.
Colliton was pencilled in on the first line but he got hurt and never got to play with Crosby. Corey Perry replaced him.

So yank that log off the fire Joe...

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08-18-2006, 05:03 AM
  #108
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I'd say his game is very similar to Koivu's. Maybe bergenheim will have a little less offense with a little more physical play.

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08-18-2006, 05:11 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
. How does he compare to Koivu? HF suggests he isn't a playmaker, but can he play a similar sort of fiesty game as Saku? Has he got a good shot (or range of shots?). Just curious if anyone can expand on the description on HF?
It's a very good comparison. Bergenheim isn't as good of a playmaker and he's not as patient with the puck as Koivu is, and he doesn't seem like an outspoken leader-type, but he is a lot more of a crasher and banger than Koivu. If you call Saku fiesty, you'll be very impressed with Bergenheim.

Bergenheim is the type of player who is involved on EVERY single shift, game in and game out. He hits everything and chases down the puck carrier like a machine. He often stands out more than anyone else in the game because of the way he's always in on the play. That's why he's going to be a huge fan favourite. I hope it's as an Islander and not a Hab.

His offensive upside is about what Koivu is now. He's good with the puck and *can* beat players with his speed and hands (his first career NHL goal was a beauty - I wish I had a clip), but he's not good enough to do it all the time. He's smart that way though, he knows his limitations and can move the puck smartly. He's not as good of a playmaker as Koivu, but he has scoring ability. He's got more skill than most give him credit for. Sixty points is a fair, if not conservative, upside - but his game is so much more than point production. He's a real asset all over the ice and will be a great PK'er for a long time.

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08-18-2006, 05:33 AM
  #110
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I don't want to hijack this thread off on some Malkin argument, but it is mentioned as part of this rumor.

The basis of this rumor seems to be that Shero is from the same school as Poile - it's better to have several solid players on your roster who can score 15-20 goals, play some defense, and overall be a solid team from top to bottom than to have just one or two superstars putting up over 100 points. This is what this original poster on allducks.com said, and it's what I've read that Kevin Gibson and some others have said about this true.

That is all true, I think, and I also think that is a pretty solid way to build a team. It worked for Poile and it has worked in Edmonton and Buffalo as well. They are pointing out that we already have Crosby and that these two will become free agents at the same time. Again, this is a true statement, but we will not have to worry about that situation for 2-3 years at least. If anything, we might be trying to build a team around these guys while they are still a huge bargain for us. Financially, there is absolutely no reason to move Malkin right now. If we moved him (or Crosby, in theory) while he was going to become an RFA with still several years of service, the value would be almost exactly the same.

But anyways, let's just go on the assumption that Shero is open to moving Malkin and he would like to net a solid return of players who will help out now.

The main problem I have is with the Montreal players. It's a huge quantity for quality deal that often is proposed on this forum, and that's why I can't see it going down. For one thing, Souray and Aebischer will be UFAs after this season. We also have no use for Aebischer unless he or Thibault is moved in another trade. Fleury is the starter this year, which means we would be paying one of those guys 1.5 or 1.9 million to play in the AHL. Ryder is a pretty good young player who could score a lot of goals on Crosby's wing, but his defense is suspect to me, and he doesn't seem to be the kind of player that Shero would like to bring in. Souray is a good offensive defensemen, and is probably better defensively than a lot of our defensemen, but that doesn't say much, and he wouldn't help out that much for the whopping year he was here.

The only way I could see such a deal going down for those players is if Malkin was refusing to sign here (which makes no sense) and the other GMs knew it. Otherwise we have to start talking about much different names. Another thing: Shero has mentioned publically that he wants to bring in younger players in trades to add to this core of younger players we have now. None of those players are really in the target age group he mentioned.

So all of this frees up almost 10 million in cap space for the Habs, gives us a goalie we don't need, an offensive defensemen we don't need, a fairly one dimensional scoring winger, and a soft, one dimensional center? And all we have to give up is the best prospect in the league? If Shero is really talking with Gainey, the types of players he should be asking for are the Higgins' and the Kostsitsyn's, not Ribeiro and Aebischer.

If I was Shero and I wanted to deal Malkin, I think I would turn my attention to LA (this has absolutely nothing to do with Malkin currently being there). They have a very nice crop of prospects/young players at positions we need, and we would be sending Malkin out West.

When all is said and done, I believe there is almost no way Malkin is dealt before the season. Shero has talked about building this years team around Crosby and Malkin as the one and two centers, and his moves in the offseason have proven this. The second line center spot is basically non-existent without Malkin. Maybe Malkin could be dealt in two or three years, but again I'll say that we cross that bridge when we come to it.


As for this rumored Habs-Isles deal, I think it favors the Habs by a decent bit. Colliton+Bergenheim >> Komi, and those are the only assets in this deal that are really attractive. The deal doesn't make a lot of sense for the Isles.

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Old
08-18-2006, 05:34 AM
  #111
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Cheers for the responses Bunny Laraque and Le Goalie, sounds like a very interesting kid. Be interesting to see if this whole thing occurs but even if not, I wasn't particularly aware of Bergenheim before, might just keep a closer eye on him in the future though.

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08-18-2006, 05:58 AM
  #112
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Maybe I'm underrating Isles prospects but could someone enlighten me why Montreal would trade for #2/3 centers when they have Plekanec, Chipchura, Maxwell, Aubin, Lapierre, White and Juraj Mikus?
It's not like they're dying to get rid of Bonk, who looked ok centering Begin and Murray and is a solid penalty killer. Komisarek is currently playing on our first pairing is cheap and our only proven young defenseman and brings invaluable physical dimension on our blueline. If Habs would do that trade it would be for improving our depth at forward, but we don't need more depth, we could use more quality.


Last edited by Archijerej: 08-18-2006 at 06:03 AM.
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Old
08-18-2006, 06:05 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Archijerej View Post
Maybe I'm underrating Isles prospects but could someone enlighten me why Montreal would trade for #2/3 centers when they have Plekanec, Chipchura, Maxwell, Aubin, Lapierre, White and Juraj Mikus?
Because Gainey wants to improve his team and Bergenheim is likely going to be better than all of those players.

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Old
08-18-2006, 06:09 AM
  #114
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Wow....I didn't realize I was getting my own thread.

I'll pretty much say the same thing that I said on the AD site.

I found out at the last minute when I was working on the Vishnevski trade. I was on the phone with a few of my contacts from the Islanders. They had made a last minute push for Vishnevski, but it failed as we know. While on the phone this was mentioned to me as something they had in the fire. It wasn't this exact deal but close enough.

I didn't pay much attention to it as the evening wore on, but I was reading a couple of the other sites "yes Eklund and few others". So see it posted on those other sites so I followed up with a few people who I know in the Islanders organization "people who I am close too" and they told me that it had been completed as far as they knew pending medicals.

So I posted it as a rumour, but then the FAN590 in Toronto had made mention to the deal being done. I heard it because I always have my computer on streaming FAN590.

Bergenhiem is in Russia, but he has an out if he signs an NHL deal by August 31st.

So pending physicals and any other pitfalls am I sure this will be completed if not already done so...I hope so because a lot of people think it's a done deal.

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08-18-2006, 06:10 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Because Gainey wants to improve his team and Bergenheim is likely going to be better than all of those players.
By opening a hole on the blueline and trading for a guy that won't contribute to our team this season? BTW if Bergenheim is likely gonna be a better player than Plekanec then he must be seriously underrated by HF. Still your opinion would not be enough for me to make that trade.

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08-18-2006, 06:13 AM
  #116
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i just want to tell you guys not to harras him with PM's or crap like that.

ok?

i also forgot that he got the Fedorov trade to...

Nov. 15, 2005 @ 2:11 pm PST

"Just a heads up but it appears that Sergi Fedorov has been traded to the Columbus Blue Jackets for Tyler Wright and Francois Beauchemin. It is unofficial at this point but I would expect it too be announce soon."


I don't care if wildcat Jesus Christ. He isn't a reputable media source by HF's guidelines and therefore his rumors have no substance here. If something happens the thread can be re-opened.

If so someone can pm another mod to re-open the thread, don't count on me because I'm going to work soon.

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