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Greatest Goalie of All Time #6

View Poll Results: Who is the greatest goalie of all time? #6
Ken Dryden 39 38.61%
George Hainsworth 1 0.99%
Bill Durnan 4 3.96%
Martin Brodeur 28 27.72%
Vladislav Tretiak 19 18.81%
Bernie Parent 3 2.97%
Clint Benedict 0 0%
Turk Broda 0 0%
Billy Smith 4 3.96%
Johnny Bower 3 2.97%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-23-2006, 12:02 PM
  #1
canucksfan
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Greatest Goalie of All Time #6

Hall won with 28 votes and Johnny Bower will be added next. I am voting for Dryden and add Gardiner.

#1.Roy(40.70%)
#2.Sawchuk(36.00%)
#3.Plante(38.16%)
#4.Hasek(32.05%)
#5.Hall(37.84%)

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Old
08-23-2006, 12:13 PM
  #2
Bear of Bad News
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Vote Bower, add Vezina.

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Old
08-23-2006, 12:22 PM
  #3
Psycho Papa Joe
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I'm going to wait this one out and vote strategically. For me it's Dryden or Brodeur, but I have a feeling Tretiak will get alot of votes, so whoever's in a position to beat him, will get my vote. Add Fhur

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Old
08-23-2006, 12:24 PM
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Dryden likely had the greatest run of success of any goalie in NHL history. He won six Stanley Cups in eight trips to the playoffs, including the most important individual trophy of all, the Conn Smythe. In his seven full regular seasons, he won five Vezina Trophies, five first-team all-star selections, a second-team all-star selection and a Calder Trophy.

For those who argue that Dryden's success was a reflection of the team in front of him, keep in mind the Habs didn't win in the season he took off, and they didn't win for seven years after he retired.

And, if it matters any, his book The Game is the best book ever pertaining to hockey.

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Old
08-23-2006, 12:32 PM
  #5
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GBC just said everything I was going to say.

Dryden easily; there`s no way Brodeur is better.

Add Georges Vezina.

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Old
08-23-2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
I'm going to wait this one out and vote strategically. For me it's Dryden or Brodeur, but I have a feeling Tretiak will get alot of votes, so whoever's in a position to beat him, will get my vote. Add Fhur
Brodeur will continue to get his 20-plus votes. Most of Hall's support will shift to Dryden. It's just a matter of how much Hall support shifts to Dryden, how much goes to other goalies, and how much goes to Brodeur. I don't think Tretiak will enter into the equation, yet.

But Tretiak will likely be picked once Brodeur and Dryden are off the board.

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Old
08-23-2006, 04:05 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
For those who argue that Dryden's success was a reflection of the team in front of him, keep in mind the Habs didn't win in the season he took off, and they didn't win for seven years after he retired.
While I am not trying to dismiss Dryden's impact on the Canadiens, I think this logic is a bit flawed. During Dryden's year off Montreal turned to Michel Larocque, a rookie. Their fate that year doesn't say to me 'Dryden was sixth best all-time' as much as it says 'Dryden is a lot better than Michel Larocque.' Goaltending is the most important factor in a championship and without someone solid in net you don't stand much of a chance. The situation reminds me of the Sens run last year. When Hasek went down, I felt the Sens would put together a nice season but I didn't expect Emery to lead them to a cup.

As for after Dryden retired, there was another major change the Canadiens had to face, the loss of Scotty Bowman. Dryden is one of the best goalies ever and I doubt many other goalies would have had the same success with Montreal, but to discount the argument that his legacy owes a lot to playing for one of the most stacked teams ever is hard to swallow.

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Old
08-23-2006, 04:22 PM
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MArtin Broduer, and he'll end up with more wins then Roy.

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Old
08-23-2006, 04:38 PM
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Dryden.

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Old
08-23-2006, 04:38 PM
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Martin Brodeur.

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08-23-2006, 10:02 PM
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Hainsworth, add Brimsek

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Old
08-23-2006, 10:16 PM
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Dryden, add Gardiner.

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Old
08-23-2006, 10:27 PM
  #13
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Brodeur. I've been going with him all along.

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Old
08-23-2006, 10:56 PM
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Dryden

Broduer will comeday be #1 but not right now, wait til his career is over

Add Belfour soon

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Old
08-23-2006, 11:07 PM
  #15
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I always thought Brodeur was underrated but in this poll he's overrated. At this point in his career there is no way he is better than Dryden.

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Old
08-24-2006, 12:27 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
I always thought Brodeur was underrated but in this poll he's overrated. At this point in his career there is no way he is better than Dryden.
Let's take is easy with the Dryden is way better than Brodeur talk. Dryden has played a fraction of the games Brodeur has. Dryden's backups have a higher winning percentage than he does. Dryden's stats get worse in the playoffs. If you want to say Dryden is better, fine, but don't make it seems like there is no comparison between the two. Greatness includes being great for a long stretch of time and I would have loved to see what Dryden could have done over a longer career.

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Old
08-24-2006, 01:59 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meehan View Post
Let's take is easy with the Dryden is way better than Brodeur talk. Dryden has played a fraction of the games Brodeur has. Dryden's backups have a higher winning percentage than he does. Dryden's stats get worse in the playoffs. If you want to say Dryden is better, fine, but don't make it seems like there is no comparison between the two. Greatness includes being great for a long stretch of time and I would have loved to see what Dryden could have done over a longer career.
I don't see where canucksfan said "Dryden is way better than Brodeur." He said "At this point in his career there is no way he is better than Dryden." There's a world of difference.

I agree that longevity is part of greatness. But Dryden only had the most successful eight-year stretch in the history of the sport. And I would have loved to see what Dryden could have done over a long career, too. Hmmmmm, let's see. A flawless, technically sound, efficient, some might even say effortless, goaltending style. A winner's mentality. A great work ethic. Maybe the most poise and focus of any goalie, ever. Likely the best when facing 15, 20 or 25 shots a game. Yep, even better than Brodeur.

Dryden's stats get worse in the playoffs? Funny, last I checked, he won six Cups in eight years. Stats? Who cares about stats when you win six Cups in eight years. And he won a Conn Smythe. I don't care about GAA and save percentage in the playoffs. I care about one thing: winning. And in every Cup run, Dryden won the maximum 12 games. Need a big save? Dryden got it.

I'll take your word that Dryden's backups had a better winning percentage than he did. But your statement couldn't be more loaded. After all, I'm guessing those back-ups probably played against the Vancouvers, Washingtons and Kansas City/Colorados of the NHL, while Dryden played Buffalo, Boston, NYI, Philly and the other good teams.

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Old
08-24-2006, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I don't see where canucksfan said "Dryden is way better than Brodeur." He said "At this point in his career there is no way he is better than Dryden." There's a world of difference.

I agree that longevity is part of greatness. But Dryden only had the most successful eight-year stretch in the history of the sport. And I would have loved to see what Dryden could have done over a long career, too. Hmmmmm, let's see. A flawless, technically sound, efficient, some might even say effortless, goaltending style. A winner's mentality. A great work ethic. Maybe the most poise and focus of any goalie, ever. Likely the best when facing 15, 20 or 25 shots a game. Yep, even better than Brodeur.

Dryden's stats get worse in the playoffs? Funny, last I checked, he won six Cups in eight years. Stats? Who cares about stats when you win six Cups in eight years. And he won a Conn Smythe. I don't care about GAA and save percentage in the playoffs. I care about one thing: winning. And in every Cup run, Dryden won the maximum 12 games. Need a big save? Dryden got it.

I'll take your word that Dryden's backups had a better winning percentage than he did. But your statement couldn't be more loaded. After all, I'm guessing those back-ups probably played against the Vancouvers, Washingtons and Kansas City/Colorados of the NHL, while Dryden played Buffalo, Boston, NYI, Philly and the other good teams.
Voted Dryden, Add Gardiner.

GBC, you hit the nail on the head. Dyden had "maybe the most poise and focus of any goalie, ever" This was obvious from day one. His Conn Smythe winning performance agaist Boston & Chicago in 71 was probably the best I ever saw. He is probably the only player to win a Calder, the season after he won a Smythe.

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Old
08-24-2006, 06:36 AM
  #19
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Voted Dryden add Brimsek. To me the argument of Dryden's success is attributed to the team in front of him is void when comparing him to Brodeur and his trapping devils.

However, GBC, I preffer Roch Carrier's book "Our life with the Rocket" a bit better than "the Game".

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Old
08-24-2006, 07:40 AM
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Montreal goaltending during the Dryden years:

Player GP W L T W% Min GA SO GAA
Dryden 397 258 57 74 .758 23352 870 46 2.24
BU Total 258 158 52 35 .716 14690 677 17 2.77
BU Total+ 342 203 76 44 .697 19370 914 18 2.83
Thomas 10 8 1 0 .888 583 23 1 2.37
Larocque 137 96 18 18 .795 7942 348 13 2.63
Plasse 17 11 2 3 .781 932 40 0 2.58
Vachon 48 23 13 9 .625 2696 122 2 2.72
DeJordy 7 3 2 1 .583 332 25 0 4.52
Myre 39 17 16 4 .514 2205 119 1 3.24
+Including 73-74
Larocque+ 164 111 26 20 .771 9373 417 13 2.67
Plasse+ 32 18 6 5 .707 1771 97 0 3.29
Thomas+ 52 31 13 5 .684 2993 134 2 2.69
Playoffs (Sv-SOG-Sv%)
Dryden 112 80 32 .714 6846 274 10 2.40 (2953-3227 .915)
Larocque 7 2 4 .333 384 18 0 2.81(179-197 .909)


Last edited by BM67: 08-24-2006 at 10:45 AM.
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Old
08-24-2006, 07:51 AM
  #21
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I'll go with:

1A>Martin Brodeur
1AA>Ken Dryden

Both are great in every goaltending aspect and scenario but I'd give the very slight edge to Marty. IMO he was a shade better than Dryden and has remained a truly effective goaltender today.

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Old
08-24-2006, 10:24 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meehan View Post
Dryden's backups have a higher winning percentage than he does.
That's not particularly surprising. How many games did Dryden's backups play against the Bruins, the Flyers, and the other great teams of the day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meehan View Post
Dryden's stats get worse in the playoffs.
Most goaltenders' statistics do. On average, postseason opponents are better than regular-season opponents.

So what was your point with these two statements?

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Old
08-24-2006, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I don't see where canucksfan said "Dryden is way better than Brodeur." He said "At this point in his career there is no way he is better than Dryden." There's a world of difference.
From how I interpret that quote, I think he implies that there isn't any aspect of greatness in which Brodeur trumps Dryden, indicating that is no comparison between the two. I disagree as Brodeur has played in many more games even at this point in his career and as such, has proven a greater durability than Dryden.

Quote:
I agree that longevity is part of greatness. But Dryden only had the most successful eight-year stretch in the history of the sport. And I would have loved to see what Dryden could have done over a long career, too. Hmmmmm, let's see. A flawless, technically sound, efficient, some might even say effortless, goaltending style. A winner's mentality. A great work ethic. Maybe the most poise and focus of any goalie, ever. Likely the best when facing 15, 20 or 25 shots a game. Yep, even better than Brodeur.
We speculate about how good Dryden would be if he had a career the size of Brodeur's, but as there is no evidence proving he can be as durable, I will favor the player who has proven the ability to be great over a long stretch of time.

Quote:
Dryden's stats get worse in the playoffs? Funny, last I checked, he won six Cups in eight years. Stats? Who cares about stats when you win six Cups in eight years. And he won a Conn Smythe. I don't care about GAA and save percentage in the playoffs. I care about one thing: winning. And in every Cup run, Dryden won the maximum 12 games. Need a big save? Dryden got it.
You can't argue Dryden's success in the playoffs, however, guys like Broda, Roy, Smith, Fuhr, Brodeur all had their stats improve in the post season while Dryden's got worse; those are the fact, take what you will from them.

Quote:
I'll take your word that Dryden's backups had a better winning percentage than he did. But your statement couldn't be more loaded. After all, I'm guessing those back-ups probably played against the Vancouvers, Washingtons and Kansas City/Colorados of the NHL, while Dryden played Buffalo, Boston, NYI, Philly and the other good teams.
And exactly how is this different from most of the post expansion HOF calibur goaltenders? Do you think Brodeur misses games against the Flyers or Rangers, or Roy missed many games against Detroit and Dallas. When a team has an elite goaltender, the backup will mostly play against bad teams. Brodeur and Roy's backups had worse records, Dryden's had better records....again take what you will from that.

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Old
08-24-2006, 12:34 PM
  #24
meehan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
That's not particularly surprising. How many games did Dryden's backups play against the Bruins, the Flyers, and the other great teams of the day?
I mentioned this in my previous reply but Dryden isn't special in that backup goalies usually play against weaker teams than the starter. Not all backups end up with winning percentages better than the starter though.


Quote:

Most goaltenders' statistics do. On average, postseason opponents are better than regular-season opponents.

So what was your point with these two statements?
Again, I mentioned some of the greats like Broda, Smith, Fuhr, Brodeur all of whom had much better stats in the post season, unlike Dryden.

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Old
08-24-2006, 12:44 PM
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add Fuhr

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