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Old
08-29-2006, 10:34 AM
  #26
ChuckyToGally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaArGud View Post
Gagne will stay a Flyer; there have just been extenuating cirumstances delaying the contract talks namely talks with Pitkanen, Primeau's decision and now Clarkie out of town and in need of moving Nedved before he has sufficient room to sign Gagne.

Nedved will be moved, Gagne will be signed, Primeau will either return or give us some wiggle room to deal during the year when we get a look at the young talent, injury situation, etc.

And it would take something like Ryder, Souray and a pick IMO, hypothetically speaking.
Ryder, Souray and a pick... I'll give you a first man!

Deal!

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08-29-2006, 10:43 AM
  #27
ChuckyToGally
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A lot of you talked about Markov. To put him in a deal, Gainey will first have to make a move to acquire a top defenseman because Markov is the better d-man we have and by far. However, if Gainey could acquire let's say Brewer in a deal involving Ryder and maybe Souray, we could talk about trading Markov.

To Mtl: Simon Gagné

To Phi: Andrei Markov and Andrei Kostsitsyn

Deal?

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08-29-2006, 10:48 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
A lot of you talked about Markov. To put him in a deal, Gainey will first have to make a move to acquire a top defenseman because Markov is the better d-man we have and by far. However, if Gainey could acquire let's say Brewer in a deal involving Ryder and maybe Souray, we could talk about trading Markov.

To Mtl: Simon Gagné

To Phi: Andrei Markov and Andrei Kostsitsyn

Deal?
No way.

Gagne isn't leaving anyways, I don't see why you guys are so obsessed with the trade.

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08-29-2006, 11:01 AM
  #29
ChuckyToGally
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
No way.

Gagne isn't leaving anyways, I don't see why you guys are so obsessed with the trade.
Really?

I know you don't want Gagné to leave but you wouldn't accept that kind of return? You think you could get more?

And they say habs fans overrate their players. As much as I love Gagné, I think he's in the top ten of the overrated players in the league.

You're saying that a top 2 d-man and a first line potential youngster won't be enough?

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08-29-2006, 11:08 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Really?

I know you don't want Gagné to leave but you wouldn't accept that kind of return? You think you could get more?

And they say habs fans overrate their players. As much as I love Gagné, I think he's in the top ten of the overrated players in the league.

You're saying that a top 2 d-man and a first line potential youngster won't be enough?
No way, the deal I was throwing around earlier for fun was

To PHI: Markov, Ryder, 2nd
To MTL: Gagne, Meyer

For sure Gagne is overrated, but he is extremely valuable to our team and other teams would probably need to overpay for him to make a trade worthwhile.

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08-29-2006, 12:01 PM
  #31
ChuckyToGally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
No way, the deal I was throwing around earlier for fun was

To PHI: Markov, Ryder, 2nd
To MTL: Gagne, Meyer

For sure Gagne is overrated, but he is extremely valuable to our team and other teams would probably need to overpay for him to make a trade worthwhile.
I think I would make that deal honestly. Kost potential is better than Ryder IMO even if Ryder is an established player.

I don't know much about Meyer but it doesn't really matter.

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08-29-2006, 12:16 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
I think I would make that deal honestly. Kost potential is better than Ryder IMO even if Ryder is an established player.

I don't know much about Meyer but it doesn't really matter.
Meyer's a pretty decent young offensive defenseman. He's undersized, but he's a very good skater and has a nice offensive game. He had 27 points in 58 games last year for the Flyers and probably has the ability to be a 40 point defenseman in the NHL. He'll probably be a solid #4 defenseman.

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Old
08-29-2006, 12:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
No way, the deal I was throwing around earlier for fun was

To PHI: Markov, Ryder, 2nd
To MTL: Gagne, Meyer

For sure Gagne is overrated, but he is extremely valuable to our team and other teams would probably need to overpay for him to make a trade worthwhile.
A lots of Habs fans would say no to this deal. Markov is just as importat to Montreal as Gagne to Philadelphia. He is number 1.
I think I would do this deal.

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Old
08-29-2006, 01:06 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
ha-ha...


Kostsitsyn nowhere near ready, Perezhogin 3rd line player at this point, 2nd round pick not big deal. No, not fair.
Kostsitsyn is one year away from being 1st round failure in a very strong 2003 draft. He was drafted 10th guess who was drafted at number 11.
You do realize that Prucha did in one NHL year what Gagne couldn't do until his third. Score 30 goals. Basically he scored 20, 27, 33, 9, 24 and 47 goals and still has never broken 80 points. He's also shown the ability of getting hurt. Personally, I think Prucha and Gagne are similar players. If Renney had put Prucha on the first line with Jagr he would have had 40 goals. Gagne wasn't playing with 3rd line scrubs the first 15 games.

Not that the deal I proposed makes sense for either teams but you badly overrate Gagne. Thinking he will score 47 goals again is about as far fetched as expecting Gionta to get 48 again.

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08-29-2006, 01:21 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dupont08 View Post
You do realize that Prucha did in one NHL year what Gagne couldn't do until his third. Score 30 goals. Basically he scored 20, 27, 33, 9, 24 and 47 goals and still has never broken 80 points. He's also shown the ability of getting hurt. Personally, I think Prucha and Gagne are similar players. If Renney had put Prucha on the first line with Jagr he would have had 40 goals. Gagne wasn't playing with 3rd line scrubs the first 15 games.

Not that the deal I proposed makes sense for either teams but you badly overrate Gagne. Thinking he will score 47 goals again is about as far fetched as expecting Gionta to get 48 again.
I honestly don't think that post deserves a response besides .

There's this weird part of hockey, I know it's hard to understand, but it's called defense. It's what you play when the other team has the puck. There's a slight difference between Prucha and Gagne. Gagne can play defense, Prucha can't.

Gagne has been hurt once in 6 years. And I'd be willing to bet that Gagne breaks 40 goals again.

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Old
08-30-2006, 03:25 AM
  #36
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Some fair deals that I thought of, addressing both teams and salary:


Thomas Kaberle D TOR Simon Gagne LW
Matt Stajan RW

Janne Nininmaa D DAL Simon Gagne LW
Antti Miettinen LW

Derek Morris D PHO Simon Gagne LW
Fredrik Sjostrom RW

Anton Babchuk D CAR Simon Gagne LW
Erik Cole RW

Mike Komisarek D MONT Simon Gagne LW
Andrei Kostitsyn LW

Andrei Markov D MONT Simon Gagne LW
Sergei Perezhogin LW

Mike Cammaleri RW LA Simon Gagne LW
Brent Sopel D

David Legwand C NASH Simon Gagne LW
Ryan Suter D

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Old
08-30-2006, 05:35 AM
  #37
JerryGigantic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerwise View Post
Some fair deals that I thought of, addressing both teams and salary:


Thomas Kaberle D TOR Simon Gagne LW
Matt Stajan RW

Janne Nininmaa D DAL Simon Gagne LW
Antti Miettinen LW

Derek Morris D PHO Simon Gagne LW
Fredrik Sjostrom RW

Anton Babchuk D CAR Simon Gagne LW
Erik Cole RW

Mike Komisarek D MONT Simon Gagne LW
Andrei Kostitsyn LW

Andrei Markov D MONT Simon Gagne LW
Sergei Perezhogin LW

Mike Cammaleri RW LA Simon Gagne LW
Brent Sopel D

David Legwand C NASH Simon Gagne LW
Ryan Suter D
Nice work and strong proposals all. Get ready to get dumped on... As NO ONE is good enough to trade for Gagne.

Twin robot Gretzky-5000's, who never tire, age or injure themselves, but in all ways resemble humans, and possess all the skills of the original Great One at his peak... Would not be good enough to exchange for the rights to Simon Gagne. He's that "valuable to the team".

(C'mon Flyers... sign your girlfriend already... so these friggin' Gagne threads can finally stop...)

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08-30-2006, 06:53 AM
  #38
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Who is more important to your team.

Gagne or Forsberg??

Who could you do without??

Who would you be willing to replace those two with in the same $$$ value and know you can challenge for a cup??

I'm interested??

Forsberg will be a FA after this season and it looks like you're going to have Gagne pushing for a ONE year contract unless BC trades and pulls himself up to the bar. (bar set by Gagne and others within the league)

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Old
08-30-2006, 07:04 AM
  #39
Art Vandelay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharksDownUnder View Post
Gagne pushing for a ONE year contract unless BC trades and pulls himself up to the bar. (bar set by Gagne and others within the league)
Both parties have stated that they already have agreed to a 4-year deal.

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Old
08-30-2006, 07:48 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryGigantic View Post
Nice work and strong proposals all. Get ready to get dumped on... As NO ONE is good enough to trade for Gagne.

Twin robot Gretzky-5000's, who never tire, age or injure themselves, but in all ways resemble humans, and possess all the skills of the original Great One at his peak... Would not be good enough to exchange for the rights to Simon Gagne. He's that "valuable to the team".

(C'mon Flyers... sign your girlfriend already... so these friggin' Gagne threads can finally stop...)
anyone can be traded, ask gretzky. the deal with gagne is that he's expressed his desire to play his whole career for the Flyers, he's talented, fast and just entering his prime, he's not a problem player and has played anywhere from the third to the first line during his tenure. would he be hard to trade to get back equal value? with the cap now, hell yes. could he go, hell yes.

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Old
08-30-2006, 08:11 AM
  #41
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There is no one out there available in trade for Gagne that would be his equal in talent. And I will never argue his worth or whther his increase in stats is solely due to playing with Forsberg, because those issues are separate.

The facts are that in this salary cap new world,

1. if you can't afford it you don't buy it (ala JP dumont or the ridiculous price defensemen went for at the start of free agency).

2. An asset (player/pick/prospect) can not be judged on talent alone, you must factor in salary, first and foremost.

3. In many aspects the age of an asset is only relevant in regards to expiration of contract. (For example, Kyle Calder is a good YOUNG player, but he is still a UFA next year, so his age is irrelevant.)

Taking these things in mind, you have a "young" gagne, who may be asking for his going rate but if you can come close to filling his shoes as well as fill a glaring need, you would have to seriously look at dealing gagne, all the while knowing you will not receive an equal player back.

And as for the earlier suggestions of Andrei Markov and offensively gifted prospect Kostitsyn, if that was offered I think Clarke should take it. As for the deals I put in, I don't know how many of those I'd make, very few probably, but looking at capped teams or teams that would possibly make those deals/offers, I made them fair for both sides (Although rumors that Toronto offered Tellqvist, Antropov and Belak are much more plentiful)

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Old
08-30-2006, 08:58 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryGigantic View Post
Nice work and strong proposals all. Get ready to get dumped on... As NO ONE is good enough to trade for Gagne.

Twin robot Gretzky-5000's, who never tire, age or injure themselves, but in all ways resemble humans, and possess all the skills of the original Great One at his peak... Would not be good enough to exchange for the rights to Simon Gagne. He's that "valuable to the team".

(C'mon Flyers... sign your girlfriend already... so these friggin' Gagne threads can finally stop...)
Not all of us feel this way. He is 'valuable' to this team, no doubt, but he is not 'invaluable.'

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Old
08-30-2006, 09:37 AM
  #43
FlyHigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryGigantic View Post
Nice work and strong proposals all. Get ready to get dumped on... As NO ONE is good enough to trade for Gagne.

Twin robot Gretzky-5000's, who never tire, age or injure themselves, but in all ways resemble humans, and possess all the skills of the original Great One at his peak... Would not be good enough to exchange for the rights to Simon Gagne. He's that "valuable to the team".

(C'mon Flyers... sign your girlfriend already... so these friggin' Gagne threads can finally stop...)
Would those Gretzky's have Gagne's locker-room skills?

Seriously though, Gagne's value to the Flyers goes beyond his skills on the ice. He has essentially become the face of the club and he's one of the team leaders.

So basically, we need overpayment. It's just kind of a fact of life.

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08-30-2006, 10:37 AM
  #44
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I don't think we need overpayment, if we can address definate needs and get more than that, then that could be an equal not overpayment.

gagne is a good player, but is not a vocal leader or clubhouse guy like we hope richards will become. Lets not overvalue gagne as much as others undervalue him.

As another poster said Gretzky was invaluable on the ice and off the ice more so than gagne ever was and he was dealt for obvious an inferior package than I think we could get for gagne.

Gagne just like a draft pick is an asset, albeit a valuable one.

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