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Leetch or Chelios?

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Old
08-30-2006, 12:48 PM
  #26
dbbourn
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The Phil Housley thing was somewhat of a joke, but ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Housley

the third paragraph says...

Quote:
He is considered one of the best American defenseman ever, alongside fellow Americans Chris Chelios and Brian Leetch.
I got his autograph once... he is very small.

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Old
08-30-2006, 12:54 PM
  #27
Psycho Papa Joe
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I consider Chelios one of the 4 or 5 best d-men I have ever seen, along with Potvin, Robinson, Bourque and Lidstrom.

My personal all-time American defensive corps would be something along the lines of:

Chelios Leetch
Langway Howe
D.Hatcher Suter
Housley


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 08-31-2006 at 03:59 PM.
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Old
08-31-2006, 01:28 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbourn View Post
The Phil Housley thing was somewhat of a joke, but ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Housley

the third paragraph says...



I got his autograph once... he is very small.
So we should take everything Wilkpedia says as gospel? I respect the work that they do, but No. 3? No bloody way. Maybe they don't count Langway as American. I can understand that oversight. He often gets forgotten because he wasn't born in the U.S. But Langway might be the best defensive defenceman of the past 25 years.

I think Mark Howe is the best eligible defenceman not in the HHOF. I think he gets a little overrated at times because of that distinction, but I would take Howe ahead of Housley in an instant.

-Howe: Three first team all-star selections, key player on two teams that reached the final.
-Housley: One second-team all-star selection. His contributions to Washington in 1998 (his only trip to the final) were so meaningful that he was waived after the season.

BTW, there are two U.S. born defencemen in the Hall: pre-NHL star Si Griffiths, who captained Vancouver to the 1915 Stanley Cup, and Billy Burch, the first American to ever win the Hart Trophy.


Last edited by God Bless Canada: 08-31-2006 at 01:38 AM.
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Old
08-31-2006, 09:55 AM
  #29
dbbourn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
So we should take everything Wilkpedia says as gospel?
No, but I respect the points Housley put up. I wasn't arguing the point that Housley deserves to be mentioned with the other 2 in this thread, but I am still not denying the fact that Housley helped put the puck in the net. As far as the other 2 you have mentioned in Langway and Howe I really can't comment. I know who they are, but they were winding down their careers when I started becoming a big hockey fan. Not fair for me to judge them in the twilight of their respective careers.

You can edit the wikipedia article if you want.

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08-31-2006, 02:21 PM
  #30
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add another vote for chelios.

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Old
09-01-2006, 12:56 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transported Upstater View Post
Chelios. One of the Top 3 American players ever, and a Top 15 D-man all-time, easily.

His overall talent was mainly due to his youth hockey coach, Jules Winnfield.

For sure. Chelios for me.

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Old
09-01-2006, 06:05 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Not only is Housley way out of Chelios and Leetch's league, he's not even in the top three for U.S. defencemen. Even though John Flyers Fan will disagree with me on this one, the No. 3 US defenceman ever was Rod Langway. (Langway was born in Taiwan but he played his developmental hockey in the U.S.). In fact, I'd have Leetch and Langway very close. Leetch wins because he did more in the playoffs. No. 4 is Mark Howe. Then maybe, just maybe, you'd have Phil Housley.
Give me Howe 8 days a week over Langway, who also has to share the brunt of Caps playoffs failures along with Gartner and Bryan Murray.

Both were outstanding defensively, Langway being more physical, and a bit better, but Howe was so clearly better offensively and all-aound.

Gove me Propp and Howe, and you can have the Hall of Famers Langway and Gartner, and I know my team will be smiling during the hand shake every time.

As to the question, in their prime it was very very close, but Chelios' prime lasted at least 15 years, while Leetch's was no more than 5.


Chelios is the best American player of all-time.

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Old
09-01-2006, 06:12 PM
  #33
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Chelios was better defensively and tougher. But I never saw a player take over a Stanley Cup Finals (I'm 23, so I'm fairly young) the way Leetch did in 1994. Amazing.

I still take Chelios. He will likely get his number retired by 3 Original Six franchises, definitely 2 (Montreal and Detroit/Chicago).

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Old
09-05-2006, 06:45 PM
  #34
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I'm gonna go with Chelios. He was just so dominate in his prime. He had a very nice offensive game, was great defensively and was one of the nastiest SOB of the time. You'd fear having your superstar on the ice with him for what he might do to the guy then just to add insult to injury he'll skate down the ice and score the game winning goal against your team. I never hated a player more than i hated Chris Chelios when he was a blackhawk and it took a long time for me to even cheer for him as a Wings fan. But the guy was one of the best blueliners ever. And what he does to stay in shape to play in his mid 40's is just amazing, the guy is a freak of nature.

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Old
09-05-2006, 07:50 PM
  #35
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Chelios any day of the week.

I love Leetch and he'll always be a Ranger, but you've gotta look at the question without any bias.

Although I do think it's a hell of a lot closer than some people are making it out to be.

And Leetch only being in his prime for 5 years? Are you nuts, John?

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Old
09-05-2006, 08:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Wilson View Post
Chelios was better defensively and tougher. But I never saw a player take over a Stanley Cup Finals (I'm 23, so I'm fairly young) the way Leetch did in 1994. Amazing.

I still take Chelios. He will likely get his number retired by 3 Original Six franchises, definitely 2 (Montreal and Detroit/Chicago).
Montreal certainly won't retire his number, and I don't see why Detroit would either. Chicago should, but I get the impression he didn't leave on the best of terms.

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Old
09-11-2006, 12:35 AM
  #37
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Chelios then, and now. Leetch is an excellent player but chelios bring too many intangiables to the table that make winning teams.

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09-11-2006, 01:07 AM
  #38
CM Lundqvist
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- Chelios played with some of the better defense corps of our generation. Chelios, Keith Brown, Gary Suter, Eric Weinrich, Steve Smith, Nicklas Lidstrom, Larry Murphy, Derian Hatcher... The two best Leetch ever got to play with were Zubov and Lowe, and it was Lowe on the slide. Chelios ALWAYS had a better supporting cast, and that won Chelios that one or two Norris trophies needed to put him over Leetch. Leetch was ROBBED of the 01 Norris because of the fact that he had CRAP to play with on defense. What if Leetch had as good of a supporting cast on defense?

- Leetch on his best day was better than Chelios on his best day. Why? Leetch could DOMINATE a game at both ends of the ice. Leetch could jump into the play offensively, and help score or score the goal himself, and then if the goal wasn't scored, could get right back on defense and break the play up by himself. Leetch just might be the best defenseman ever in a 2-on-1 situation... no one could break up 2-on-1's like Leetch. Chelios got his points moreso from the power play and his big shot. He wasn't all that offensively talented. Makes a great first pass out of the zone, not many make a better first pass than he does, but he nearly doesn't have the offensive skill that Leetch has. Although Chelios' all-around physical game is FAR BETTER, there's only one guy that throws a better hipcheck than Brian Leetch, and that's the man that MASTERED the hipcheck himself, Brad Park.

- Leetch won a Conn Smythe in 94. It may have been his only cup, but Chelios won 2 cups, and wasn't even the most important player in either of the playoffs. I'm not saying the 86 Canadiens or the 02 Wings would have won without him - although I believe the 02 Wings probably could have with how stacked that team was - Leetch was far more important to his winning team than Chelios was. Chelios always had more to work with, and Leetch never got to enjoy that luxury for as long as Chelios did.

- Leetch also won a Calder Trophy, and is one of A HANDFUL of defenders to score 100 points in a season. Only FIVE defenders have done that... Orr, Potvin, Coffey, MacInnis, and Leetch, who was the latest to do so in 92.

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Old
09-11-2006, 05:53 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
- Chelios played with some of the better defense corps of our generation. Chelios, Keith Brown, Gary Suter, Eric Weinrich, Steve Smith, Nicklas Lidstrom, Larry Murphy, Derian Hatcher... The two best Leetch ever got to play with were Zubov and Lowe, and it was Lowe on the slide. Chelios ALWAYS had a better supporting cast, and that won Chelios that one or two Norris trophies needed to put him over Leetch. Leetch was ROBBED of the 01 Norris because of the fact that he had CRAP to play with on defense. What if Leetch had as good of a supporting cast on defense?

- Leetch on his best day was better than Chelios on his best day. Why? Leetch could DOMINATE a game at both ends of the ice. Leetch could jump into the play offensively, and help score or score the goal himself, and then if the goal wasn't scored, could get right back on defense and break the play up by himself. Leetch just might be the best defenseman ever in a 2-on-1 situation... no one could break up 2-on-1's like Leetch. Chelios got his points moreso from the power play and his big shot. He wasn't all that offensively talented. Makes a great first pass out of the zone, not many make a better first pass than he does, but he nearly doesn't have the offensive skill that Leetch has. Although Chelios' all-around physical game is FAR BETTER, there's only one guy that throws a better hipcheck than Brian Leetch, and that's the man that MASTERED the hipcheck himself, Brad Park.

- Leetch won a Conn Smythe in 94. It may have been his only cup, but Chelios won 2 cups, and wasn't even the most important player in either of the playoffs. I'm not saying the 86 Canadiens or the 02 Wings would have won without him - although I believe the 02 Wings probably could have with how stacked that team was - Leetch was far more important to his winning team than Chelios was. Chelios always had more to work with, and Leetch never got to enjoy that luxury for as long as Chelios did.

- Leetch also won a Calder Trophy, and is one of A HANDFUL of defenders to score 100 points in a season. Only FIVE defenders have done that... Orr, Potvin, Coffey, MacInnis, and Leetch, who was the latest to do so in 92.
Perhaps, especially in the 1994 playoffs. But Chelios in Chicago was very dominant arguably as dominant as Leetch ever was. Still Chelios was an elite top defenceman from 84-85 through 2001-02. That is a far longer period than Leetch was an elite defenceman. 18 years among the top D-Men in the game and still quite effective today. Chelly was a better player than Leetch IMO.

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Old
09-16-2006, 03:20 PM
  #40
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Chelios quite handily. Better all-around player, better defensive player, equal offensive player (when he wants to be). No, he couldn't carry the puck quite as well, but he had a better, smarter shot from the point, and was at least as good at breaking out of the zone. Factor in the physical havoc he created and the intimidation, and he is quite a ways ahead in my book.

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09-16-2006, 03:56 PM
  #41
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Chelios by a comfortable margin in my book, and I hate his guts. He has always seemed like a genuine horse's *** to me, but a fine player regardless.

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Old
10-23-2006, 04:19 PM
  #42
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The difference is Chelios can play defence

Chelios = HHOF
Leetch will never make it

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10-23-2006, 04:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SniperMogilny2K6 View Post
The difference is Chelios can play defence

Chelios = HHOF
Leetch will never make it
Wow. Leetch will get in fairly easily. He's a two-time Norris winner and a five-time all-star. He has a Cup, a Conn Smythe and a Calder. He was pretty much one of the game's pre-eminent offensive defenceman, often the pre-eminent offensive defenceman, from 1988-2004. Will he be mentioned in the same breath as Denis Potvin for an all-round blue-line threat? No. But he is one of the top 25 ever, and a sure-fire HHOFer who will get in on the first ballot, unless he comes up against a class of 2007 proportions.

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10-23-2006, 07:23 PM
  #44
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Chelios by a mile.

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Old
10-23-2006, 07:38 PM
  #45
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Chelios by a mile.
yup.

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Old
10-23-2006, 08:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SniperMogilny2K6 View Post
The difference is Chelios can play defence

Chelios = HHOF
Leetch will never make it


Chelios far and away was the better defenseman, but Leetch is a sure fire first-ballot HOFer. LOL.

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Old
10-23-2006, 08:44 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SniperMogilny2K6 View Post
The difference is Chelios can play defence

Chelios = HHOF
Leetch will never make it
Haha, good one. Leetch is an automatic in.

But he's not as good as Chelios.

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Old
10-23-2006, 11:24 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SniperMogilny2K6 View Post
The difference is Chelios can play defence

Chelios = HHOF
Leetch will never make it
I see you have brought your act to the best board on this site, prepare to be laughed off mercilessly.

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Old
10-27-2006, 12:48 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra View Post
Chelios.
By a pretty wide margin I'd say.....

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Old
10-27-2006, 12:50 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SniperMogilny2K6 View Post
The difference is Chelios can play defence

Chelios = HHOF
Leetch will never make it
Both are HHOF bound.... but as far as all time greats go its Chelios.

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