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Must productive seasons for the Pack

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Old
08-29-2006, 05:11 PM
  #1
dupont08
 
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Must productive seasons for the Pack

I was thinking about the players who must have a very productive season for the Pack this year to prove they are a legit NHL prospect.

1. Jessiman - Obviously this is a no brainer. He needs to score 25 G and 50 points at the least. The team should be strong around him.
2. Callahan - Considering he was an over-age player in the OHL, I don't think he has any time to waste developing in the AHL. He needs to put up numbers similar to Genoway.
3. Baranka - If he doesn't make the big club I'd like to see him step up his game and chip in 35-40 points this year.
4. Korpikoski - I would say if he doesn't score 15 G, 20 A people are going to label him a bust for a first round pick.
5. Graham - I think it's important for him to start showing he is getting an idea of what to do with his size. Similar to Jessiman but with less offensive expectations.

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08-29-2006, 05:20 PM
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I agree with all except Baranka and Korpikoski.

Baranka is just not a point scoring defenseman, his ability has never and will never be based around points.

It simply is not fair to ask him to score 35 or even 40 points. If his MO was as an offensive defenseman than yes, but he's not.

As for Korpikoski, I don't think he becomes a first round bust if he isn't a huge scorer this season. I don't think we can say Jessiman has until he's 22/23 before he's a bust and write Korpikoski off for not scoring before he's even old enough to drink.

The kid is BARELY 20 years old, if he needs a little time than he needs a little time.

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08-29-2006, 05:26 PM
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Callahan has to put up 61 points in 78 games? Why is that? Genoway was on the top line all season and played extremey well with Dawes and Dwight. Callahan might be getting 3rd line minutes and used in a checking line role.

Lets not forget Cally is just 21 years old and wont hit 22 till the end of the season. I dont see the big rush on him because he played 1 extra year of Juniors.

If he puts up 40 points his first year I will be pleased.

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08-29-2006, 05:31 PM
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And to me Callahan doesn't project as a top 2 line forward ( i know there will be some disagreement with that).

Callahan's upside to me is a third line player with some scoring, not quite a second liner on a good team. As such I think the 40 point range would be a respectable rookie season for a player with that kind of upside.

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08-29-2006, 05:34 PM
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good posts guys, i agree

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08-29-2006, 05:35 PM
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I agree with Edge about Baranka. If he played a full season in Hartford, he should be able to put up 30 points or so (that's about what he was on pace for last season) but his value isn't really as a point producer, but as a solid, physical defenseman who can move the puck up the ice.

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08-29-2006, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
And to me Callahan doesn't project as a top 2 line forward ( i know there will be some disagreement with that).

Callahan's upside to me is a third line player with some scoring, not quite a second liner on a good team. As such I think the 40 point range would be a respectable rookie season for a player with that kind of upside.
I consider Callahan to be a much better talent than Genoway so I would expect he would be on one of the top 2 lines and should produce offensively.

Baranka put up 13 points in his last 15 games before he got hurt. He really started to pick up his offense. I know that isn't his strength but I think he can develop his offense nicely this year. His 21 points in less than 60 games was actually similar to the type of offense Tyutin put up in the AHL pace wise. Tyutin's 59 points in the OHL came on a decent offensive team. Baranka's WHL was horrible offensively so his numbers there weren't great.

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08-29-2006, 06:08 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by dupont08 View Post
I consider Callahan to be a much better talent than Genoway so I would expect he would be on one of the top 2 lines and should produce offensively.

Baranka put up 13 points in his last 15 games before he got hurt. He really started to pick up his offense. I know that isn't his strength but I think he can develop his offense nicely this year. His 21 points in less than 60 games was actually similar to the type of offense Tyutin put up in the AHL pace wise. Tyutin's 59 points in the OHL came on a decent offensive team. Baranka's WHL was horrible offensively so his numbers there weren't great.
I think you have to be careful with Callahan's numbers from juniors. He's more of a lower talent - high effort kind of guy who will do well when the opposition is lesser, but might struggle as he plays against tougher players.

To be honest I'm looking to see how they use him in Hartford and expect that he'll be called on to help play against some of the opposition's better lines and on the PK. If he can round out his game, then I think you've got a guy who could be a useful 3rd/4th line type of guy at the NHL level.

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08-29-2006, 06:27 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by dupont08 View Post
I consider Callahan to be a much better talent than Genoway so I would expect he would be on one of the top 2 lines and should produce offensively.

Baranka put up 13 points in his last 15 games before he got hurt. He really started to pick up his offense. I know that isn't his strength but I think he can develop his offense nicely this year. His 21 points in less than 60 games was actually similar to the type of offense Tyutin put up in the AHL pace wise. Tyutin's 59 points in the OHL came on a decent offensive team. Baranka's WHL was horrible offensively so his numbers there weren't great.
I just don't see Baranka as that type of guy really. I think 30 points at the AHL level is kind of at his top end, but I say that in the hopes that if he "only" nets say 25 that people don't take it as a step down.

Baranka, like a guy like Helminen at center, is not really about offensive numbers. Now if he gets them as a bonus that's fine, but we have to be somewhat careful about the expectations and what might be considered "success" or "failure" under those expectations.

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08-30-2006, 01:22 AM
  #10
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My top 5 to watch:

5. Zdenek Bahensky - I wish he was on a NHL contract, this might motivate him play well and earn the NHL contract. He has grit and is pretty physical.


4. Lee Falardeau - I think he will have a good 2ed ahl season, I think hed be a good idea for a callup if he plays well, when Betts gets hurt.


3. Dane Byers - I feel he will do very well, he is a big guy who does the dirty work in the corners, if played with a guy like Helminen, he can do very well.


2. Hugh Jessiman - He must be consistant in playing physical and and work hard down low. He might help the PP, he can screen the goalies.


1. Al Montoya - He must stay healthy and have a good start. Lets hope he dont get hurt in training camp.

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08-30-2006, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
My top 5 to watch:

5. Zdenek Bahensky - I wish he was on a NHL contract, this might motivate him play well and earn the NHL contract. He has grit and is pretty physical.


4. Lee Falardeau - I think he will have a good 2ed ahl season, I think hed be a good idea for a callup if he plays well, when Betts gets hurt.


3. Dane Byers - I feel he will do very well, he is a big guy who does the dirty work in the corners, if played with a guy like Helminen, he can do very well.


2. Hugh Jessiman - He must be consistant in playing physical and and work hard down low. He might help the PP, he can screen the goalies.


1. Al Montoya - He must stay healthy and have a good start. Lets hope he dont get hurt in training camp.


Interesting but to me some of those guys don't have to have very productive seasons. Goalies really can come up older than other positions. If Montoya came up at 24 it wouldn't really bother me so I don't think this is a make or break year for him. Byers and Farladeau are 2 guys I don't think are legit NHL prospects so I expect nothing from them. Bahensky to me really wasn't even an impressive WHL player so to expect him to have a productive AHL season doesn't make much sense.

I repeat, Falardeau should never see a minute of NHL ice time with our organization. If we call him up that is a sign of 2 possible things. Our coaching staff is retarded or our farm system is half as good as we think it is. I watched enough guys on our lower lines last year who couldn't score. It's enough

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08-30-2006, 07:00 AM
  #12
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have you ever seen him play?

He is not terrible, he is a big defensive center with good skating and started to use his body better.

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08-30-2006, 07:17 AM
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have you ever seen him play?

He is not terrible, he is a big defensive center with good skating and started to use his body better.
Yes. I have seen him play. He stinks. We don't need big defensive centers who can't SCORE. Prospects like Falardeau were the type of garbage we had to hope for when we didn't have a deep farm system. Those guys no longer cut it with the talent and depth we have in the farm system. We don't need players like Ward, Betts and Hossa any longer. We won't need good ol' Jed either soon.

This team isn't going to be build like a lot of other teams with 2 big lines, a little offense from the 3rd line and none from the 4th. This team probably will start to become Buffalo like. Four lines that can score because of our incredible depth in the farm system.

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08-30-2006, 10:52 AM
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He is not terrible, he is a big defensive center with good skating and started to use his body better.
He played wing for the majority of last season.

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08-30-2006, 11:46 AM
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dupont08 you obviously have no idea what you are talking about... I'm not even going to comment except to say that I hope Falardeau makes it out of camp and with Orts out it is very possible.

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08-30-2006, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Taz View Post
have you ever seen him play?

He is not terrible, he is a big defensive center with good skating and started to use his body better.
As stated he was used as a wing, and frankly I wasn't that impressed myself.

I see a guy who is really on the below average side of the AHL spectrum, and unless he's one of the top fighters in the league that's usually not going to get you to the NHL.

With some of the guys coming to Hartford this season, I don't see that changing.

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08-30-2006, 11:48 AM
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Falardeau has continued to make progress since he turned pro. Whether or not he'll continue to make enough that he'll have an NHL career is an unknown at this point in time but he is a decent prospect and IMO somewhat comparable to a player like Betts. I agree Jessiman has to have better number and he needs to become enough of a force to work his way onto the top 2 lines. Whether he scores 25 goals or for that matter 15 goals--somewhere around 45 points would make me happy. I want him contributing. Baranka's mindset is a stay at home. You should throw away point predictions for defensemen of his type. Callahan is a first year pro. It would be nice if he could get regular ice time on the top lines but I'm not counting on it. Korpikoski as Edge said it--is still a kid--moreover one with an overall game that really doesn't project him to one day being a big scorer but an all around player who does pretty much everything well. I have seen Graham in person last year. He's at least a couple years away. He is 6'6" but I'm not sure he even weighs 200 lbs. and before you go looking up some database info that says he weighs this or that--let me say he's scrawny. He has to fill out and I don't believe he's going to be a difference maker until he does.

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08-30-2006, 11:58 AM
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dupont08 you obviously have no idea what you are talking about... I'm not even going to comment except to say that I hope Falardeau makes it out of camp and with Orts out it is very possible.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.

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08-30-2006, 12:07 PM
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dupont08 you obviously have no idea what you are talking about... I'm not even going to comment except to say that I hope Falardeau makes it out of camp and with Orts out it is very possible.
You seem to be the sole torch-bearer for Falardeau. Were you friends in college? Not to open up the very useless debate, but your opinion of him is very much in the minority. I would say that the chances of him playing wing on the 4th line to open the season is extremely slim.

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08-30-2006, 12:15 PM
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Falardeau has continued to make progress since he turned pro. Whether or not he'll continue to make enough that he'll have an NHL career is an unknown at this point in time but he is a decent prospect and IMO somewhat comparable to a player like Betts.

That's probably the only point I'd really disagree with.

The thing is that even guys like Betts, had shown more at the lower levels. A guy like Helminen is someone who you can point to and say "He did this at the AHL level".

Lee hasn't really done that, at least not to the point of even being a decent prospect.

He's been outplayed by players ranging from free agent signings to lower picks and even guys playing a similar defensive center role (Helminen and even Betts). He's not one anyones radar at this point and outside of at one time being a second round pick, has not anything to make himself standout aside from the those who remember where he was drafted.

With the 03-05 kids coming in the next few years and Lee turning 23, and with who the Rangers have in their system, I really don't think he's part of the long term plans.

I've seen far better players than Lee not make it.

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08-30-2006, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by msuhockey View Post
dupont08 you obviously have no idea what you are talking about... I'm not even going to comment except to say that I hope Falardeau makes it out of camp and with Orts out it is very possible.
Okay, but do you want to explain your belief rather than just the random:

"You clearly don't know anything and Lee will make it" type comment?

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08-30-2006, 12:23 PM
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I just feel he is a good player who is constantly getting bashed. I don't know if he will start the season in the NHL but I do know that he will play there at some point whether it is with the Rangers or not. I just find it very amusing that people can knock players and refer to them as "garbage" when they have no idea what they are really talking about. The funny part is that you and I can sit here all day and debate who will make it and who wont but our opinion doesn't really matter does it? Because we don't know what the coaches are looking for or what the players have been working on all summer.

All I'm saying is that Lee (or any other player that attends camp) has a chance of making the team because they are good enough to be at camp in the first place. It is just crazy to write guys off, obviously the Rangers see potential in guys like Falardeau and Jessiman (who is also always getting ripped apart) othewise they wouldnt have signed them to professional contracts.

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08-30-2006, 12:35 PM
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All I'm saying is that Lee (or any other player that attends camp) has a chance of making the team because they are good enough to be at camp in the first place.
Wasn't Robin "Big Snake" a camp invitee last year? I do not think that there was a single person who thought that he would make it. If your point is from the "Well he is good enough to be invited to camp, so anything is possible" prespective, then I understand. However possibilities and probabilities are two entirely different things. Sure anything CAN happen. Dawes is going to be in camp. He COULD make the team as a top-liner. Pock COULD make the team as one of the 6 defensemen.

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08-30-2006, 12:36 PM
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I just feel he is a good player who is constantly getting bashed. I don't know if he will start the season in the NHL but I do know that he will play there at some point whether it is with the Rangers or not. I just find it very amusing that people can knock players and refer to them as "garbage" when they have no idea what they are really talking about. The funny part is that you and I can sit here all day and debate who will make it and who wont but our opinion doesn't really matter does it? Because we don't know what the coaches are looking for or what the players have been working on all summer.
At the end of the day it is all opinion, and I don't think you'll find anyone claiming otherwise.

People have given their reasons, and very valid ones for their opinions. Whether or not one agrees with those opinions is fine, but one can't deny that they've presented things to back their opinion up.

You're right we don't know what the Rangers are looking for, but it also doesn't take a stretch to realize that a guy who is 23 on a team stacked with players who have done more in the same role is in trouble. People who've seen the Hartford games, people who have watched players with similar "defensive" roles have performed better. You might not agree with it, but there's a lot of evidence and oberservations that people can draw from.

Quote:
All I'm saying is that Lee (or any other player that attends camp) has a chance of making the team because they are good enough to be at camp in the first place. It is just crazy to write guys off, obviously the Rangers see potential in guys like Falardeau and Jessiman (who is also always getting ripped apart) othewise they wouldnt have signed them to professional contracts.

Everyone has a chance, the question is do they have a GOOD chance. Heck the undrafted kid out of juniors has a chance, but would you hold you put money on it? That's really what it comes down to and that's how many people feel, in fact that's how the majarity feel after watching and observing Lee for a few years.

As for seeing potential, the Rangers were somewhat between a rock and a hard place. Without a first and with a third round pick who didn't pan out at ALL from that draft, they almost had to take a chance with something, even if the odds were pretty low.

Not like they had an abundance of contracts coming out of the draft, which right now is only being held up by Prucha from being a total disaster.

But that's still becomes a mute point because after the contract there hasn't been a whole lot to write home about. Whether the reasons sound nice or not, there is something to them or else they'd be dismissed.

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08-30-2006, 12:38 PM
  #25
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Wasn't Robin "Big Snake" a camp invitee last year? I do not think that there was a single person who thought that he would make it. If your point is from the "Well he is good enough to be invited to camp, so anything is possible" prespective, then I understand. However possibilities and probabilities are two entirely different things. Sure anything CAN happen. Dawes is going to be in camp. He COULD make the team as a top-liner. Pock COULD make the team as one of the 6 defensemen.
Bingo True. There are always prospects invited to camp that management believes won't be a part of their future. I don't believe management thinks Pock has any part of this teams future with the other defenseman they have drafted. However, he will be there. I don't believe they every thought Wiseman was going to be a part of their future. He was there and had a great camp. Never got a chance.

I also totally agree with Edge on Falardeau. He hasn't proven anything compared to a kid like Helminen. Dwight was a defensive standout in college and now has scored 30 goals in the AHL. Lee hasn't done squat other than improve his defensive play. Big deal. The Rangers have spent the last 3 years drafting hard working, defensively responsible players with offensive skills. It's nice that Lee works hard. However, there are probably about 35 hard working players in our farm system that have a lot more skill and upside than he does.

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