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Can we really win the Cup???

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Old
08-31-2006, 03:29 PM
  #1
EJsens1
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Can we really win the Cup???

Does the team, franchise really have the ability to win the Cup???

We've been labelled true Stanley Cup contenders for about 4-5 years now IMO. In 2002-03, we had a great year and frankly, I thought we were the best team in the league that year and New Jersey was fortunate to beat us, fair and square however. I thought after that, we'd win a cup within the next 2-3 seasons. Clearly things haven't gone as planned, with a 1st round, lockout and 2nd round losses to follow 2003.
Last year was considered our 'best chance' to pull it off and we failed again, bowing out quickly to the Sabres. With all the changes over the summer, many people from what I gather still consider us contenders, but that we have taken a step back. I like the make-up of this team this year, but I wonder if we'll ever be able to get over the hump with this core of players.

I hope it happens, but how many people here actually believe it will happen???

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08-31-2006, 03:39 PM
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I do.

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08-31-2006, 03:50 PM
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Mace_37
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Every year since the beginning of the NHL, a Canadian captain has won the cup. The only exception is Darrien Hatcher on Dallas. I think that the guy wearing the 'C' has a lot more influence over the team that people think, if roughly half the NHL is Canadian, a Canadian captain can relate to and lead his team a lot better because he can talk to them more easily. Also, Alfie's developed the reputation as a choke artist. I think as long as he's Ottawa's captain, they won't win the cup.

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08-31-2006, 03:51 PM
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IranCondraAffair
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Last year with our starting goalie I think we would have had a better shot. Also, during the lockout we would have iced a contending team as well.


Give it time, I personally don't see how we've significantly regressed. Our team is balanced experienced and deep. Although our best shot will probably be next year, we're still a top team and although our depth has been hurt, we're a much more balanced team as a result with more "types" of players.

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08-31-2006, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace_37 View Post
Every year since the beginning of the NHL, a Canadian captain has won the cup. The only exception is Darrien Hatcher on Dallas. I think that the guy wearing the 'C' has a lot more influence over the team that people think, if roughly half the NHL is Canadian, a Canadian captain can relate to and lead his team a lot better because he can talk to them more easily. Also, Alfie's developed the reputation as a choke artist. I think as long as he's Ottawa's captain, they won't win the cup.
...Sundin's game must be close to par by now.

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08-31-2006, 04:11 PM
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Mace_37
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Originally Posted by SocioJoe View Post
...Sundin's game must be close to par by now.
I'm not saying that if you're not Canadian that you don't stand a chance to win the cup, but I think that it helps. IMO, Sundin's the best non-Canadian captain in the league. I think that Captain clutch can lead a team much better than Alfie can. My Canadian captain point was secondary to the fact that as long as Alfie is leading the team by choking, they're not making it far.

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08-31-2006, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace_37 View Post
I'm not saying that if you're not Canadian that you don't stand a chance to win the cup, but I think that it helps. IMO, Sundin's the best non-Canadian captain in the league. I think that Captain clutch can lead a team much better than Alfie can. My Canadian captain point was secondary to the fact that as long as Alfie is leading the team by choking, they're not making it far.
Alfredsson has brought the Sens closer to the cup than Sundin has with the Leafs.

With Alfredsson as the captain, the Sens have never missed the Playoffs. With Sundin as the Leafs captain, the Leafs have missed the Playoffs 3 times.

I consider Alfredsson=Sundin.

Bottom line is, both of them have not proven much as captains in the NHL.

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08-31-2006, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace_37 View Post
I'm not saying that if you're not Canadian that you don't stand a chance to win the cup, but I think that it helps. IMO, Sundin's the best non-Canadian captain in the league. I think that Captain clutch can lead a team much better than Alfie can. My Canadian captain point was secondary to the fact that as long as Alfie is leading the team by choking, they're not making it far.
Although you might have the stats to back it up, I do honestly beleive that any captain regardless of nationality has the ablility to lead his team to the cup. Alfredson has shown HUGE amounts of heart for this team. These playoffs he was off, but every other series, he was almost forced to carry the team on his back. No single player can win/lose the cup, its a team effort. Unfortunatly the sens have lacked clutch scoring and goaltending in the playoffs, which has lead to the pre-mentioned exits.

Every team, in my oppinion has the ability to win the cup, even the Caps and Pens. It all depends on how well the team plays as a whole, instead of individuals.

That, and IMO your comments are biased because you are a leaf fan. No one here can really attest to how good a captain is in this league, because none of us, or a VERY select few have even been in the dressing room with the team. You are intitled to your oppinion, but when it comes to letting the rest of the world know it, especially when its a leaf fan semi-bashing the sens, it causes trouble, and I would STRONGLY advise against it.

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Old
08-31-2006, 05:01 PM
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Ismellofhockey
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To get to the Cup, you have to have 2 things: resilience and luck.
The Sens in 03 had resilience thanks to Roger Nielsen, they also had the luck of falling on the easy Islanders in round 1, then on Philadelphia aka the Sens' preferred victim in round 2. It all went up in smoke on 1 misplay in game 7.

Then, last spring, Ottawa loses its top netminder. That's bad luck and it also affects the team's resilience. They still win against Tampa but Emery lets in 7 goals in game 1 against Buffalo. Once again a single goal could have made the difference for the entire series. Bad luck again.

This year, our top goaltender is less likely to be injured, there's less pressure already because more media is looking at Buffalo as a divsion favorite, while few predictions have the Sens as conference champs nevermind favorites for the Cup.

We may not have a Candian captain, but Muckler has reversed the ratio of Canadian born -vs- European born players on the team. We're finally no longer young where it hurts most: goaltending and defence. Our offence is relatively young but still proven. Another veteran forward à la Nieuwendyk come the deadline would surely be all that we need.

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Old
08-31-2006, 05:44 PM
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PatrickEaves
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"Can we?" - Yes

"Will we?" - We'll find out

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08-31-2006, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickEaves View Post
"Can we?" - Yes

"Will we?" - We'll find out
Couldn't be said any better.

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Old
08-31-2006, 06:34 PM
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Powdered Toast Man
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No, don't bother watching.

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Old
08-31-2006, 07:59 PM
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NyQuil
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Anything's possible.

I'm still of the belief that, when/if the Senators do win the Cup, it will be rather unexpected of sorts.

That kind of atmosphere generates less pressure and allows them to play the game without the fear of losing.

As for the Sundin > Alfredsson as Captain argument, I'm not buying it.

Sundin has never been a major factor in dismissing the Senators and his team has hardly been able to beat any other quality opponents (i.e. the Devils and the Flyers).

If Roberts or Thomas were Captain, maybe I'd agree. As it is, Sundin hasn't really done anything to distinguish himself from Alfredsson.

What's funny is that Alfie used to distinguish himself as being a great playoff performer. Unfortunately, it has been lost behind a series of mediocre performances. But his clutch goal in the playoffs against the Leafs after knocking the hapless Tucker into the boards isn't forgotten around here.

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Old
08-31-2006, 08:51 PM
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Any team that makes the playoffs can win the cup. I expect the Senators to have a good enough roster to make the playoffs for the near future, not just this year. It's amazing to think of the talent that has turned over on this team in the last 2 years especially, but in all likelihood we'll be a top club once again. I like the make up of this team, an awesome blend of no guff work ethic combined with skill. The same ingredients that kept this club afloat over the years remain - Speed, speed, speed. We've actually improved our D speed...

Yes, I think this team will be a contender. As we've seen, however, playoffs is like black magic or something. Lots of Cinderella runs lately especially.

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08-31-2006, 10:29 PM
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I have watched last years Buffalo/Ottawa series on the Hockey Network and I really noticed some of our weaknesses last year.

We really did not have a second line. The first line was pretty good at times (Heatley, Spezza, Eaves) and it was especially good when you saw the effort that Spezza put in with his bad back. He hit harder in the playoffs than during anytime in the regular season. He will bring it this year.

The failings were that often times the second line was Schaeffer, Fisher and Havlat. They did not have any chemistry and did not seem to click at all. I also think the same thing happend to the powerplay. Havlat was on the first (and it seemed only) unit and it just looked too disjointed.

The line of Vermette, Smolinski and Alfredsson had some chances, but Alfie could not hit the net at all. Smoke seemed pretty invisible most of the time.

The fourth line seemed to have much more spunk than the others...Schubert, Kelly and Neil.

The defence seemed pretty week much of the time. Chara had a really hard time with the Sabre's speed and they ran around in their own zone too much. Hopefully another year of playoff seasoning and the fact that Priessing played two rounds this last year as well will help next year.

That said, I think that our second line will be better this year. Vermette, Kai and Alfredsson will have all year to learn each other's tricks and the first line will be at least as good as last year. Our third and fourth lines look to be at least as good as last year and there will be one more year of seasoning.

Our goaltending will be better in this year's playoffs. Gerber is the real deal and if he get's injured, Emery will not be a raw rookie next year and should not be as nervous.

We had an amazing number of rookies in the lineup last year:
Eaves, Kelly, McGratton, Schubert, Meszaros, Emery, and when you count second year players: Spezza, Vermette and Volchenkov that was a lot of inexperience. Each of those players have matured and will likely be better this year.

I am looking forward to this year and if all goes as planned, sure we have as good a shot at winning the cup this year as any other team, and better than most.

Go Sens GO (by the way, my Sens shirt came out of temporary retirement today)!

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08-31-2006, 11:56 PM
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No. Save yourself the trouble and start weeping now. Better yet, give up now and then brag about how smart you are at the end of the season.

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Old
09-01-2006, 09:52 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace_37 View Post
Every year since the beginning of the NHL, a Canadian captain has won the cup. The only exception is Darrien Hatcher on Dallas. I think that the guy wearing the 'C' has a lot more influence over the team that people think, if roughly half the NHL is Canadian, a Canadian captain can relate to and lead his team a lot better because he can talk to them more easily. Also, Alfie's developed the reputation as a choke artist. I think as long as he's Ottawa's captain, they won't win the cup.

Now for interests sake why dont you tell us a few things:

When was the first European Captain introduced to the league?
How many European Captains have their been?

Then do yourself a favour and do some simple math, i think you'll find that the odds of a Euro Captain having won a Cup are exceedingly small, if only due to their population size.

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Old
09-01-2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
Now for interests sake why dont you tell us a few things:

When was the first European Captain introduced to the league?
How many European Captains have their been?

Then do yourself a favour and do some simple math, i think you'll find that the odds of a Euro Captain having won a Cup are exceedingly small, if only due to their population size.
Exactly and not to mention the fact that only 1 out of 30 captains can win the cup in any year. The reason more Canadian captains have won the cup is because there have been more of them than any other nationality, it is not because they have some in-bred pre disposition to being better leaders than a player of another nationality. The players know who should or should not be the captain of their team. I have never heard a Sens player past or present say Alfie is not a good captain (quite the opposite actually), same for Sundin.

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Old
09-01-2006, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
When was the first European Captain introduced to the league?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars-Erik_Sjoberg

I realize this has nothing to do with the argument. Just throwin' in a Jets reference wherever I can!

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09-01-2006, 10:14 AM
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Kardi
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Originally Posted by PatrickEaves View Post
"Can we?" - Yes

"Will we?" - We'll find out
no and no

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Old
09-01-2006, 10:15 AM
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jamiebez
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Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
Does the team, franchise really have the ability to win the Cup???
No doubt in my mind.

Having said that, there's probably at least a dozen teams that can say the same thing. Off the top of my head: Philly, NYR, New Jersey, Buffalo, Carolina, Anaheim, San Jose, Calgary, Edmonton, Detroit, Nashville, etc, etc We obviously can't all win it.

Quite frankly, I hear from a lot of non-Sens fans that "you guys should have won 3 or 4 Cups by now". While I feel like that too sometimes (especially last year and '03, as Craven pointed out), I don't think it's a fair thing to say. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I think it disrespects the Stanley Cup, or more specifically, what it takes to win it. You don't just need skill, you need a lot of luck, too: injuries, matchups, travel, hot streaks, chemistry and many more intangibles all have to go your way. Saying you should win it because you're the "most skilled" team doesn't reflect that whole picture.

I think the goal should be to keep this team as a playoff-quality team for as long as possible to maximize your chances over the long run, and I feel that's what's happened this offseason. Besides, stacking the team in an attempt to "go for it" in one season like last year won't work in a cap world - last year being the exception because it was the transition year.

The team does not look as good now as it did one year ago, but it's still a pretty good team. We definitely have a shot at the Cup again, and that's all you can ask for.

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Old
09-01-2006, 10:19 AM
  #22
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Heck yeah we can win that cup, ain't no mountain high ain't no valley low when the something something call me i'll be there in a something, feel me up butter cup baby.

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Old
09-01-2006, 10:22 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Kardi View Post
no and no
I guess it doesn't really fit with your prediction:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kardi
on crack with the leafs being 3rd last in the east

were gonna win it all

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Old
09-01-2006, 10:25 AM
  #24
armani
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Ottawa Senators SUCKS!

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09-01-2006, 10:25 AM
  #25
NyQuil
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Ottawa Senators SUCKS!
QFT!

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