HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

Telling someone you don't want them on the team

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2010, 05:31 AM
  #1
Pierre Gotye
Registered User
 
Pierre Gotye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 4,012
vCash: 500
Telling someone you don't want them on the team

I'm forming a new team which is comprised of about half of my current team.

My current team doesn't do too well. We have only a couple of players who actually skate and generate offense and play defense. The rest are an intermediate group, learning and still transitioning.

At any rate we have a couple of players on my current team who just don't show me much effort, and in many instances it costs us, goals and games. They drive me nuts as a defenseman when they don't forecheck the puck carrier who is close to their side. Sometimes(if not most times)not doing anything at all.

With that in mind I am going to have a couple of "in transition" players on my new team. They're not the best skaters, but they will show me an effort on most shifts. So I think I can work with them. At the same time, I am friends with them and want them on the team.

I now have one of these lazier players wanting to be on the new team. I'm not especially friends with. He can score the odd goal on occasion, but really kind of pisses me off when he doesn't skate back, lollygags, or chooses to play only when he wants to.

The only time I see him put in much effort is if he has the puck. The rest of the time, he sort of Kovalev's it. We end up playing 5 on 4, rather than 5 on 5.

Too many times this season, and especially like last night did I see him just kind of stand around and take his time on recovery during the transition of the play.

On my new team, I am hoping to patch up some of our weaknesses by adding players who will forecheck and give me an effort. Granted, I can't make everyone a skater, but in order to have more fun and win more games I want to have people who are willing to give me an effort.

The rest of our team will be assembled Sunday when we add players from our draft.

So what do you say to someone who wants to be a part of something you're looking to get rid of?

Pierre Gotye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 05:33 AM
  #2
NigelSPNKr
#SavetheGoons
 
NigelSPNKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,797
vCash: 164
try "I dont want you on my team"

what level is this team?

NigelSPNKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 05:41 AM
  #3
Pierre Gotye
Registered User
 
Pierre Gotye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 4,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
try "I dont want you on my team"

what level is this team?
D league, just above I league (or instructional league). The skating is, speed of play, and just about everything else is better.


Last edited by Pierre Gotye: 02-19-2010 at 06:00 AM.
Pierre Gotye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 06:04 AM
  #4
NigelSPNKr
#SavetheGoons
 
NigelSPNKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,797
vCash: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentbreakaway23 View Post
D league, just above I league (or instructional league). The skating is, speed of play, and just about everything else is better.
Thats harsh cutting dudes from a beginners league. The whole point of the league is to have fun with guys that have weak skills, its not so much about winning and what not.

I thought for sure you where going to say at least B league, cutting dudes and stacking in beginner league is weaksauce, but it is your team after all, you get the right to choose who you want to play with.

NigelSPNKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 06:11 AM
  #5
IniNew
Registered User
 
IniNew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Keller
Country: United States
Posts: 337
vCash: 500
D is not a beginners. I-League is for beginners.

I play at a place where I is actually Bronze. D&C Is Silver and B&A is Gold. 95% I-League (or Bronze League) players CANNOT jump up to Silver without getting demolished.

IniNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 07:45 AM
  #6
stick9
Registered User
 
stick9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 10,031
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Thats harsh cutting dudes from a beginners league. The whole point of the league is to have fun with guys that have weak skills, its not so much about winning and what not.

I thought for sure you where going to say at least B league, cutting dudes and stacking in beginner league is weaksauce, but it is your team after all, you get the right to choose who you want to play with.
Totally agree. Sounds like maybe the OP taking things a bit too seriously. Go out and have fun.

As long as the guy shows up each week and pays his fees on time there shouldn't be a problem.

stick9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 07:55 AM
  #7
Pog Form
Registered User
 
Pog Form's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 710
vCash: 500
To the OP: I totally understand where you're coming from. At that level, I'd rather have a bad player who tries his best over an "ok" player who floats around.

Pog Form is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 07:57 AM
  #8
EmptyNetter
Registered User
 
EmptyNetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Shore, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Thats harsh cutting dudes from a beginners league. The whole point of the league is to have fun with guys that have weak skills, its not so much about winning and what not.

I thought for sure you where going to say at least B league, cutting dudes and stacking in beginner league is weaksauce, but it is your team after all, you get the right to choose who you want to play with.
I think I get where the OP is coming from. It's not the skill level but the effort level that he's concerned with. As he says, he's got friends he wants on the team and they're really not very good but they put in the effort.

Brentbreakaway23 --
Just be straight with the guy. Tell him his attitude is poor and it sets a bad example for the other players. I don't know if you want to leave the option open for him to join if he gets with the program -- that's your call. Maybe this is the wake-up call he needs and it will force him to take his responsibilities -- playing off the puck -- seriously.

Have you talked to the guys who will be on the team about not inviting the other guys? You've got to expect that some of the cut players will pester them for a second opinion (either "What's Brent's problem?", "Was I really that bad?" or "Can you talk to him for me?").

EmptyNetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 08:01 AM
  #9
WVP
Registered User
 
WVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 13,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IniNew View Post
D is not a beginners. I-League is for beginners.

I play at a place where I is actually Bronze. D&C Is Silver and B&A is Gold. 95% I-League (or Bronze League) players CANNOT jump up to Silver without getting demolished.
This is turning into one of my pet peeves.

Why can't every rink just have A, B, C, D etc etc....? From highest level to the lowest. A is the ex-college, junior and high school stars and summer college guys, B is a step down and so on...

I play at places that start at C and goes from there. And other places with West and East, North and South.....why make it confusing?

WVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 08:31 AM
  #10
NigelSPNKr
#SavetheGoons
 
NigelSPNKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,797
vCash: 164
I agree he can do what he wants with his team, if he wants better guys, its his call, more power too him. Im just saying dont expect much backchecking, forechecking, stamina and/or agility in a beginner league. Most guys at this level havnt played organized hockey much never mind have the skill to play "system" hockey.

imo you could (just throwing out a possibility) be confusing lack of effort with lack of stamina/lack of understand position/lack of playing much organized hockey which is to be expected at such a low level. Beginner leagues are meant for fun, not so much the score.

NigelSPNKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 08:35 AM
  #11
Frankie Spankie
Registered User
 
Frankie Spankie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dorchester, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,989
vCash: 500
As much as it pains me to say it since you are playing in a D league, you do have a point. When I play, I don't care how good my teammates are, so long as people are trying. I play with a couple people who score a couple of goals a game but I want them off my team because they're so lazy or always hang.

Just tell them they have to start skating, get more aggressive on the forecheck, and play defense when they need to.

Frankie Spankie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 08:36 AM
  #12
NigelSPNKr
#SavetheGoons
 
NigelSPNKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,797
vCash: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVP View Post
This is turning into one of my pet peeves.

Why can't every rink just have A, B, C, D etc etc....? From highest level to the lowest. A is the ex-college, junior and high school stars and summer college guys, B is a step down and so on...

I play at places that start at C and goes from there. And other places with West and East, North and South.....why make it confusing?
Every where i have ever gone and/or played they pretty much do. A, B, C, D. For the most part "instructional" league is just hockey school with some shinny.

NigelSPNKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 09:08 AM
  #13
noobman
Registered User
 
noobman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentbreakaway23 View Post
D league, just above I league (or instructional league). The skating is, speed of play, and just about everything else is better.
You want to cut guys from a D level league? That's harsh, man. At that level, you should only be cutting guys if they're no fun to be around in the locker room, or if they start too many fights.

We have a "takes it wayy too seriously" guy on our team too (C level) but he's the worst player on our team so he couldn't dream of trying to cut players

noobman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 09:09 AM
  #14
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,981
vCash: 500
It's tough cutting guys from D league. You pretty much are saying that you suck so bad, you're not even good enough for the worst league.

Once you get higher than that though, it's even worse. You can be in C and have a guy who isn't even even good enough for D league. However, he could be a nice guy, how do you say, you're gone?

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 10:16 AM
  #15
Jarick
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 25,249
vCash: 500
I have to chime in, there can be a pretty big difference between a D level and a beginner team. I'm not saying D level guys are going to make the show or anything, but at least in my league (D1), guys can skate forwards and backwards with some decent speed, crossovers front and back, stop on a dime, stickhandle, and shoot pretty well.

My team has "franchises" at three levels, one of them being beginner grads at the lowest level (D2). Most of these guys can barely skate both directions and some have trouble stopping. Only a couple guys have shots, and the pace of the games is not far from mite hockey. It's a pretty huge jump in skill and speed.

To me, there are two things you can control: the effort and the attitude. If you give 100% most nights (there will be times in adult hockey you can't) and you're a good guy on the bench and in the locker room, that's all you need to do. But you have to match the skill level, otherwise it's not fun. Nobody wants to bust their ass and get dangled every shift pulling the puck out of the net, and most guys don't want to walk around the other team and score 10 goals a night.

All that said, I'd ask the guy if he's having fun and how he feels out there. If he's completely wiped out and can't skate after 20 seconds, maybe he needs to move down a level. If he's just screwing around, maybe ask him to work a little harder. You might have to put it nicely, but if there are guys giving 100% and he's slacking, it's not the right fit. Yes, there are D level teams that compete hard, even if they look like complete benders compared to the laziest B team you can find.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 10:33 AM
  #16
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,380
vCash: 500
I don't think you are taking it too seriously. D or not, you still want to win. And attitude is so important and it's contagious.

If the guy tried but just sucked really bad, that's a touchy situation. And I would hate to be the guy to say I don't want him.

But if the guy is a lazy sack who plays for himself, then he knows the problem is "up there" and he should know deep down that he deserved it, his feelings won't get hurt.

I had a guy I had to cut from floor hockey, he was decently skilled but completely lacked intensity. Lost every single battle for the puck he was ever in. I saw the effect this had on our bench when I was sitting off and heard the reactions of my teammates. I just called the guy and asked for his jersey prior to the start of the next season. I kinda tiptoed around "we don't want you anymore" and advised "we might be calling you if we need a spare or something".

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 10:59 AM
  #17
nystromshairstylist
Fire Capuano
 
nystromshairstylist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SR Hadden's plane
Country: Barbados
Posts: 1,009
vCash: 500
Knowing that I am the Worst Hockey Player in America right now, this thread raised my gander a bit since I would probably be the first player asked to take a walk.

After all, I spent 20 years playing pickup B-ball and if one guy sucked, but was friends with the rest of the "regulars", you still let him play but just knew not to take advantage and drive at him every time down the court.

That being said, going to the local park with shorts and a basketball for an afternoon of pickup is one thing, spending hundreds, if not thousands, on equipment AND the very substantial league fees is a whole different matter.

Given how hard it is to get on the ice - at least here in NYC - I can see people being real picky about who they play with.

It's also a big reason I'm so hesitant to go to open hockey, I know people are paying $25 for 1 1/2 hours to be on the ice once per week, and the last thing I'd want to do is screw it up for them.

nystromshairstylist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 11:04 AM
  #18
EmptyNetter
Registered User
 
EmptyNetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Shore, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post

imo you could (just throwing out a possibility) be confusing lack of effort with lack of stamina/lack of understand position/lack of playing much organized hockey which is to be expected at such a low level. Beginner leagues are meant for fun, not so much the score.
Definitely worth considering. That's why being straight with him and talking the situation out is important. OP will get a good idea just from the players' reactions where their head is at. There's a big difference between "Well, ya wanna score goals or not?" and "I do skate hard. I just don't know where I'm supposed to be."

I take this issue to heart because I'm one of those low-skill guys who tries to always put out a full out effort. The player turnover on our team has been crazy the last 4 years and now we've got a lot of competitive players all competing within the D level. They've been really patient with me and give honest feedback about when I'm out of position, what I'm doing well etc, and it's helped a ton. Also, practicing together as a team has helped -- guys just sacrificing their own time to get better and also trying new moves, new strategies at a slower pace is a huge help to our development. Some players have work or family commitments that can't be broken while others may have a truly awful commute to the rink but any attempt to attend group practice is an indicator that a player wants to be part of a team.

Just to clarify -- if this is entirely about effort and attitude I don't really have a problem with the OP's position. If this is all about building some kind of D-level dynasty and stacking the team with ringers I'm completely against it.

EmptyNetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 11:28 AM
  #19
Gino 14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 812
vCash: 500
To the OP, just tell the guy no. He'll end up getting on a team that wants to have fun, not just win and he'll be better off. At the level you're talking about, it's far more important to enjoy your ice time with a good group of guys than it is to worry that you're being evaluated. You're not paying guys to play for you, they're paying to play, big difference.

Gino 14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 11:41 AM
  #20
CanFan05
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I don't think you are taking it too seriously. D or not, you still want to win. And attitude is so important and it's contagious.

If the guy tried but just sucked really bad, that's a touchy situation. And I would hate to be the guy to say I don't want him.

But if the guy is a lazy sack who plays for himself, then he knows the problem is "up there" and he should know deep down that he deserved it, his feelings won't get hurt.

I had a guy I had to cut from floor hockey, he was decently skilled but completely lacked intensity. Lost every single battle for the puck he was ever in. I saw the effect this had on our bench when I was sitting off and heard the reactions of my teammates. I just called the guy and asked for his jersey prior to the start of the next season. I kinda tiptoed around "we don't want you anymore" and advised "we might be calling you if we need a spare or something".
Man I did the same thing for my ballhockey team. A guy on our team would just quit on us when the opposing team would take a 3 gaol lead. He would stop running and be a turnover machine. Suffice it so say that I didnt invite him back on the team the following season. Also, we had another who would hog play time and be regularly late to our games (getting there sometimes in the 2nd). I told him straight up we didnt need him anymore after having warned him twice. It's not a fun thing to do but your responsibility is to your teamated. By the way, we are 14-2-0 this season...


Last edited by CanFan05: 02-19-2010 at 12:07 PM.
CanFan05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 12:08 PM
  #21
noobman
Registered User
 
noobman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nystromshairstylist View Post
It's also a big reason I'm so hesitant to go to open hockey, I know people are paying $25 for 1 1/2 hours to be on the ice once per week, and the last thing I'd want to do is screw it up for them.
It's called open hockey for a reason -- it's open to everyone!

I can only speak for myself, but when I end up playing with a really weak player I try to give him or her the puck MORE than I normally would a regular player, just because I know that in whatever league they play in they probably dont' get the puck a lot. It's really the only way to get better.

noobman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 01:16 PM
  #22
Webernaut
Registered User
 
Webernaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
I didn't read the thread but I am about to have to do this myself.

One of the teams I play on is a rec beer league. The team is a tight nit group of guys but half of us want to break off so we can be a better team. This means we have to cut friends and in one instance, a co worker. You have to be upfront and ruthless. I know it's a shock to hear that word but it's true. Be very clear and keep it concise. It's like a break up or quitting a job.

Webernaut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 01:38 PM
  #23
noobman
Registered User
 
noobman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVP View Post
This is turning into one of my pet peeves.

Why can't every rink just have A, B, C, D etc etc....? From highest level to the lowest. A is the ex-college, junior and high school stars and summer college guys, B is a step down and so on...

I play at places that start at C and goes from there. And other places with West and East, North and South.....why make it confusing?
It never works out that way. The skill levels are fairly consistent from level to level, but there are always a ton of outliers. The mens leagues over here go A-E, but usually there is only one A division for the entire week, so it's mostly B-E (which makes very little sense imho)

A skilled C level team that just wants to goof around and have fun will usually dog it for a bit, then jump down to D or E and dominate. While it's fun for them, it's really not fun for the rest of the division.

It sometimes works the other way around where a few players will play with their buddies at a level higher than they're capable of playing. I've seen guys only marginally better than me playing B level, whereas I don't see them being any better than C/D level.

Side note: I just looked up one of the top scorers on an A level team... in 03-04 he put up 45pts in 49 games playing in the OPJHL. Now he plays in the ASHL and presumably works at Transmission Depot (since he's been on that team for a while)

noobman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 01:45 PM
  #24
Webernaut
Registered User
 
Webernaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
I am in a different situation here in Tampa, FL. One rink has SHL (Select league or A), B, C and Novice. A teams have some phenomenal players and some okay C level guys. B Teams all have A players but the rest of the team sucks. There is no true B level team across the board. Every league has "that team". Nothing you can do when guys want to play with their friends.

Webernaut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 02:01 PM
  #25
therealkoho
Gary says it's A-OK
 
therealkoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the Prior
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,590
vCash: 500
Why i wonder in a D league is winning so important, to me whether it's mens hockey or not, it seems somewhat akin to what Tyke or Atom is for kids, a place to learn the game and have some fun with it.

I have no idea what the ascension designations are in your area, but why don't you just move yourself up one step to better competition. Maybe you'll find out what it's like to be the guy you want to cut.

Or perhaps get to know these guys a little better by getting them involved in some off ice training, because it just may be a matter of conditioning levels or maybe there training for baseball or something else and not hockey. Become a leader to them by setting an example of your own commitment to the team and playing at a higher level of comepte. This way the team gels and when that happens, the winning starts

therealkoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.