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Old
11-16-2003, 10:05 AM
  #1
Rafters
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Available Centers???

There has been speculation that Lowe should try to get a center that can win some faceoffs, we all know that Oates or Ronning will not show up in an Oiler uniform, so who should the Oilers go after? Our main asset right now is Comrie, but are there some decent centers that we could get that does not involve a Comrie trade?? I think Curtis Brown or Yannic Perrault could help in the short term, but maybe make to much $ for the Oil. Stefan would be a good fit for the Oil, but definately not as a center piece of a Comrie trade.

Does anyone know a good site to find out faceoff % for individuals and teams? I know from watching the games that the Oil are bad, but just wondering how bad each center is. I would also like to check on some other centers around the league. If anyone heard of centers the Oil are looking at or possible trade speculation not involving Comrie(I think Lowe will make him will sit for a long time like the Buffalo and Peca situation), it would be much appreciated.

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11-16-2003, 10:10 AM
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Please try to keep the speculation realistic and look at both sides of the trade, please no one side Oiler trades.

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11-16-2003, 10:22 AM
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eh. Chris Gratton. I know he sucks, but he at least can win faceoffs. Maybe somebody in the Oilers' organization could motivate the big lug to live up to his ability. I read somewhere that the Coyotes would trade him to anybody willing to take him.

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11-16-2003, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
eh. Chris Gratton. I know he sucks, but he at least can win faceoffs. Maybe somebody in the Oilers' organization could motivate the big lug to live up to his ability. I read somewhere that the Coyotes would trade him to anybody willing to take him.

How much is Gratton's salary worth, He could definetly solve some of our problem(big center,faceoffs). He can also be a force to play against WHEN he tries.

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11-16-2003, 10:54 AM
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Well, I'm not sure were Gratton would really fit in. I mean I know he'd be an upgrade over Horcoff - but he sures hell isn't worth anywhere NEAR his 2.2million/year salary!

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11-16-2003, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
eh. Chris Gratton. I know he sucks, but he at least can win faceoffs. Maybe somebody in the Oilers' organization could motivate the big lug to live up to his ability. I read somewhere that the Coyotes would trade him to anybody willing to take him.
Yeah but at $2.2 million a year - pass. The whole center thing just depresses me because the realistic solutions are all so crappy. Maybe Curtis Brown out of Buffalo. Decent defensively, some offense, 6 ft 200 lbs, $1.6 million salary.

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11-16-2003, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3991731
There has been speculation that Lowe should try to get a center that can win some faceoffs, we all know that Oates or Ronning will not show up in an Oiler uniform, so who should the Oilers go after? Our main asset right now is Comrie, but are there some decent centers that we could get that does not involve a Comrie trade?? I think Curtis Brown or Yannic Perrault could help in the short term, but maybe make to much $ for the Oil. Stefan would be a good fit for the Oil, but definately not as a center piece of a Comrie trade.

Does anyone know a good site to find out faceoff % for individuals and teams? I know from watching the games that the Oil are bad, but just wondering how bad each center is. I would also like to check on some other centers around the league. If anyone heard of centers the Oil are looking at or possible trade speculation not involving Comrie(I think Lowe will make him will sit for a long time like the Buffalo and Peca situation), it would be much appreciated.

Islanders Dave Scatchard.

According to tsn.ca last week, when Weimer was rumoured to be put on waivers, Scatchard was rumoured to being shopped around. He's 6 foot 2 - 222 lbs. He's from Hinton, Alberta. He scored 27 goals last year with a total of 45 points - as their 3rd line center. Like Marchant, he could possibly benefit from being put in a 1st or 2nd line centre position. He's big, tough, good defensively and would likely help with faceoffs. He's a bit older (27) but Cross has been really strong for us this year and he's older than Niniimaa.

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11-16-2003, 11:54 AM
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Work with me through some very complicated math.

Isbister = enigma,
Gratton = enigma,
enigma = fan frustration,
fan frustration = high blood pressure
high blood pressure = shorter life

Therefore, by process of substitution:
Isbister + Gratton = Death

OH MY, that is scary! Do you want to risk your life just to have a centreman who can win faceoffs??

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11-16-2003, 12:04 PM
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nhl.com in their stats can sort FO%. Marchant is 7th in the league, what about him? A guy I wouldn't mind thats somewhat up there(#29) is Shawn Bates. A good 2 way guy with good speed. Had 42 and 52 points the last 2 years and has 10 points in 16 games this year, could do well with extra ice time here. And add to that, he only makes $900,000 per, he is an option. Won't be that big #1 center we'd all want, but could be am option.

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11-16-2003, 12:16 PM
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Problem is Scatch is hurt with a blown shoulder and is out for another 3-4 weeks. Certainly would not mind him here at all though if the price is right (Rita? - Islanders could send him to their farm team to save dough but still have a prospect ready for next year).

Lowe has always liked Scatch so with the Islanders trying to dump salary this may be the time try get him - injury or not. They are also pretty thin on LW. Hmmm this Torres/Izzy trade is looking less good for the Isles all the time.

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11-16-2003, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Problem is Scatch is hurt with a blown shoulder and is out for another 3-4 weeks. Certainly would not mind him here at all though if the price is right (Rita? - Islanders could send him to their farm team to save dough but still have a prospect ready for next year).

Lowe has always liked Scatch so with the Islanders trying to dump salary this may be the time try get him - injury or not. They are also pretty thin on LW. Hmmm this Torres/Izzy trade is looking less good for the Isles all the time.

Just from checking on the Islander's message board, their fans have said that he's skating hard in practise and should be only a week away or by the end of the month. My fingers a crossed that Lowe is simply waiting until he's healthy until doing something.

Also, supposedly there were Washington scouts at the Wild/ Oilers game. Rumour was that Lowe was interested in trading Janne Niniimaa for Brian Sutherby of the Caps. at last year's trading deadline. Hmmm... Sutherby is big, he's from Edmonton too. The only problem is he's not productive offensively.

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11-16-2003, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Problem is Scatch is hurt with a blown shoulder and is out for another 3-4 weeks. Certainly would not mind him here at all though if the price is right (Rita? - Islanders could send him to their farm team to save dough but still have a prospect ready for next year).

Lowe has always liked Scatch so with the Islanders trying to dump salary this may be the time try get him - injury or not. They are also pretty thin on LW. Hmmm this Torres/Izzy trade is looking less good for the Isles all the time.

Scatchard makes $1.3m and is out with a dislocated shoulder.

25 yr old Kvasha's playing well on the 1st line lw and unless they think Rita's upside is greater then Hunter+Papineau's for that 2nd line lw spot,I don't see the isles interest in Rita.

The last time the isles talked about moving Scatchard,it was in a package.that's the type of deal I'd expect him to go in.

Scatchard+Parrish
Scatchard+Cairns

btw how is the Izzy/Torres deal looking less good for the isles?
Hunter has the same number of goals Torres does and is finally playing with the physical edge the isles have been waiting for him to show.

Hunter's outplaying several of the isles vets.

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11-16-2003, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Scatchard makes $1.3m and is out with a dislocated shoulder.

25 yr old Kvasha's playing well on the 1st line lw and unless they think Rita's upside is greater then Hunter+Papineau's for that 2nd line lw spot,I don't see the isles interest in Rita.

The last time the isles talked about moving Scatchard,it was in a package.that's the type of deal I'd expect him to go in.

Scatchard+Parrish
Scatchard+Cairns

btw how is the Izzy/Torres deal looking less good for the isles?
Hunter has the same number of goals Torres does and is finally playing with the physical edge the isles have been waiting for him to show.

Hunter's outplaying several of the isles vets.
Just stating the obvious - Torres has been wonderful and looks like the real deal. When the trade went down most thought the Isles came out way ahead. It looks more even now.

Anyway - you still look a bit thin on LW and are looking to cut salary - so are any of the following inexpensive LW of interest to the Isles in exchange for Scatchard (picks are also possible)?

Rita (LW) , Chimera (LW), Horcoff (C/LW)

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11-16-2003, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3991731
Please try to keep the speculation realistic and look at both sides of the trade, please no one side Oiler trades.
thank god you posted this. I was just going to impress everyone with my idea - the oilers should trade the nhl rights to Poky Reddick for Joe Thornton. If Boston balks, throw in a fourth or fifth round pick

Your post caused me to pause and reflect. I wish more newbies would have such great advice.

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11-16-2003, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Scatchard+Parrish
GIMME GIMME GIMME!

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11-16-2003, 01:49 PM
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Milbury is cutting salary, though, so Bates at $900K would be unlikely to go. It's the main reason Weimer was put on waivers, since nobody wanted to deal for him.

And if Parrish is really making $2M +, he becomes less attractive to the Oilers.

If the Islanders are really cutting salary, they don't make particularly good trading partners, as the Oilers usually want to take on younger, cheaper guys with upside, but the Islanders are less likely to give up guys like that now.

Bart

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11-16-2003, 02:20 PM
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All the good ones I'd like won't be dealt. In that category are Marleau (terrific player), Legwand and a few others.

I think Patrik Stefan would make an excellent Oiler, but have no idea what the deal would look like; same holds true for Jeff Taffe, who is the one player I'd most like to become an Oiler.

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11-16-2003, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comrie
Work with me through some very complicated math.

Isbister = enigma,
Gratton = enigma,
enigma = fan frustration,
fan frustration = high blood pressure
high blood pressure = shorter life

Therefore, by process of substitution:
Isbister + Gratton = Death

OH MY, that is scary! Do you want to risk your life just to have a centreman who can win faceoffs??
hilarious, simply hilarious=)

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11-16-2003, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
All the good ones I'd like won't be dealt. In that category are Marleau (terrific player), Legwand and a few others.

I think Patrik Stefan would make an excellent Oiler, but have no idea what the deal would look like; same holds true for Jeff Taffe, who is the one player I'd most like to become an Oiler.
With you 100% LT - but we've been down this "we need a center" road a few times over the last several years haven't we

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11-16-2003, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Just stating the obvious - Torres has been wonderful and looks like the real deal. When the trade went down most thought the Isles came out way ahead. It looks more even now.

Anyway - you still look a bit thin on LW and are looking to cut salary - so are any of the following inexpensive LW of interest to the Isles in exchange for Scatchard (picks are also possible)?

Rita (LW) , Chimera (LW), Horcoff (C/LW)
Isles want their own cheap youngsters getting icetime.
none of the lws you're offering is an upgrade on the forwards the isles will put on 2nd line lw:Blake,Hunter,Weinhandl.

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11-16-2003, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Just stating the obvious - Torres has been wonderful and looks like the real deal. When the trade went down most thought the Isles came out way ahead. It looks more even now.

Anyway - you still look a bit thin on LW and are looking to cut salary - so are any of the following inexpensive LW of interest to the Isles in exchange for Scatchard (picks are also possible)?

Rita (LW) , Chimera (LW), Horcoff (C/LW)

I never thought that deal was as one sided as many Oiler fans did. In fact, I didn't like it at the time because I didn't want to loose Torres. I hated giving up YET ANOTHER young prospect. But, I have to laugh at the stuff we see on this board now. Last year, at this time, there were quite a few Oiler fans that were telling us that Janne N. was a top 10 defensemen and a Norris contender and that the Isles could never get him. Now, after the trade is done, there a lot of focus on Janne's weaknesses (age, injury history, etc) and we hear how great Torres has been (and I'm not saying he hasn't been great). It reminds me of a lot of the discussion that went down before and after the Brewer deal.

As for Scatchard, I personally don't think it is likely he gets dealt. He doesn't make a whole lot of money and is a pretty valuable commodity on the Island. But, if he gets moved, none of what you offer will be of even vague interest. If the Isles get so desperate that they are going to want to move a 1.3 million player, they'll want picks and prospects who are currently outside the NHL. Scatchard is so seriouly underpaid that they'll move him only if they are desperate to save $ and they won't pick up any contracts in the exchange.

I also don't know that the Isles are anymore thin on LW then they are at any other position. Once Scatchard comes back, they'll have the following players who can play LW: Bates, Kvasha, Asham, Blake, Scatchard. That isn't a very impressive group of wingers, but Bates, Blake and Kvasha are all on 20 goal paces, and Scatch and Asham both could score that much if healthy. Not much in the way of high end talent, but as is the case on RW, we don't need bodies or depth.

Basically, the Isles aren't particularly strong on either wing but the Oil don't have anybody to trade who has the potential to change that.

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11-16-2003, 06:14 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I never thought that deal was as one sided as many Oiler fans did. In fact, I didn't like it at the time because I didn't want to loose Torres. I hated giving up YET ANOTHER young prospect. But, I have to laugh at the stuff we see on this board now. Last year, at this time, there were quite a few Oiler fans that were telling us that Janne N. was a top 10 defensemen and a Norris contender and that the Isles could never get him. Now, after the trade is done, there a lot of focus on Janne's weaknesses (age, injury history, etc) and we hear how great Torres has been (and I'm not saying he hasn't been great). It reminds me of a lot of the discussion that went down before and after the Brewer deal.

As for Scatchard, I personally don't think it is likely he gets dealt. He doesn't make a whole lot of money and is a pretty valuable commodity on the Island. But, if he gets moved, none of what you offer will be of even vague interest. If the Isles get so desperate that they are going to want to move a 1.3 million player, they'll want picks and prospects who are currently outside the NHL. Scatchard is so seriouly underpaid that they'll move him only if they are desperate to save $ and they won't pick up any contracts in the exchange.

I also don't know that the Isles are anymore thin on LW then they are at any other position. Once Scatchard comes back, they'll have the following players who can play LW: Bates, Kvasha, Asham, Blake, Scatchard. That isn't a very impressive group of wingers, but Bates, Blake and Kvasha are all on 20 goal paces, and Scatch and Asham both could score that much if healthy. Not much in the way of high end talent, but as is the case on RW, we don't need bodies or depth.

Basically, the Isles aren't particularly strong on either wing but the Oil don't have anybody to trade who has the potential to change that.
Hey Darth - that's why I only suggested guys making less than 1 million or an AHL prospect (Rita). Not trying to lowball Scatch's value. I agree there's not much in terms of near-term prospects that the Oil can offer as we have bled our farm team dry this fall. The only thing that I could think of that may be of even limited interest is Rita and a draft pick. I guess this depends on what you think of Rita as a player. He's similar to Torres in that he has not grabbed an NHL spot in the limited opportunities he's had - but the kid does have talent. As little as a year ago he was one of the highest ranked prospects in the AHL - but he just hasn't been able to take the next step.

So Scatch is probably staying put - but we're talking about Milbury here and who ever thought he would dump Wiemer for zilch on waivers (among countless other oddities).

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11-16-2003, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Hey Darth - that's why I only suggested guys making less than 1 million or an AHL prospect (Rita). Not trying to lowball Scatch's value. I agree there's not much in terms of near-term prospects that the Oil can offer as we have bled our farm team dry this fall. The only thing that I could think of that may be of even limited interest is Rita and a draft pick. I guess this depends on what you think of Rita as a player. He's similar to Torres in that he has not grabbed an NHL spot in the limited opportunities he's had - but the kid does have talent. As little as a year ago he was one of the highest ranked prospects in the AHL - but he just hasn't been able to take the next step.

So Scatch is probably staying put - but we're talking about Milbury here and who ever thought he would dump Wiemer for zilch on waivers (among countless other oddities).

Rita, at this point, is not a very high level prospect. He isn't at all similar to Torres. He is not as nasty and doesn't have Raffi's hands. The only similarity is that he plays a physical game. If he develops, Rita should be a very good #3 winger, but that is probably about it.

And, if he was recalled to the NHL, he would actually be making about as much as Scatchard is now. That is why I see that deal as pretty far fetched.

As for the last part, yeah, Wiemer was strange and the EVIL ONE has made bizare move after bizare move. None of that makes a Rita-Scatchard deal anymore likely.

I'm fairly certain Scatch was the player Lowe wanted in the Janne N. deal - not Torres. I think he settled for Torres, but the hold up in the deal earlier in the year was that the Isles wouldn't move Scatchard. Given the way Raffi has played, the Isles will probably regret that choice. But, I think all that shows that 1) Oil have long wanted Scatch, 2) Isles have refused to deal him in the past and they'll probably do so in the future (at least for Rita).

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11-16-2003, 06:28 PM
  #24
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Sure makes Milbury look like a giant, walking, talking ASS!!! I mean Mezei is fairly similar to Semenov IMO - and now Milbury has NOTHING to show for him!!!! NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!!! NOTHING!!!! What a hozer! I mean imagine if the Isles still had him!!!
Hamrlik-Aucoin
Niinimaa-Jonsson
Mezei-Martinek/Cairns


Poor fool - he has NO patience..... I can't believe he isn't fired yet.

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11-16-2003, 07:12 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Rita, at this point, is not a very high level prospect. He isn't at all similar to Torres. He is not as nasty and doesn't have Raffi's hands. The only similarity is that he plays a physical game. If he develops, Rita should be a very good #3 winger, but that is probably about it.

And, if he was recalled to the NHL, he would actually be making about as much as Scatchard is now. That is why I see that deal as pretty far fetched

....


I'm fairly certain Scatch was the player Lowe wanted in the Janne N. deal - not Torres. I think he settled for Torres, but the hold up in the deal earlier in the year was that the Isles wouldn't move Scatchard. Given the way Raffi has played, the Isles will probably regret that choice. But, I think all that shows that 1) Oil have long wanted Scatch, 2) Isles have refused to deal him in the past and they'll probably do so in the future (at least for Rita).
I think Rita's stock has dropped as a result of the Oilers' handling of him moreso than because of his own play. The fact that he isn't a walk on at this point obviously drops him from the #1 prospect outside of the nhl. Also, you're right about him not having the nasty streak, but he has at least as good a set of hands as Raffi if not better, and he has the hardest wristshot of anyone in the Oilers organization. I don't see him as trade bait for Scatch simply because Scatch has played far too well for far too little money to be on the blocks.

Interesting about Scatch, I agree that Lowe probably wanted him at the time, he'd be crazy not to, but at the same time I'm not sure which of the two I'd prefer here btwn him and Raffi. We obviously need Scatch more right now, but Raffi probably has more trade value overall at this point from a small market standpoint (future salary, not curent).


Side note: during HNIC on Saturday night they were talking about the Oilers who came from Long Island and the color guy said that there are currently 42 players drafted by the Isles who are regulars on other nhl teams. He never mentioned whether that was the most or not, but it does seem excessive. I doubt that there are 42 players drafted by the Oil including the ones still here

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