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Old
09-03-2006, 11:25 AM
  #1
JDNYR11
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rangers top 20 prospects

hockeys future has the rangers top 20 prospects.

http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php...readed&order=0

Rangers Top 20 prospects
1. Marc Staal
2. Al Montoya
3. Jarkko Immonen
4. Nigel Dawes
5. Bob Sanguinetti
6. Brandon Dubinsky
7. Artem Anisimov
8. Lauri Korpikoski
9. Michael Sauer
10. Hugh Jessiman
11. Marc-Andre Cliche
12. Thomas Pock
13. Ivan Baranka
14. Greg Moore
15. Tom Pyatt
16. Ryan Callahan
17. Brodie Dupont
18. Darin Olver
19. Ryan Russell
20. Zdenek Bahensky


Last edited by Holly Gunning: 09-03-2006 at 11:29 AM. Reason: mandatory link added
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Old
09-03-2006, 11:37 AM
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eco's bones
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A good list and a nice effort putting it together by Leslie. Players all seem to be somewhere in the range where I would have them with the exception of Bahensky who wouldn't have made my top 20--some I'd rather see in his place--Liffiton, Hillier, Ryan.

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09-03-2006, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JDNYR11 View Post
hockeys future has the rangers top 20 prospects.

http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php...readed&order=0

Rangers Top 20 prospects
1. Marc Staal
2. Al Montoya
3. Jarkko Immonen
4. Nigel Dawes
5. Bob Sanguinetti
6. Brandon Dubinsky
7. Artem Anisimov
8. Lauri Korpikoski
9. Michael Sauer
10. Hugh Jessiman
11. Marc-Andre Cliche
12. Thomas Pock
13. Ivan Baranka
14. Greg Moore
15. Tom Pyatt
16. Ryan Callahan
17. Brodie Dupont
18. Darin Olver
19. Ryan Russell
20. Zdenek Bahensky
I can't believe Pock is still on this list.

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Old
09-03-2006, 11:49 AM
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UAGoalieGuy
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I told you guys Anisimov had a higher value then what he was ranked in our rankings lol

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Old
09-03-2006, 11:52 AM
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How is Mighty Dwight Helminen doing?

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Old
09-03-2006, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I told you guys Anisimov had a higher value then what he was ranked in our rankings lol
I think people didn't rank Ansimov as high as others not because of his talent (I think the kid has 1st line center ability in him). The problem is, he might not ever be able to make it over from Russia, which, in my eyes, knocks him down a peg.

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Old
09-03-2006, 12:57 PM
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I would just like to thank whoever it is that made this list. It seems like a lot of work went it to it, and as a hockey fan, I appreciate any coverage the sport gets, especially living in the tri-state area, where hockey is the least appreciated sport by the media.

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Old
09-03-2006, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JDNYR11 View Post
hockeys future has the rangers top 20 prospects.

http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php...readed&order=0

Rangers Top 20 prospects
1. Marc Staal
2. Al Montoya
3. Jarkko Immonen
4. Nigel Dawes
5. Bob Sanguinetti
6. Brandon Dubinsky
7. Artem Anisimov
8. Lauri Korpikoski
9. Michael Sauer
10. Hugh Jessiman
11. Marc-Andre Cliche
12. Thomas Pock
13. Ivan Baranka
14. Greg Moore
15. Tom Pyatt
16. Ryan Callahan
17. Brodie Dupont
18. Darin Olver
19. Ryan Russell
20. Zdenek Bahensky

There were several errors on this. One, Pock is no longer one of our top 20 prospects. Ranking Sanguinetti over Sauer is ridiculous at this point. He doesn't have a complete game yet. I am hesistant to put any Russian very high on a prospect list unless they have franchise talent because so many times they are head cases. Immonen at 3 is absurd. I think he's an NHL player but his upside is pretty limited due to his skating. Ranking Pyatt over Helminen is madness. Pyatt hasn't even been a dominant player in the OHL

Rangers Top 20 prospects
1. Marc Staal
2. Al Montoya
3. Nigel Dawes
4. Michael Sauer
5. Brandon Dubinsky
6. Lauri Korpikoski
7. Bob Sanguinetti
8. Hugh Jessiman
9. Marc-Andre Cliche
10. Ivan Baranka
11. Jarkko Immonen
12. Brodie Dupont
13. Greg Moore
14. Artem Anisimov
15. Ryan Callahan
16. Dwight Helminen
17. Tom Pyatt
18. Darin Olver
19. Ryan Russell
20. Petruzalek

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Old
09-03-2006, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dupont08 View Post
There were several errors on this. One, Pock is no longer one of our top 20 prospects. Ranking Sanguinetti over Sauer is ridiculous at this point. He doesn't have a complete game yet. I am hesistant to put any Russian very high on a prospect list unless they have franchise talent because so many times they are head cases. Immonen at 3 is absurd. I think he's an NHL player but his upside is pretty limited due to his skating. Ranking Pyatt over Helminen is madness. Pyatt hasn't even been a dominant player in the OHL

Rangers Top 20 prospects
1. Marc Staal
2. Al Montoya
3. Nigel Dawes
4. Michael Sauer
5. Brandon Dubinsky
6. Lauri Korpikoski
7. Bob Sanguinetti
8. Hugh Jessiman
9. Marc-Andre Cliche
10. Ivan Baranka
11. Jarkko Immonen
12. Brodie Dupont
13. Greg Moore
14. Artem Anisimov
15. Ryan Callahan
16. Dwight Helminen
17. Tom Pyatt
18. Darin Olver
19. Ryan Russell
20. Petruzalek


The only problem I had with the list made by Leslie was that she left off Helminen who had a good season. Other than that 15-20 can be ranked in many different orders by many different people depending on personal favorites which you seem to be doing.

Great job Leslie, keep em comin!

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Old
09-03-2006, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
Immonen at 3? He's the next Johan Garpenlov
What exactly does Immonen have to do to show he is going to be an NHLer? I think he had about as good of a season as the Rangers could have hoped for out of him.

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Old
09-03-2006, 02:52 PM
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I don't see how Helmenin isn't on the list. He's consistently improved over the years and had a lot of offensive success in Hartford when most only expected him to be a defensive and speed expert. Overall, good looking list.

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09-03-2006, 03:55 PM
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lowetide...

we shall see this season. Numbers-wise, he made some great strides last season. Many who watched him last season think he could compete for the #3/4 centerman position.

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Old
09-03-2006, 04:14 PM
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Although HF originally projected Dubinsky to have third line potential, his development over the past year shows that he has at least second line potential. Dubinsky is an exciting player who may have even more potential than is visible at this point.
Do I get a whiff of *perhaps* some first line potential?

Once again, Edge was bang on. Let's hope it's the same case for Hillier.

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09-03-2006, 05:13 PM
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Do I get a whiff of *perhaps* some first line potential?
I hope so.

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Old
09-03-2006, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I don't see how Helmenin isn't on the list. He's consistently improved over the years and had a lot of offensive success in Hartford when most only expected him to be a defensive and speed expert. Overall, good looking list.
On Helminen I missed that too. He should be somewhere in the 12-15 range.

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Old
09-04-2006, 02:09 AM
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Good Job Leslie. For the most part I agree with the list with the usual few exceptions.

For one I was surprised you put Jessiman as high as you did. I would have expected to see him at least a bit further down. I'm thinking that Dupont and Moore have better NHL potential than Hugh right now and should be placed higher.

For my money Montoya, Dawes and Dubinsky showed the greatest progress last year and Helminen should have made this list.

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09-04-2006, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
On Helminen I missed that too. He should be somewhere in the 12-15 range.
If I had to pick one guy that will have the best camp it will be Helminen. Then I'd say Dawes. Helminen strikes me as a guy that constantly is proving people wrong much like Dawes. His speed should be evident right away this training camp. It's a disgrace that somebody like Pock is ahead of him. I don't see Pock having any future with this team. I still can't believe Pyatt is ahead of Helminen. He simply made the list because Renney gushed about him. Renney likes guys who can't score much.

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09-04-2006, 05:48 AM
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For one I was surprised you put Jessiman as high as you did. I would have expected to see him at least a bit further down. I'm thinking that Dupont and Moore have better NHL potential than Hugh right now and should be placed higher.
.

Well, I love Dupont but he and Moore do not have near the NHL potential Hugh does. Don't forget that Helminen did nothing in the AHL his first year offensively. Hugh did more than Helminen did. Give the kid a break. He played on a lousy college team for 2 years. Missed an entire year with an injury. Played his first year in the AHL getting used to not having a face cage and playing against men of which some are as big as he is. People constantly talk about how it takes power forwards time to figure it out but year after year, those same people have no patience.

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09-04-2006, 06:55 AM
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If I had to pick one guy that will have the best camp it will be Helminen. Then I'd say Dawes. Helminen strikes me as a guy that constantly is proving people wrong much like Dawes. His speed should be evident right away this training camp. It's a disgrace that somebody like Pock is ahead of him. I don't see Pock having any future with this team. I still can't believe Pyatt is ahead of Helminen. He simply made the list because Renney gushed about him. Renney likes guys who can't score much.

Listen Dupont--you really don't need to slam these guys so much. I'm not going to argue with your assessment of Helminen but for him to take the spot he'll have to outplay Immonen for one and that might not happen. Simply saying Pock is overrated would be enough. It seems like when you don't like someone you get really angry about it and that's not necessary. Whether Thomas someday or not makes it as a regular I don't know. He's borderline with us and if he can't secure a spot this season on our team I think that this time next year he'll be somewhere else. As for Pyatt--he might not be a big scorer in the OHL (his team isn't great either) but if you check around you have to love a lot of what you hear about his game. Making a Canadian WJC team is nothing to sneeze at. A very competitive, smart, disciplined player.

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09-04-2006, 07:57 AM
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Listen Dupont--you really don't need to slam these guys so much. I'm not going to argue with your assessment of Helminen but for him to take the spot he'll have to outplay Immonen for one and that might not happen. Simply saying Pock is overrated would be enough. It seems like when you don't like someone you get really angry about it and that's not necessary. Whether Thomas someday or not makes it as a regular I don't know. He's borderline with us and if he can't secure a spot this season on our team I think that this time next year he'll be somewhere else. As for Pyatt--he might not be a big scorer in the OHL (his team isn't great either) but if you check around you have to love a lot of what you hear about his game. Making a Canadian WJC team is nothing to sneeze at. A very competitive, smart, disciplined player.
I don't like when the people can't see the obvious and time and time again make the same mistake. It's amazing to me this guy is always on the top 20 list and he can't even play defense. At what point does the light bulb go on Pock supporters. He's 24, can't play defense and can't hit anybody. I don't understand why people continue to support this clown.

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09-04-2006, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dupont08 View Post
I don't like when the people can't see the obvious and time and time again make the same mistake. It's amazing to me this guy is always on the top 20 list and he can't even play defense. At what point does the light bulb go on Pock supporters. He's 24, can't play defense and can't hit anybody. I don't understand why people continue to support this clown.

I'm assuming you already know that he converted from forward to defense when he was in college because his coach asked him to when his team was hit by injuries. That more or less his pro career has all been on the job training in what I think is the position most difficult to learn. I really don't care whether he's in your top 20 or not--he might not be in mine either but hating him for being something he isn't is ridiculous. He'll either find a niche to fit into or he won't and will be gone. Not every D-man is going to be running guys all the time--you need guys who can skate and move the puck too or hybrids that can do both.

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09-04-2006, 11:57 AM
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I certainly would love to see Helminen have a great camp. I would rate Helminen as very close to the Top 20, but just a bit lower than Bahensky at this point. And it is true that the players from 17-20 were all very close. The reason Helminen was not on the list is because he can be streaky in his offense and lax on defense at times. I believe his top potential is third or fourth line, and that he is a B (as far as how likely he is to achieve it), therefore, he did not make the list.

As for Pock, everyone knows that he has quite a ways to go defensively. But his offensive potential is so high, that the Rangers are willing to give him more time. I think we should too. My belief is that he will eventually get to be competent defensively, and that his offensive abilities will keep him with some professional team (either in the NHL or in Europe).

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09-04-2006, 01:57 PM
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I certainly would love to see Helminen have a great camp. I would rate Helminen as very close to the Top 20, but just a bit lower than Bahensky at this point. And it is true that the players from 17-20 were all very close. The reason Helminen was not on the list is because he can be streaky in his offense and lax on defense at times. I believe his top potential is third or fourth line, and that he is a B (as far as how likely he is to achieve it), therefore, he did not make the list.

As for Pock, everyone knows that he has quite a ways to go defensively. But his offensive potential is so high, that the Rangers are willing to give him more time. I think we should too. My belief is that he will eventually get to be competent defensively, and that his offensive abilities will keep him with some professional team (either in the NHL or in Europe).

I like Helminen better than you and still consider him to be 12-15 range but having said that he did not have a very good AHL playoffs.

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Old
09-05-2006, 12:26 AM
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Well, I love Dupont but he and Moore do not have near the NHL potential Hugh does. Don't forget that Helminen did nothing in the AHL his first year offensively. Hugh did more than Helminen did. Give the kid a break. He played on a lousy college team for 2 years. Missed an entire year with an injury. Played his first year in the AHL getting used to not having a face cage and playing against men of which some are as big as he is. People constantly talk about how it takes power forwards time to figure it out but year after year, those same people have no patience.
I've been a supporter of Jessiman for a long time. Anyone who's read these boards over the last few years knows how I feel about this guy. No one wants him to succeed more than I do. In the past I've pointed out many of the same issues you list here...and added a few others. But those "issues" are ancient history.

Jessiman must at least begin to demonstrate why he was a number one pick this year. I would not call this season make or break, but his improvement has to be obvious to all. Personally I think he must be a lot more aggressive and use the size and other gifts he has more effectively. From what I've heard he gets it and is ready to deliver. We'll see.

My take on Dupont and Moore is that they bring alot more of the physical game that Jessiman needs to inject into his play. And they keep improving. As significant and legitimate as Jessiman's challenges were last year his improvement faltered. IMO he's still a top 20 prospect, just not 10th on the list.

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09-05-2006, 01:07 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by dupont08 View Post
I don't like when the people can't see the obvious and time and time again make the same mistake. It's amazing to me this guy is always on the top 20 list and he can't even play defense. At what point does the light bulb go on Pock supporters. He's 24, can't play defense and can't hit anybody. I don't understand why people continue to support this clown.
You your self said that Helminen keeps proving people wrong, and then complain that we can't see the obvious?

I can understand that you are impressed with Helminen, but I think you are misreading the AHL a bit. To start it, the level of hockey played there last season might have been the worst ever for the A. Every team down there have atleast 5 poor mans versions of Derian Hatcher. I don't think I saw a single game with a team that utilized the new rules, for such a long period of time 1-way physical players have been given a nod to make that league over skill players, it will take a while for the AHL to get back on track and teams to adopt to the new rules.

My point is that speed really kills in the AHL, while in the NHL its far from enough. Any offense Helminen created where from just buzzing around, he defenitly didn't impress at all with his hockeysense and hands. Besides his skating, Dwights skill level is closer to Jed Ortmayer then it is to Jason Ward.

Now I wouldn't go as far as saying the Dwight never will make it, he have suprised people in the past, and a hockeyplayer can develop allot over a summer, something Helminen defenitly needs to do if he is gooing to come close.

On Pck, I think the odds are in your favor that he won't make it, especially in NY. But thats pretty much the case of everyone except the top 9.

Bottomline is that I don't see a point in saying that people can't see the obvious and then point at a player like Helminen. Even if myself can be that way at times...

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