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OT:Philip Hughes is on fire.........

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Old
09-08-2006, 01:29 PM
  #51
pld459666
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Speaking of Yankees prospects

who's the kid the Yankees signed this year??

a 16 year old kid with a 6'2" 220 frame

I can't think of his name.

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09-08-2006, 02:17 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
who's the kid the Yankees signed this year??

a 16 year old kid with a 6'2" 220 frame

I can't think of his name.
Jesus Montero

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09-08-2006, 04:36 PM
  #53
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Here you want to be carefull. There are things that I do not know a lot about and things I have some knowledge of. And then there are things I know a good deal about. Baseball and various prospects is one of those. I have seen Hughes pitch. On various occasions. He projects to be a #1 starter, which is the definition of a stud. But to compare him to Felix is ludicrous. Hughes projects to be a great pitcher, no doubt about it. Felix projects to be the best pitcher in baseball.
Fair enough.

I have trouble getting overly excited about Felix (even though his fastball will probably sit in the 99-101 zone when he fills out), I forsee arm problems for him in the future.

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09-08-2006, 06:14 PM
  #54
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http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/askba/262425.html

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By Jim Callis
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September 8, 2006 Print this article


With his strong finishing kick, Yankees righthander Philip Hughes has claimed the title as the best pitching prospect in the minor leagues. In a Double-A playoff start Wednesday night, he went six innings, allowing five hits and one walk while striking out 13. He didn’t allow more than two hits in any of his last seven starts, which is impressive even if tight pitch counts kept him from going more than five innings in any outing.

In his last eight starts, including his postseason effort, Hughes has gone 4-0, 0.90 with a 61-8 K-BB ratio, .127 opponent average and no homers allowed in 40 innings. If I were running the Yankees, I’d test him out in September and get him on the postseason roster.
There's also a Tabata/Martinez section in the article.

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09-08-2006, 07:41 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
btw gretz, mets fans are the most ignorant fans right.. half the yankee fan base are not even diehards.. what are you smoking.. i'm done with this.. tb's post pretty much shut you up
Practice what you preach man. I wasn't even talking to you in my original post, I said that it was great that he's showing these Met fans that I know up. And Mets fans have done that, they bash Yankee prospects because a good portion of them are jealous of the Yankees, and have nothing else to cling onto.

I'm obnoxious and arrogant? You need to really stop and think about what you're saying, because you went out and attacked me, and yet, I'm the obnoxious and arrogant one? Stop being "holier than thou" and stick to your guns, or don't address me at all.

And I'd say that's a real sign of ignorance right there... "half of the yankee fanbase are not even diehards.." At least half of transplaced Yankee fans aren't diehards? You're probably right.

Point is, in this case, the pot is calling the kettle black. So stop playing your little games, and stop changing your stance. Say one thing, and stick to it. Don't call someone ignorant, and then say something ridiculous like you did up there. Don't call someone obnoxious and arrogant, and act the same way. You attacked me, all I said was that a lot of Mets fans have been bashing Hughes, and he's been shoving it right back in their face with the way he's been developing. It's true, a lot of Met fans I know, and a lot that I've seen on baseball forums have completely undervalued him and have bashed him. Is it possible that he's being overhyped? Sure, because at this point, it looks like Pelfrey and Humber have been completely overhyped, and all I heard from my Met fan friends is how Pelfrey is going to be an ace, and Humber was the best pitching prospect in baseball for a while.

TB, you're probably right about Tabata, and I definitely should have worded that a different way. A year or two, and he will be one of the best prospects in baseball, not a few months, sorry. The upside and skill he has is unreal, especially when he's producing in a-ball at his age. Montero, who I've heard little about is supposed to be better than him. 6'2 and 220 as a 16 year old? Jeez, what are they feeding these kids down there? But on a more serious note, it's just great to see that a lot of these prospects are coming around. I think Hughes more than on Pelfrey's level. Hernandez's? I agree, there's no way. Felix was dominant as a rookie, and will win the Cy Young on more than one occasion one day. Liriano was the same way, he was more under the radar than Felix was.

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09-08-2006, 09:48 PM
  #56
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I forsee arm problems for him in the future.
Same thing can be said of Huges, Pelfrey, Bailey, Verlander, Hamels......

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09-08-2006, 11:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Same thing can be said of Huges, Pelfrey, Bailey, Verlander, Hamels......
Probably the single biggest concern of any team with a stud young pitcher.

As a GM it has to just scare the crap out of you.

Just imagine if the Cubs could get Prior to stay healthy.

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09-09-2006, 12:00 AM
  #58
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Just imagine if the Cubs could get Prior to stay healthy.
He's probably my favorite pitcher. One day he will stay healthy. I get the feeling that like Carpenter, one day his body will just hold up. He's had some freak injuries. He probably has the best "stuff" I've seen (probably since Gooden) in a long time. He will still live up to the billing of the best pitcher of his generation.

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09-09-2006, 01:45 AM
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Probably the single biggest concern of any team with a stud young pitcher.

As a GM it has to just scare the crap out of you.

Just imagine if the Cubs could get Prior to stay healthy.
Just imagine if the Yankees would have kept onto Prior when they drafted him instead of FOOLISHLY letting him go. The Cubbies are cursed... it's the Chicago Curse that's hurting him, haha. There is a part of me in the back of my mind that thinks that could be the reason why he always gets hurt, and that part imagines what Prior would look like healthy in a Yankee uniform.

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09-09-2006, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Same thing can be said of Huges, Pelfrey, Bailey, Verlander, Hamels......
Yes, but guys who throw more heat are usually more prone to those arm problems. Pelfrey and Verlander live on fastballs. Pelfrey's only good pitch is a fastball, he has mediocre secondary pitches at this point. In what I've seen of him, because I do watch the Mets as well, he needs to work on his breaking pitches especially. Verlander, although has other pitches, throws a lot of heat, and if your motion is awkward, or hard, you're going to blow your arm out, just like Kevin Brown. Hamels I haven't seen much of, but he's got dynamite stuff from what I've been hearing.

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09-09-2006, 04:20 AM
  #61
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He's probably my favorite pitcher. One day he will stay healthy. I get the feeling that like Carpenter, one day his body will just hold up. He's had some freak injuries. He probably has the best "stuff" I've seen (probably since Gooden) in a long time. He will still live up to the billing of the best pitcher of his generation.
I got a feeling that he may be traded this off season.

Getting out of Chicago and/or a year off wouldnt be the worst thing for Prior.

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09-09-2006, 12:15 PM
  #62
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Yes, but guys who throw more heat are usually more prone to those arm problems. Pelfrey and Verlander live on fastballs. Pelfrey's only good pitch is a fastball, he has mediocre secondary pitches at this point.
Actually it is not the heat that gets young pitchers into trouble, but rather a) the mechanics of how they pitch & b) how many pitches that put strain on the elbow (slider, cutter, etc...) have they thrown at a young age.

That is why the Yankess are essentially not allowing Huges to throw his slider often, if at all at this point of his career. They want him to cultivate his curve and change. His slider may actually be his best pitch.

Verlander mixes his pitches very well. He may wing it at 100 mph, but he uses his change and other pitches very well. Pelfrey is beginning to remind me of a young Randy Johnson. He is so tall and comes at you over the top that he is very diffucult to pick up. He will develop other pitches in time, but his bread and butter will be the fastball. However, he can throw it in multiple varieties (2 seamer, 4 seamer, etc.)

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09-09-2006, 12:48 PM
  #63
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Why do Met fans care more about the Yankees than Yankee fans care more about the Mets?

I know half our fans aren't "diehards" I guess all those empty seats at Shea the past I don't know 20 years were diehard fans?

Or maybe just maybe both teams have there share of bandwagon fans. Now on to the topic at hand..

Hughes, Pelgrey, Jesus Christ, Sandy Koufax, and whoever else can't be judged until they pitched a couple of healthy seasons in the Major Leagues. Who is to say any of these kids that have been talked about will be great pitchers??

Do i need to remind the Met fans about Generation K?

Do I need to remind Yankee fans of Wade Taylor Domingo Jean, Jeff Johnson, Sam Militello (my favorite who didn't make it)

The point is sometimes a sure thing isn't a sure thing..

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09-09-2006, 01:47 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Pelfrey is beginning to remind me of a young Randy Johnson. He is so tall and comes at you over the top that he is very diffucult to pick up. He will develop other pitches in time, but his bread and butter will be the fastball. However, he can throw it in multiple varieties (2 seamer, 4 seamer, etc.)
The only thing Pelfrey and Johnson have in common is that they throw hard.

Randy always had nasty stuff but his mechanics were all out of wack. Pelfrey will never develop a secondary pitch like Johnson's slider, not too many pitchers do. Pelfrey has had a year of pro ball under his belt and has made little progress on his secondary offerings.

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09-09-2006, 02:43 PM
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The only thing Pelfrey and Johnson have in common is that they throw hard.

Randy always had nasty stuff but his mechanics were all out of wack. Pelfrey will never develop a secondary pitch like Johnson's slider, not too many pitchers do. Pelfrey has had a year of pro ball under his belt and has made little progress on his secondary offerings.
You are taking things out of context. I am not saying that Pelfrey will be the next RJ. Kind of hard to make such a prediction, considering that Johnson is going to go down in history as one of, if not the, greatest lefty of all time. I am saying that I see similar beginnings. And, actually, Pelfrey is doing much better than RJ was doing at the same point of development. Pelfrey WILL get another pitch. Probably two. However, with his height, and the point of delivery, as well as arm slot, they are very similar.

To say that he has made very little progression is a falicy. He was only drafted last year. He's doing just fine. You may not want to hear it, but Pelfrey DOES project to be a #1-type.

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09-09-2006, 03:03 PM
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The only thing Pelfrey and Johnson have in common is that they throw hard.

Randy always had nasty stuff but his mechanics were all out of wack. Pelfrey will never develop a secondary pitch like Johnson's slider, not too many pitchers do. Pelfrey has had a year of pro ball under his belt and has made little progress on his secondary offerings.
dear god, stick to hockey

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09-09-2006, 03:04 PM
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To say that he has made very little progression is a falicy. He was only drafted last year. He's doing just fine. You may not want to hear it, but Pelfrey DOES project to be a #1-type.

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09-09-2006, 04:36 PM
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That is why the Yankess are essentially not allowing Huges to throw his slider often, if at all at this point of his career. They want him to cultivate his curve and change. His slider may actually be his best pitch.

That is something that makes his performance all the more scary.


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09-09-2006, 05:38 PM
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dear god, stick to hockey
why? becuase I think pelfrey has horrible secondary pitches and question if he'll ever develop decent ones?

I could be totally wrong about Pelfrey, but atleast I dont go around acting like I know everything about baseball just because i have a subscription to Baseball America.


also TB- Even though this is Pelfrey's first year in the pros, college pitchers are supossed to be polished (see: Verlander, Miller, Weaver.)

Pelfrey projects to be a #1 IF he develops his secondary stuff- and he hasnt shown that he will.

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09-09-2006, 05:46 PM
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Personally I think Pelfrey is a little more high risk/ high reward than his contemporaries.

Because of his size, a lot depends on mechanics and finding consitency. As such he's a longer term prospect, who might not shoot through the system as fast as a lot of guys with his stuff but when he arrives could be simply dominating.

Pelfrey, whether he makes it or doesn't, is going to need time even if he does reach the bigs soon.

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09-09-2006, 06:02 PM
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also TB- Even though this is Pelfrey's first year in the pros, college pitchers are supossed to be polished (see: Verlander, Miller, Weaver.)

Pelfrey projects to be a #1 IF he develops his secondary stuff- and he hasnt shown that he will.
Verlander is the exception and not the rule. Ditto for Weaver (and with him, his delivery makes it tough on hitters when they have never seen him. I would like to see what he can do the 2nd & 3rd time around the league). You CANNOT throw in Miller and his 1 inning pitched in the majors as an example. Saying that Pelfrey has not shown that he will develop secondary pitches is a tad too early, no? Like I said, Verlander is the exception and not the rule. Kids have to llearn how to pitch and not simply throw. You need to give Pelfrey a few more years before you can make statements like that.

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09-09-2006, 06:21 PM
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Verlander is the exception and not the rule. Ditto for Weaver (and with him, his delivery makes it tough on hitters when they have never seen him. I would like to see what he can do the 2nd & 3rd time around the league). You CANNOT throw in Miller and his 1 inning pitched in the majors as an example. Saying that Pelfrey has not shown that he will develop secondary pitches is a tad too early, no? Like I said, Verlander is the exception and not the rule. Kids have to llearn how to pitch and not simply throw. You need to give Pelfrey a few more years before you can make statements like that.
Weaver and Miller both have better secondary stuff than pelfrey- that was supossed to be my point but I wasnt clear about it, my bad. Thats how college pitchers are supossed to be.

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09-09-2006, 06:57 PM
  #73
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Actually it is not the heat that gets young pitchers into trouble, but rather a) the mechanics of how they pitch & b) how many pitches that put strain on the elbow (slider, cutter, etc...) have they thrown at a young age.

That is why the Yankess are essentially not allowing Huges to throw his slider often, if at all at this point of his career. They want him to cultivate his curve and change. His slider may actually be his best pitch.

Verlander mixes his pitches very well. He may wing it at 100 mph, but he uses his change and other pitches very well. Pelfrey is beginning to remind me of a young Randy Johnson. He is so tall and comes at you over the top that he is very diffucult to pick up. He will develop other pitches in time, but his bread and butter will be the fastball. However, he can throw it in multiple varieties (2 seamer, 4 seamer, etc.)
You cut out the part where I said Verlander has secondary pitches, they're just not nearly as good as his fastball, which is one of, if not the best in the bigs at this point. It's nearly impossible to hit that tailing fastball.

Go back to the post, and quote the whole thing, and you'll see it.

That's about the only thing that Pelfrey will have in common with Johnson though. Johnson is one of a kind, and I'm not knocking Pelfrey or being arrogant or anything, but Johnson is a legendary talent. To compare a kid with parts of one pro season under his belt to a legend like Johnson is ridiculous.

Edit:

By the way, I'm not saying that Pelfrey will never have secondary pitches, or that he won't be a number one, he certainly has the upside to be a number one. What I'm saying is that he just hasn't shown us why he's a top prospect yet. He has not been all too impressive at the major league level, and to say that Phillip Hughes isn't even in his league, like I've seen a lot of Mets fans say is ridiculous. Hughes is 2 years younger, and is in earlier stages of development. To say that someone like that isn't in someone who's a little more developed's league is ridiculous as well.


Last edited by The Amity Affliction: 09-09-2006 at 07:07 PM. Reason: More
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Old
09-09-2006, 07:00 PM
  #74
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dear god, stick to hockey
What, because you disagree with him?

Quit your "holier than thou" bs, and take it someplace else.

And you called me arrogant and obnoxious...

Look at yourself before you point to put the blame away, buddy.

Unreal.

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09-09-2006, 07:49 PM
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What, because you disagree with him?

Quit your "holier than thou" bs, and take it someplace else.

And you called me arrogant and obnoxious...

Look at yourself before you point to put the blame away, buddy.

Unreal.
blablablaablablabla

i don't give a crap what either of you say, there are other posts i have disagreed with in this thread but only you both give back handed compliments or just blatent knocks on the met prospects

clearly i'm not trying to be polite toward you so what the hell is your point?

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