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Old
09-07-2006, 10:05 PM
  #76
Clutch Mediocrity
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Answer me this Kings fans; is Corvo going to be useful for the following:

- Being a #6 defenseman ES (no PK time).
- A PP defenseman who can help bolster the man advantage and provide a right handed shot on the D (something we've lacked, also helps if we want to take Alfie off the point).
- Add offensive skill and mobility to the blueline, something that we needed more of. A "new" NHL defenseman in essence.
- Maybe even help our shootout as it was horrible last year.

Plus he'll have a much better team with him in Ottawa. And Murray is an offensive coach who likes to let offensive players perform as such so I don't I think Corvo will suffer significantly in terms of opportunity to create players.

Joe Corvo will likey do just fine for his role IMO and be a more than adequate replacement for Pothier (who improved as the season went on). But what I can't understand and quite frankly am rather upset about is the big contract he got to do it. It's a noticeable blemish on an otherwise very fine off-season for John Muckler IMO. But even LA faithful will acknowledg Corvo was by far the most improved King last season. Some even nameed him as the team's unsung hero or biggest surprise at various points during last campaigne (http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=208621). If Corvo can continue his progression at such a rate he'll look a bargain by the end of his deal's duration. Or at least be worth his value. Defensemen were cashing in across the league last year anyway and I trust Sens management when it comes to making investments in their players. Even if I'm a bit skeptical about JC

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09-07-2006, 10:07 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
I don't care what pairing he plays on but if he's paired up with someone more defensively responsible than Visnovsky (which probably includes all 5 other Sens defensemen), then it stands to reason that his errors won't be as noticeable. And I don't care how he scored or how many times he missed the net, 14 goals by a defenseman is impressive.
You just exposed yourself. Visnovsky is an excellent defensemen in all three zones. With the exception of maybe Phillips, he'd be the best on your squad in his own end. He's as good as Redden in just about every facet of the game - it's unfortunate that so few get to see him out here in LA. He's been the team's true MVP over the past three seasons.

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09-07-2006, 10:12 PM
  #78
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Criticizing is not a dirty word. I'm being fair - we are discussing a guy who capitlaized on playing with one of the better defensemen in the league and posted good (but not great) numbers in his UFA contract year.

He has a quick release, skates very well and is a monster in shootouts. Those ARE his attributes, but there are far, far more questions about him than positives. He's still relatively young, but was last years quantum leap based on his pairing and contract status, or will he continue to improve? It's a fair, critical question. I refuse to crap on the guy like many fed up Kings' fans, but there is no reason to whitewash his weaknesses.
All I'll say on this is that in a thread in January on the Kings board, Corvo was talked about very favourably and called the biggest surprise of the season so far. Coincidentally, the Kings were playing very good hockey at the time. At the end of the season, as the team completed its freefall, Corvo was a bum.

And I'll also mention that "one of the better defenseman in the league" suffered the same lack of production in the 2nd half of the season as Corvo. So I ask you, could this be a product of the whole team going in the tank and not playing well as a unit? Or are the Kings now free of the albatross that is Joe Corvo and on their way to great things?

And finally it bears repeating:

Corvo on Kings= 1st pairing defenseman
Corvo on Sens= 3rd pairing defenseman

Apples and oranges. Even Corvo's biggest haters will grudgingly admit that he will be an asset on the powerplay. Seeing as that's the main reason the Sens got him, then I'd think it's mission accomplished.

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09-07-2006, 10:13 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Clutch Mediocrity View Post
Answer me this Kings fans; is Corvo going to be useful for the following:

- Being a #6 defenseman ES (no PK time).
- A PP defenseman who can help bolster the man advantage and provide a right handed shot on the D (something we've lacked, also helps if we want to take Alfie off the point).
- Add offensive skill and mobility to the blueline, something that we needed more of. A "new" NHL defenseman in essence.
- Maybe even help our shootout as it was horrible last year.

Plus he'll have a much better team with him in Ottawa. And Murray is an offensive coach who likes to let offensive players perform as such so I don't I think Corvo will suffer significantly in terms of opportunity to create players.

Joe Corvo will likey do just fine for his role IMO and be a more than adequate replacement for Pothier (who improved as the season went on). But what I can't understand and quite frankly am rather upset about is the big contract he got to do it. It's a noticeable blemish on an otherwise very fine off-season for John Muckler IMO. But even LA faithful will acknowledg Corvo was by far the most improved King last season. Some even nameed him as the team's unsung hero or biggest surprise at various points during last campaigne (http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=208621). If Corvo can continue his progression at such a rate he'll look a bargain by the end of his deal's duration. Or at least be worth his value. Defensemen were cashing in across the league last year anyway and I trust Sens management when it comes to making investments in their players. Even if I'm a bit skeptical about JC

Yes, he will be a solid #6.

Yes, he will help your shootout.

No, he will not be as effective if you put him on the right side on the PP. Put him on his offwing and you will see his lightning release. For an offensive defenseman he doesn't provide much for other players - he's strictly shoot, shoot, shoot. It's a very good shot when on target.

No, he will not significantly help your blueline because he doesn't play a team game. His qualities are strictly individual - he will not be any help to the team until he has the puck in shooting range.

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09-07-2006, 10:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
All I'll say on this is that in a thread in January on the Kings board, Corvo was talked about very favourably and called the biggest surprise of the season so far. Coincidentally, the Kings were playing very good hockey at the time. At the end of the season, as the team completed its freefall, Corvo was a bum.

And I'll also mention that "one of the better defenseman in the league" suffered the same lack of production in the 2nd half of the season as Corvo. So I ask you, could this be a product of the whole team going in the tank and not playing well as a unit? Or are the Kings now free of the albatross that is Joe Corvo and on their way to great things? Carolina made no effort to sign Gerber, because they knew they couldn't afford him. So I guess he sucks too.

And finally it bears repeating:

Corvo on Kings= 1st pairing defenseman
Corvo on Sens= 3rd pairing defenseman

Apples and oranges. Even Corvo's biggest haters will grudgingly admit that he will be an asset on the powerplay. Seeing as that's the main reason the Sens got him, then I'd think it's mission accomplished.
First, Corvo was only on the first pairing because he was the only type of player that could fit in well with Visnovsky, not because he was the second best d-man on the team. Think of a more mobile but positionally worse version of Brent Sopel.

Second, you are over-reacting. This is an analysis, not a lynching. The Kings could easily (and still could) afford Corvo, but went with a better alternative in Rob Blake.

Third, most Kings' fans have always though of him as a "bum". For his entire career he was an offensive defenseman who didn't provide any offense. He has one good year and suddenly he's an impact player who deserves over $2 million a season? The fact that he was finally producing was the surprise. I don't dislike the guy at all, but I call a spade a spade.

Lastly, Visnovsky, as I said before, was dealing with shoulder and back injuries for most of the second half of the year. His drop off was one of the contributing factors to the Kings collapse.

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09-07-2006, 10:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bland View Post
You just exposed yourself. Visnovsky is an excellent defensemen in all three zones. With the exception of maybe Phillips, he'd be the best on your squad in his own end. He's as good as Redden in just about every facet of the game - it's unfortunate that so few get to see him out here in LA. He's been the team's true MVP over the past three seasons.
I obviously don't watch L.A. as much as you do but the games I've seen have shown Visnovsky to be an excellent offensive defenseman but in no way a defensive stopper. I liken his game to Brian Leetch's. Don't take offence but it's been mentioned even here by other Kings fans that Visnovsky is not exactly a defensive d-man.

So I guess from the Kings' fan perspective, Corvo was carried offensively the 1st half of the season by Visnovsky and then was so horrible that he eventually made Visnovsky into a poor defender by season's end. That's a nice thought to have when Visnovsky's still there and Corvo's gone but it sounds like you'd like to have your cake and eat it too. Either give Corvo some credit for his great first half or allow that Visnovsky struggled through the latter part of the season along with Corvo. Can't have it both ways.

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09-07-2006, 10:27 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by bland View Post
Yes, he will be a solid #6.

Yes, he will help your shootout.

No, he will not be as effective if you put him on the right side on the PP. Put him on his offwing and you will see his lightning release. For an offensive defenseman he doesn't provide much for other players - he's strictly shoot, shoot, shoot. It's a very good shot when on target.
Thats what our PP needs so bad, along with someone to crash the net.

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09-07-2006, 10:28 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by bland View Post
First, Corvo was only on the first pairing because he was the only type of player that could fit in well with Visnovsky, not because he was the second best d-man on the team. Think of a more mobile but positionally worse version of Brent Sopel.
Irregardless of whether he should have been there or not, that's where he played on the Kings. And that resulted in him being ont he ice for big minutes against the other team's best forwards. That's not going to happen in Ottawa, he'll be protected here and that should help insulate him a little more and not look like a fool on a regular basis by throwing him to the wolves. That's what I meant by the comparison, I think he will be put in a more suitable role here that will allow him to flourish.

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09-07-2006, 10:43 PM
  #84
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Thats what our PP needs so bad, along with someone to crash the net.
Only 1 out of every 5 of his shots are on net or even tippable.

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09-07-2006, 10:44 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Venom_17 View Post
Visnovsky played 1861:32 minutes, while Corvo played 1619:05. Taking that into account, Visnovsky had quite a few less giveaways per minute played than did Corvo.

Looking at the stats on the whole...your gross statistic numbers prove that Corvo gave the puck away more than Visnovsky did.
That means Visnovsky had 0.039 giveaways/minute, while Corvo had 0.033 giveaways/minute. In what universe is 39 quite a few less than 33?

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09-07-2006, 10:50 PM
  #86
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Only 1 out of every 5 of his shots are on net or even tippable.
I am sure he will improve that part of his game. I am not too concerned. He will get to learn how to shoot the puck more accuratly from the likes of Redden,Alfredsson and Heatley. I am not to worried about his shot being inaccurate.

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09-07-2006, 10:53 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I am sure he will improve that part of his game. I am not too concerned. He will get to learn how to shoot the puck more accuratly from the likes of Redden,Alfredsson and Heatley. I am not to worried about his shot being inaccurate.
Obviously you are going to be optimistic if you dismiss his weaknesses. Many players are plagued by hard and innacurate shots. There is no guarantee that he will have improved this over the summer.

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09-07-2006, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
He'll drive you nuts. Plain and simple. The guy must lead the league in shots that missed the net. They are hard as hell I wont debate that fact but he'll get closer to hitting the glass about 2 feet wide then the net. He's awful positionally. There is no other way to put it. A lot of Visnovsky's give aways were because Joe wasn't in position and Visnovsky had to rush the play or make a play he did not want to make.

Now presenting the Corvo Mis-Highlight Reel.

First. Look at this Beautiful pass.

Corvo Passes!

Now watch him Stay in front of the net and watch leading scorer Joe Thornton.

Corvo In Front of the net.

What Side are you playing Joe?

Right or Left?

He's going to drive you nuts. Believe us.
That's the Corvo that drove me nuts. He's got a booming shot, and when it hits the net, it's damn hard for the goalie to stop. I understand that Sens fans are thinking this is a good signing, but I liken it to the Modry signing by Atlanta. They loved it when it happened, and ended up hating it with a passion after they saw him play. They went strictly by his stats as well.

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09-07-2006, 10:56 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
Now presenting the Corvo Mis-Highlight Reel.

First. Look at this Beautiful pass.

Corvo Passes!

Now watch him Stay in front of the net and watch leading scorer Joe Thornton.

Corvo In Front of the net.

What Side are you playing Joe?

Right or Left?

He's going to drive you nuts. Believe us.
That first one was an example of poor support from his teammates. The other two were just ugly.


Last edited by RTWAP*: 09-07-2006 at 11:45 PM.
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09-07-2006, 10:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Senator Stanley View Post
Obviously you are going to be optimistic if you dismiss his weaknesses. Many players are plagued by hard and innacurate shots. There is no guarantee that he will have improved this over the summer.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/colu...?columnist=104

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I still don't do what I think I can do, he says. I've had opportunities. I think at my peak I can be between a 50-and-60-point guy. I just have to bury the puck more.
Sounds like a guy commited to getting better and being the fitness freak that he is, I am sure he has been practicing his shot.

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09-07-2006, 11:31 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/colu...?columnist=104

Sounds like a guy commited to getting better and being the fitness freak that he is, I am sure he has been practicing his shot.
Thats great that he's commited to improving. I heard his interview in July when he first signed on the Team and he made it clear that he's always trying to improve on the season before. But until we see how he's changed we can't assume that he has. It is still a weakness as of now and a concern.

BTW, that article doesn't really prove anything. It's from January and the one quote which applied to your argument wasn't very specific.

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09-07-2006, 11:41 PM
  #92
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Fuhr, weren't you one of the guys that loved the Smolinski trade for some rookie named Gleason?

Kings fans WORSHIPED that trade (so much for your excellent "scouting and developing staff") and I spoke with Dave Taylor after you guys signed him to a FOUR YEAR CONTRACT... He laughed and said "Lets see how they feel after the 2nd year of that contract"

You should thank your lucky stars that you pawned him off onto Chicago.

Here's the interesting thing about your Corvo/Lubo comparisons: Throughout much of the year, Lubo was LEADING THE LEAGUE in defensive scoring and there was talk about a NORRIS. He faded, and so did the Norris talk.

You never heard a damn thing about Corvo other than he was a +24 and Blake was a -24.

How is it the Kings were so eager to let Corvo walk, but keep Lubo around to stay with Norstrom and be our #1 QB on the PP

THE SCOUTING STAFFS KNOW MORE THAN US FANS!!!

Ottawa fans nitpick everything. You're going to hate Joe Corvo.

You also said THIS which is incredibly LAUGHABLE

Quote:
Allison is a good hockey player. He is a PPG player and if he stays healthy and plays 70 games or more he could be good for 80-90 points. If we can get him cheap I would not object to the signing.

I know he is slow but the goal is to produce offense and he does a real good job of that.
And he's a PROVEN locker room cancer, and he's lazy, and he sucks, and he's slow, and he can't skate, and everyone HATES HIM!

Who gives a darn if you can "get him cheap". He's a CANCER!!!!

You lost credibility here with THAT statement, bub.

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09-07-2006, 11:49 PM
  #93
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That first one was an example of poor support from his teammates. The other too were just ugly.
I know I'm a hockey fan from California but every coach I've ever had and especially coaches who were Canadian told me this. I believe it is one of the first rules of hockey is.

NEVER PASS IT UP THE MIDDLE OF THE ICE! Especailly blind while on the Power Play. Even if he dumps it up the side I imagine there is a King camping at the Wings' Blue Line. Or at least someone in the Vicinity of the boards.

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09-07-2006, 11:54 PM
  #94
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Fuhr, weren't you one of the guys that loved the Smolinski trade for some rookie named Gleason?

Kings fans WORSHIPED that trade (so much for your excellent "scouting and developing staff") and I spoke with Dave Taylor after you guys signed him to a FOUR YEAR CONTRACT... He laughed and said "Lets see how they feel after the 2nd year of that contract"

You should thank your lucky stars that you pawned him off onto Chicago.

Here's the interesting thing about your Corvo/Lubo comparisons: Throughout much of the year, Lubo was LEADING THE LEAGUE in defensive scoring and there was talk about a NORRIS. He faded, and so did the Norris talk.

You never heard a damn thing about Corvo other than he was a +24 and Blake was a -24.

How is it the Kings were so eager to let Corvo walk, but keep Lubo around to stay with Norstrom and be our #1 QB on the PP

THE SCOUTING STAFFS KNOW MORE THAN US FANS!!!

Ottawa fans nitpick everything. You're going to hate Joe Corvo.

You also said THIS which is incredibly LAUGHABLE



And he's a PROVEN locker room cancer, and he's lazy, and he sucks, and he's slow, and he can't skate, and everyone HATES HIM!

Who gives a darn if you can "get him cheap". He's a CANCER!!!!

You lost credibility here with THAT statement, bub.
- The Smolinski deal was good. Gleason was going to re enter the draft. Smolinski over the last few playoffs had been preached as an excellent shadow. His first playoffs here he did pretty good. Id make that same deal again, we needed a second line center and Gleason was not going to play for us. We got something instead of losing him for nothing. Smoke had 46 and 48 point campeigns for us, not to bad.

- As for Allison is a proven point producer. Hell he had 60 points last year and thats him being slow. At the time we needed a second line center and getting a player that can produce 70 points for cheap is a good addition no matter how you look at it. If he is a cancer then he can be released, no harm. If he produces and keeps his mouth shut, that would be quite the bargain.


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09-08-2006, 12:18 AM
  #95
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He'll drive you nuts. Plain and simple. The guy must lead the league in shots that missed the net. They are hard as hell I wont debate that fact but he'll get closer to hitting the glass about 2 feet wide then the net. He's awful positionally. There is no other way to put it. A lot of Visnovsky's give aways were because Joe wasn't in position and Visnovsky had to rush the play or make a play he did not want to make.

Now presenting the Corvo Mis-Highlight Reel.

First. Look at this Beautiful pass.

Corvo Passes!

Now watch him Stay in front of the net and watch leading scorer Joe Thornton.

Corvo In Front of the net.

What Side are you playing Joe?

Right or Left?

He's going to drive you nuts. Believe us.

This seems to be inspired by the Don Cherry school of propaganda, selectively picking highlights to charachterize a player.

Two can play at that game. Watch these Highlights in the "recent video section," needless to say Corvo has some offensive gifts no other Senator can duplicate, even Redden.

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09-08-2006, 12:32 AM
  #96
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This seems to be inspired by the Don Cherry school of propaganda, selectively picking highlights to charachterize a player.

Two can play at that game. Watch these Highlights in the "recent video section," needless to say Corvo has some offensive gifts no other Senator can duplicate, even Redden.
His slapshot is ridiculous. He works on that and is able to bring it everyday and we have a McCabe like offensive defenseman for the PP.

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09-08-2006, 12:35 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Rhizome View Post
This seems to be inspired by the Don Cherry school of propaganda, selectively picking highlights to charachterize a player.

Two can play at that game. Watch these Highlights in the "recent video section," needless to say Corvo has some offensive gifts no other Senator can duplicate, even Redden.
He has one hell of a Shot I never said that he didn't. Just watch his Slap Shot goal against Chicago to win the game in Overtime or his goal against Jim Howard on the Penalty Shot. But they wont show you how many times he'll shoot the puck wide. It's hard as hell and wide. Notice how besides shooting wide I never mentioned his offensive play. It's his Defense that is horrible.

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09-08-2006, 12:39 AM
  #98
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He has one hell of a Shot I never said that he didn't. Just watch his Slap Shot goal against Chicago to win the game in Overtime or his goal against Jim Howard on the Penalty Shot. But they wont show you how many times he'll shoot the puck wide. It's hard as hell and wide. Notice how besides shooting wide I never mentioned his offensive play. It's his Defense that is horrible.

His defensive play can be average or below average. He was brought in for his offensive play and his PP ability.If he improves his shot look out. He will be playing on the 2nd or 3rd defensive pair so he wont look out of place defensivly. The offense is all I care about because he will be taken care of defensivly. Pothier was +29 last season. Im sure the Sens can make Corvo look decent in the defensive end.

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09-08-2006, 12:42 AM
  #99
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His defensive play can be average or below average. He was brought in for his offensive play and his PP ability.If he improves his shot look out. He will be playing on the 2nd or 3rd defensive pair so he wont look out of place defensivly. The offense is all I care about because he will be taken care of defensivly. Pothier was +29 last season. Im sure the Sens can make Corvo look decent in the defensive end.
He'll make himself look out of place sometimes too. It's hard to say with Joe. His defense isn't good. He'll drive you nuts. But when you see him shoot he'll make you forget then he goes back to D and misses an assignment horribley.

It's Give and take. I love his shot still.

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09-08-2006, 01:47 AM
  #100
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I hated Corvo for the longest time, and that incident when he kicked a girl in a bar lowered my opinion of him more.

But to be fair, he did improve in the middle of the season. He made better passes, played smarter positionally, and there was even an article about how he took anger management and how his perspective changed once he had a kid.

Overall, to be completely honest, he's just not a defenseman I would want on my team. He has a very powerful shot that a goalie wouldn't be able to follow, but it very rarely hits the target. His defensive play is horrible. Just because he looked smarter defensively doesn't mean he was "good" defensively. He makes errant passes at the most inopportune time to completely take away your own team's momentum. That Maltby goal when the game was tied 1-1 in the third period is a great example. The giveaway during a 5-3 that led to a breakaway goal (might have been the season before) is another example.

He's tolerable to some throughout the course of a season. He'd be better playing as a forward again, though. He used to be a forward, but (I think) DT wanted to develop him as a defenseman because of his shot.

Personally, I'm very glad he's no longer a King. His contract is the real kicker.

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