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is it time to sing the praises of lowe?

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Old
11-19-2003, 02:28 PM
  #1
Mr Sakich
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is it time to sing the praises of lowe?

we haven't won anything yet but he seems to be doing a pretty good job. Here is my list of his accomplishments

1 our system now produces players

2 he makes salary room for a few veterans, even ufa or sson to be ufa ones

3 good players want to play here - staios, oates, and laraque for eg

4 he seems to be doing ok with his buy low, sell high. I think we all doubted the york, devo, and cross moves at first. He seems to have a pretty good eye.

5 he isn't afraid to act

6 agents will not screw with him.

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11-19-2003, 02:34 PM
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I love his list of pure free agent signings. Staios was a stroke of genius, but the Bergeron and Conklin signings look to be pure brilliance. I understand alot of that is scouting, but the Oilers don't have a history of winning battles like the one they won over Conklin (Detroit).

I don't think he's perfect, but he's learned on the job. The Jason Smith arbitration agreement seems to have been a turning point for him, he's been tougher since then, and certainly held a tough line on Comrie.

It's like my dad always told me: a smart man doesn't get bit by the same dog twice.

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11-19-2003, 02:39 PM
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Without a doubt, Lowe is arguably the best GM in hockey. He has an incredible knack for signing the right guys, making the right trades, and overall, just making Edmonton an exciting hockey team again. And now, for the first time in a LONG time, it seems that Lowe wants to win NOW, not later, NOW.

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11-19-2003, 02:46 PM
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He has certainly improved over the years, ths year he's been much better than he was in the past summer, for example.

All his contracts look decent this time around. Not like the Brewer contract last summer.

I still don't think he's been particularly good in the trading aspect of GMing, but he's been pretty solid elsewhere. I also didn't like the idea of dealing Markkanen (I'd have rather moved Salo), but that last one is probably just a personal take.

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11-19-2003, 02:55 PM
  #5
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Here's to the solid job that Lowe has done since his time at GM


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11-19-2003, 02:57 PM
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For some reason, this reminds me of that thread a while back where the 'nuckfans jumped in and started slamming Lowe's performance...

Anyway, this week I have been thinking back to the failed attempt to acquire Lindros, when Lowe said "We will continue to think big."

Staios is on the radio right now talking about the contract extension and raving about the Oates signing, and you can just tell how sincere his belief in the organization is.

I said this before-- I think Lowe is not just managing dollars and cents and assets, I think he's trying to build a team more in his own image. Not just style of play, but attitude. Guys like Staios, Moreau, Bergeron, Conklin, York, Dvorak, Smyth fit in here. Guys like Comrie, Poti, Carter maybe not so much.

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11-19-2003, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I don't think he's perfect, but he's learned on the job. The Jason Smith arbitration agreement seems to have been a turning point for him, he's been tougher since then, and certainly held a tough line on Comrie.

It's like my dad always told me: a smart man doesn't get bit by the same dog twice.
Or maybe that could read: 'A still smarting GM doesn't get bit by the same doggone rabid agent twice.' or 'Once bitten but not twice shytered'

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11-19-2003, 03:14 PM
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theoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
we haven't won anything yet but he seems to be doing a pretty good job. Here is my list of his accomplishments

1 our system now produces players

2 he makes salary room for a few veterans, even ufa or sson to be ufa ones

3 good players want to play here - staios, oates, and laraque for eg

4 he seems to be doing ok with his buy low, sell high. I think we all doubted the york, devo, and cross moves at first. He seems to have a pretty good eye.

5 he isn't afraid to act

6 agents will not screw with him.
Number 5 is my favourite part. He doesn't have the economic resources to win without taking chances so he takes chances. IMO 98% of the world looks at the same situation and decides they can't win. I heard LaForge on TV last night reminding everybody that Lowe & MacTavish are just starting to grow into their jobs. During training camp I posted here that I figured this was the year that the training wheels came off for Oiler's management and so far it is looking all good. I have no idea how the Comrie thing will end but am totally confident that it will improve the club one way or the other.

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Old
11-19-2003, 03:40 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
we haven't won anything yet .
The key. He's doing a good job, but we have to remember what the point of it all is. Credit where credit is due, but no singing of the praises yet.

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11-19-2003, 03:41 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
I said this before-- I think Lowe is not just managing dollars and cents and assets, I think he's trying to build a team more in his own image. Not just style of play, but attitude. Guys like Staios, Moreau, Bergeron, Conklin, York, Dvorak, Smyth fit in here. Guys like Comrie, Poti, Carter maybe not so much.
Missed it the first time, but you make a very good point.


As per the main thrust of the thread here, I could be accused of seeing the world through copper-colored glasses but I've been doing cartwheels since day 1. I think his best asset has been his ability to get all of the players' contracts taken care of during the summer - the one thing I was unhappy about was his talk surrounding York's injury last season but there don't seem to be any lingering affects of that so no harm done.

I've even loved all of the trades he's made except for the Janne trade, and even then I recognized the value of the assets involved. It was just really tough to see such a great guy going the other way. As far as sentimental favorites are concerned Janne, Maltby, and McAmmond are the first three ex-Oilers I'd be happy to see back in Oilers silks.

Anyways, I agree with all the points listed in the first post, and I just have to thank all of the hockey gods for KLo being here. If the Oilers used their first ever draft pick on someone else this organization would be completely different, and not to our satisfaction.

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11-19-2003, 03:48 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich

4 he seems to be doing ok with his buy low, sell high. I think we all doubted the york, devo, and cross moves at first. He seems to have a pretty good eye.
I'm so glad I heard someone mention buy low, sell high. Very few oiler fans and edmonton media (especially the ones who criticize lowe's
moves) seem to comprehend that concept. Dvorak is a great example of this. Many people criticized that deal because Dvorak only had 6 goals that year, while Carter was our first line right winger. However, Dvorak is certainly capable of much more than six goals a year, but his recent struggles decreased his value (buying low). Carter, meanwhile, has many faults. He can't play defense and mostly feeds off his linemates instead of creating things himself. He did have great numbers, making him a very good trading commodity (selling high). I almost get the impression that oiler fans would rather buy high (bringing in Bondra) and sell low (trading horcoff at this point). I'm glad that Lowe has much more foresight than that.

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11-19-2003, 03:53 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
The key. He's doing a good job, but we have to remember what the point of it all is. Credit where credit is due, but no singing of the praises yet.
I don't think it can all be pinned down to absolute success, this is a franchise that loses it's very best players on a regular basis to the current cba. In order to win we have to beat franchises who keep their best players and acquire other elite players through free agency & favourable one-sided player/prospect swaps. Failure to do that isn't exactly failure on Lowe's part, it's just life in a small market. Just be happy this isn't baseball or we'd be watching the Rag$ and Wings in the finals every year.

This team is very strong now, and is young enough to stay together 'til they are top contenders. As of Nov 19th, 2003 I'd have to say that KLo has this franchise headed straight for success at a very high level and Oiler fans everywhere are stoked. That's all you can ask of a gm, IMO it's praise time.

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11-19-2003, 04:23 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
I don't think it can all be pinned down to absolute success, this is a franchise that loses it's very best players on a regular basis to the current cba. In order to win we have to beat franchises who keep their best players and acquire other elite players through free agency & favourable one-sided player/prospect swaps. Failure to do that isn't exactly failure on Lowe's part, it's just life in a small market. Just be happy this isn't baseball or we'd be watching the Rag$ and Wings in the finals every year.

This team is very strong now, and is young enough to stay together 'til they are top contenders. As of Nov 19th, 2003 I'd have to say that KLo has this franchise headed straight for success at a very high level and Oiler fans everywhere are stoked. That's all you can ask of a gm, IMO it's praise time.
I agree wholeheartedly. Sometimes when lowe makes deals, it's almost like people ignore the fact that he's handcuffed by finances. I think he's done an amazing job, and let's face it, it'll take more than managing skill for a GM in lowe's position to win anything. Luck is the other prerequisite.

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11-19-2003, 04:43 PM
  #14
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yeah exactly.... lowe can only do so much.... with current players like dvorak and isbister you have to hope they can start to live up to their abilities..... the same could be said about past returns like brewer and york (both of which have worked out nicely)

having trades work out and getting lucky in the draft are the only ways that small market teams could possibly hope to even compete (let alone win) with the current CBA... and that isnt right nor fair.... hopefully the war of 2004 will address some of these issues, but i somehow doubt it.... greed tends to win out over common sense in situations like this

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11-19-2003, 04:46 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicat
Without a doubt, Lowe is arguably the best GM in hockey. He has an incredible knack for signing the right guys, making the right trades, and overall, just making Edmonton an exciting hockey team again. And now, for the first time in a LONG time, it seems that Lowe wants to win NOW, not later, NOW.
I don't think you can go that far. Today's genius is tomorrow's village idiot. What Lowe has done is simply a good job. He is surrounded by good intelligent people that do their jobs well and that makes his life a whole lot easier.

1)He has good business people helping him out on the business end of things

2)He has good hockey people to help him out on the hockey end of things

3)He has good employers that don't meddle and let him run things. Though their advice is appreciated

You can't go too wrong when the organisation is like that.

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11-19-2003, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOZ
I don't think you can go that far. Today's genius is tomorrow's village idiot. What Lowe has done is simply a good job. He is surrounded by good intelligent people that do their jobs well and that makes his life a whole lot easier.

1)He has good business people helping him out on the business end of things

2)He has good hockey people to help him out on the hockey end of things

3)He has good employers that don't meddle and let him run things. Though their advice is appreciated

You can't go too wrong when the organisation is like that.
There's no doubt that he's getting input from a lot of great sources but at the end of the day he's not just rubber-stamping things, he's making the final decisions on all of the important calls.

Armchair quarterbacks like you and me can make all the mistakes we want but every decision KLo has ever made as the gm here is recorded in black and white and we can judge him 'til the end of time. If his decisions were bad we'd be demanding his head whether he was getting sage advice or he was reading my dumbarse posts, I think it's ony fair that we give him full credit.

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11-19-2003, 05:06 PM
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I don't think I would call his tenure a complete success until he gets a stud goalie. Until then, he can make all the good moves he wants but we won't win a cup. This inability to get a goalie has a medical name - bobby clarkitis.

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11-19-2003, 06:00 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
... I think it's ony fair that we give him full credit.
Agreed. But what about Kevin Prendergast? He certainly deserves a fair share of the credit as well.

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Old
11-19-2003, 06:37 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
I don't think it can all be pinned down to absolute success, this is a franchise that loses it's very best players on a regular basis to the current cba. In order to win we have to beat franchises who keep their best players and acquire other elite players through free agency & favourable one-sided player/prospect swaps. Failure to do that isn't exactly failure on Lowe's part, it's just life in a small market. Just be happy this isn't baseball or we'd be watching the Rag$ and Wings in the finals every year.

This team is very strong now, and is young enough to stay together 'til they are top contenders. As of Nov 19th, 2003 I'd have to say that KLo has this franchise headed straight for success at a very high level and Oiler fans everywhere are stoked. That's all you can ask of a gm, IMO it's praise time.
I think you know what I'd say to that as my reason for not agreeing with that POV. I've said it enough times on here. No excuses, plain and simple.

Baseball is much more complicated than that as well. You have the Orioles, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. who never win because their management is near-incompetent. What we should be thankful of is that our teams haven't become NFL-style in regards to competitiveness. That league wreaks of mediocrity. They are lucky so many people are raised on football and are "football fans" instead of fans of teams.

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11-19-2003, 07:03 PM
  #20
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There is definatley some good karma surrounding the organization today. The players as mentioned were aquired at a time when their value was low. For whatever reason their organizations had given up on them. It takes a keen eye and a craftmans hand to rebuild a damaged player. And to know which players can be repaired.

How the team was built.
Drafted.

Smyth (Sather)
Horcoff (Sather)
Laraque (Sather)
Hemsky (Lowe)
Comrie (Sather)
Semenov (Lowe)
Pisani (Sather)
Stoll (Lowe)
Sarno (Sather)

Traded for.

Dvorak (Lowe)
York (Lowe)
Isbister (Lowe)
Smith (Sather)
Brewer (Lowe)
Salo (Sather)
Reasoner (Lowe)
Cross (Lowe)
Torres (Lowe)
Moreau (Sather)

UFA signings.

Staios (Lowe)
Cross (Lowe)
Oates (Lowe)
Bergeron (Lowe)
Conklin (Lowe)

Looks like Sathers mark is almost clean. I feel very greatful for the history that I have been a part of. Nostalgic because of the upcoming event perhaps. However with all the positives that we are seeing develop before us. Its got to be the most excited I've been in a long time about the future of our Hockey club. We want more than just a competitive team. And so does our GM!

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Old
11-20-2003, 11:50 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOZ
I don't think you can go that far. Today's genius is tomorrow's village idiot. What Lowe has done is simply a good job. He is surrounded by good intelligent people that do their jobs well and that makes his life a whole lot easier.

1)He has good business people helping him out on the business end of things

2)He has good hockey people to help him out on the hockey end of things

3)He has good employers that don't meddle and let him run things. Though their advice is appreciated

You can't go too wrong when the organisation is like that.
Yes you can. I've been involved in a sports (soccer) organization for the past six years. I've seen the ugly head of office / organizational politics raise its ugly head time and again. Its easier to make good moves when you have good people around you. Its still possible to make dumb moves regardless.

e.g. Man drives in car through a new neighbourhood. He has his wife, a map in the glove compartment and a GPS. He still refuses to use any of them and proceeds to get lost.

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11-20-2003, 12:02 PM
  #22
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It's definitely a 'team' effort for the Oilers to make it successful (and defining that term is tricky), but you have to look at the top guys and see how they've taken care of their own areas of responsibility.

Lafarge - has continued to turn around the Oilers' connection with the community, so that the nasty old days in Pocklington's latter years are a distant memory. He's taken some of the guys (incl. Lowe) out to surrounding areas as well, as far away as Lloydminster, to cultivate more ties to the communities in the area.

Lowe - I believe it was his call to keep Prendergast and Howson around, and to guide the (long overdue) overhaul of the scouting system & personnel. Changing the attitudes in the hockey side of the organization from Sather's 'old-boy' network. All these changes take time, but in the end, Lowe has the ultimate responsibility to make the tough choices... if the scouts suggest a player from another team is available but it would cost our own player 'x', Lowe has to decide yes or no, and who to pursue, etc.

VERY good job all-around - I think all his (and Lafarge's) efforts are starting to bear fruit here. And what an awesome week for K-Lowe & the Oilers!

Bart

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11-20-2003, 01:23 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
Yes you can. I've been involved in a sports (soccer) organization for the past six years. I've seen the ugly head of office / organizational politics raise its ugly head time and again. Its easier to make good moves when you have good people around you. Its still possible to make dumb moves regardless.

e.g. Man drives in car through a new neighbourhood. He has his wife, a map in the glove compartment and a GPS. He still refuses to use any of them and proceeds to get lost.
What about OnStar?

New neighbourhood. Old car.


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Old
11-20-2003, 01:32 PM
  #24
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I'm sorry but I disagree that it's time to start singing praises for Lowe's team yet. 3 years, 2 playoff apperances and only 4 playoff games won, doesn't make a genius in my mind.

He handled the Todd Marchant situation wrong. Like him or hate him(Marchant) Lowe had to get something back in return for him. Marchant was at his highest values at the trade deadline and Lowe didn't pull a deal. This goes against any buy low sell high praise. He screwed up not offering Marchant 2 million so we could have kept his rights (please don't tell me it woould have cost 3.5mil becausethat was his UFA value, Marchant stated he would've stayed for 2). But he didn't and we lost him. So now Lowe signs a vet to take faceoffs and help our special teams when we had a vet who was loyal, had been here 10 years and was good on the face off dot and on special teams (granted penalty killing not PP). Where's the gain, by my caclulation we lost 11 years in the age department.

The Carter trade was bad, he trades him while his value is high for a 5-6 D man he could've signed a month before for peanuts and a winger who can't pull the trigger. This in a draft year where the consenus is that its the deepest draft in a decade. Why not make the move at the draft and get the D-man we so surely need? Carter had to have higher value than that.

Lowe signs Dopita, which forces us to move Grier? We lost on that one.

Lowe made the best trade of his career when he traded Hecht for 2, 2nd round picks that became Stoll and JDL. He had to though to make up for the worst trade of his career the Weight trade. Our franchise player traded for a 3rd line center and garbage.

Lowe has made some good deals and some good signings but he's running a "C" average in my opinion.

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