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Is the NE division really just a 2 legged race?

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Old
09-19-2006, 03:41 PM
  #26
RussCourtnallsGhost
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"Huet had a terrific finish to the season, but he's been in the NHL a few years."

Um... what? Seriously, what do you mean here? You basically said he's good, but "he's been in the NHL a few years", what does that mean? Cuz it makes no sense whatsoever.

And why would you compare him to Rolosson? His career is much more similar to Gerber. Both the same age, both played 2 years in a marginal role for Californian teams, both played very decent, the they moved on to an Eastern team for their first starting role. My contention, and the stats will definitely back me up on this, is that he has less "question marks" than Gerber. Please prove me wrong. I love a good debate.

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09-19-2006, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
I'm not arguing that these guys won't be good, maybe great NHL players someday. But they aren't on these levels just yet.
I agree, but I feel they will progress to great players this year, particually Toivonen.

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09-19-2006, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
The Sens didn't have a #2 center all last year, so it won't be a huge problem until the playoffs if it doesn't work out. I think Kaigorodov will be fine though.

Nice to see you back posting, btw. Hadn't seen you all summer on the boards.
While that is true, having a 1-2 punch down the middle seems to be the recipe for success. For Ottawa, if Kaigorodov isn't the answer, we might be in serious trouble. Look at the past 10-12 years for the Cup winners. Yzerman-Fedorov, Forsberg-Sakic, Modano-Nieuwnedyk, Richards-Lecavalier and Staal-Brind'Amour. Spezza-Kaigorodov??? Who knows, but if Kaigorodov does falter, we need to get a big gun for the end of the year down the middle who can step in.

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09-19-2006, 03:47 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
And an ineffective Kaigarodov won't cripple the Sens, you're right...but it does leave them without a # 2 or # 3 center, and if that's not crippling, I don't know what is...
If a gang of Ninja's kidnapped Kaigorodov tonight, we could still role 3 full lines.

Eaves- Spezza - Heatley
Schaefer- Fisher - Alfie
McAmmond - Vermette - Neil

It would spare us from making McAmmond or Vermette a 4th line LW.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Can somebody explain the difference between Buffalo and Montreal in terms of player personnel to me? ... Because I don't see it.

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09-19-2006, 03:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Chrass View Post
Firstly the sens have only been a 'powerhouse' for probably 2 of the last 4 seasons(when they amassed 113 pts, both times). Other than that they were very competitive for 2 years and fairly average or abismal otherwise.

Losing Chara IMO, will barely affect the team. I think people will see just how overated he truly is. He has half the passing ability of Redden and these days you need D-men to move the puck. Phillips will shine this year, he's underated by so many.
In regards to Gerber, when Hasek went down last year Emery more than held the fort down the stretch and also won a playoff series. I don't see a question here at all...goaltending will be, at the very least, more than adequate to get the sens to the playoffs

Kaigorodov is the only question....but so far he looks to be adjusting pretty well (accoding to reports).
While I agree in theory with what you're saying...don't kid yourself in thiking the loss of Chara won't be felt, please that's a joke...that doesn't mean you can't overcome it, but having Zdeno Chara gave the Sens an advantage no one else had...I compare it to the NBA and the Heat with Shaquille O'Neal, sure, he's maybe not the best player in the league, but he's the question that no team has a answer for.

I to feel that Chara is overrated and as an Ottawa resident who has a soft spot for the Sens even though I'm a Habs fan, i'm very glad they decided to keep Redden rather than Chara, smart move. However, just because he's no longer a Sen, doesn't mean you guys should have short memory and disreguard the affect a guy like him had. I also agree that Phillips is a very underrated defensman and he should have a breakout season and be mentionned along with names like Robyn Regehr and Scott Hannan.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Sens are screwed, sorry if my post came off like that...but, the gap is closing between the Sens and the rest of the division IMO

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09-19-2006, 03:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by discostu View Post
Because Huet only played for half the season. There's naturally a lot of risk with a goalie that has never started more than 33 games in one season.
A good point. Huet played 36, while Gerber played 60. But if you're suggesting that Huet can't handle a heavy workload, then there's always Aebischer to back him up. The only reason I'm even pursuing this thread is because he seems to make some mystery claim that Ottawa's goaltending is less of a "question mark" than Montreal's. But besides the extra 24 games under Gerber's belt last year, Huet looks to be the better goalie(for last year, at least). Added to that is the fact that we have another number one goalie in Aebischer, and I fail to see these big "question marks".

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09-19-2006, 03:53 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
The Sens didn't have a #2 center all last year, so it won't be a huge problem until the playoffs if it doesn't work out. I think Kaigorodov will be fine though.

Nice to see you back posting, btw. Hadn't seen you all summer on the boards.
I'm not saying the Sens couldn't make due, you've got enough talent and experience and a savy GM to handle that...but to win a cup or make serious noise in the playoffs...that's another story.

- Thanks for the kind words, after my Habs get eliminated, I need hockey detox so I don't think hockey until training camps...I miss it too much. I see you switched your name

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09-19-2006, 03:56 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
"Huet had a terrific finish to the season, but he's been in the NHL a few years."

Um... what? Seriously, what do you mean here? You basically said he's good, but "he's been in the NHL a few years", what does that mean? Cuz it makes no sense whatsoever.
My point was that he is no spring chicken either who just stepped up his game who you can count on for years and years. One little hot streak at the end of last year, the only part of his career where he has accomplished anything, does not give me this impression that he is the answer for Montreal this year. If he does work out, perfect for the Habs, but don't kid yourself if you think he has proven himslef to be a top notch goalie at this stage.

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And why would you compare him to Rolosson? His career is much more similar to Gerber. Both the same age, both played 2 years in a marginal role for Californian teams, both played very decent, the they moved on to an Eastern team for their first starting role. My contention, and the stats will definitely back me up on this, is that he has less "question marks" than Gerber. Please prove me wrong. I love a good debate.
That's a good point with Gerber, he is certainly comparable as well to Huet in terms of age/situation. My point was to give a guy a deal like Roloson did on what little he did. I know Roloson made a great run to the Final, but would you have signed him to a 3 year deal and put your faith in him after what he has done over his entire career??? I wouldn't have, but Lowe was stuck. That's what I was getitng at with Roloson-Huet, but point taken for Huet-Gerber.
As for the Gerber-Huet comparison, I agree that there is big similarity, but I do think Gerber proved more over the course of last year his worth throughout the whole season. I just think Gerber is a better goalie then Huet.

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09-19-2006, 04:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
A good point. Huet played 36, while Gerber played 60. But if you're suggesting that Huet can't handle a heavy workload, then there's always Aebischer to back him up. The only reason I'm even pursuing this thread is because he seems to make some mystery claim that Ottawa's goaltending is less of a "question mark" than Montreal's. But besides the extra 24 games under Gerber's belt last year, Huet looks to be the better goalie(for last year, at least). Added to that is the fact that we have another number one goalie in Aebischer, and I fail to see these big "question marks".
It's not the workload issues, it's about a demonstrated ability to sustain a level of play over the course of a season. Huet jumped in halfway, and looked very good, but, it's a smaller sample to work from.

Goalies get hot hands all the time. Mind you, Huet's stretched over a large period, but, it's still a risky proposition.

Like I said, there's question marks all over the league. Outside the names of Brodeur, Kipper, Luongo and Vokoun, I don't think any of the goaltenders can be relied upon with a great deal of assurance that they will be provide top 10 goaltending to their team. Every other goaltender has major risks involved.

With those risks, each fan seems to have their own preferences. Some might prefer Huet's high level of play over the course of the latter half of the season. Others might prefer Cam Ward or Dwayne Roloson's great playoff success. Others may take the young prospect goalie that took major strides forward last year like Miller, Lehtonen, etc. Someone may prefer a guy like Gerber, who successfully backboned a team to success over the course of the entire season.

Or, someone may really like DiPietro and sign him for 15 years.

Right now, it really is a "to each his own" scenario.

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09-19-2006, 04:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
My contention, and the stats will definitely back me up on this, is that he (Huet) has less "question marks" than Gerber. Please prove me wrong. I love a good debate.
Huet has never started more than 42 games in a pro season (that was in 2003-04 with the Kings, and repeated last year if you include the playoffs.). Gerber started 60 last year, of which he won 38, which by the way is more than Huet had regular season starts.

You may choose to disagree, but to me, that's a huge question mark for Huet.

EDIT: darnit, everyone beat me to it... my net connection here sucks. greetings from San Francisco, btw

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09-19-2006, 04:03 PM
  #36
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Sorry, I missed the Chara thing somehow....

Chara's defensive play was the biggest loss on our team this season!
Havlat didn't play. Smoke and Varada are easily replaceable. Hasek didn't play when it mattered and didn't really have an oppurtunity to affect the game when he did (Yippee, we win 6-1 instead of 6-3).
Chara played almost 6 minutes of PK time per game. Broke up passes, made it nearly impossible to skate around him, kept the puck in the offensive zone better than anybody, was our best player in front of the opposing net because of his determination, didn't allow anyone to get comfy in our crease and had a bullet shot.

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09-19-2006, 04:06 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
As for the Gerber-Huet comparison, I agree that there is big similarity, but I do think Gerber proved more over the course of last year his worth throughout the whole season. I just think Gerber is a better goalie then Huet.
So basically, you're saying because Gerber played 24 more games than Huet, but had significantly lower stats, that he was a better goalie?

Oh, and here are those stats, I think they're different enough to call them 'significant':
Gerber: save % .906
gaa 2.78

Huet: save % .929
gaa 2.20

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Old
09-19-2006, 04:12 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
So basically, you're saying because Gerber played 24 more games than Huet, but had significantly lower stats, that he was a better goalie?

Oh, and here are those stats, I think they're different enough to call them 'significant':
Gerber: save % .906
gaa 2.78

Huet: save % .929
gaa 2.20
Don't forget the playoffs...Huet was by far the better goalie.

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09-19-2006, 04:14 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
So basically, you're saying because Gerber played 24 more games than Huet, but had significantly lower stats, that he was a better goalie?

Oh, and here are those stats, I think they're different enough to call them 'significant':
Gerber: save % .906
gaa 2.78

Huet: save % .929
gaa 2.20
24 games is a big difference. You aren't going to change my mind here because of a few stats. Statistics aren't everything and I have acknowledged that Gerber has question marks too. I just think he is better then Huet and why I think Gerber has less questions with his team the Gerber does.

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09-19-2006, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sting View Post
It won't. Corvo and Preissing are two great additions. It also allows Phillips to increase his role, which he deserves.



Carolina won the Stanley Cup with Gerber winning them games all season long. Had he not been ill there's a good chance he'd be the goalie winning the final game.


So far so good for Kaigs, I think he'll be fine. If not, we have Vermette and Fisher who are capable of accepting that role as the 2nd line center.
Had Gerber been in nets the whole series, there's a good chance Montreal knocks them out, alot more likely than Gerber bringing the Cup to Caroline like Ward did...

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09-19-2006, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by habs911 View Post
Don't forget the playoffs...Huet was by far the better goalie.
I think the health of Gerber in the Habs series has been very well documented and doesn't merit re-hashing. Once he came back (during the Buffalo series) he was very good.

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09-19-2006, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Had Gerber been in nets the whole series, there's a good chance Montreal knocks them out, alot more likely than Gerber bringing the Cup to Caroline like Ward did...
That's probably true, as each series takes on a life of its own. I guess we'll never know!!

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09-19-2006, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by King Clancy View Post
Gerber started 60 last year, of which he won 38, which by the way is more than Huet had regular season starts.

You may choose to disagree, but to me, that's a huge question mark for Huet.
I choose to disagree with you!
Gerber did not win those games. Carolina won those games. We're talking about goaltending here. Carolina obviously had a better team than the Habs last year, so if you're going to compare goalies, you should compare their abilities, not the teams they play on (otherwise, everyone would think Lalime was a great goaltender!)
The original question was about goaltending situations in the NE, my sole contention is that a Huet/Aebishcer tandem has less "question marks" than a Gerber/Emery tandem. I even compared their career stats, if you'd like to read over the thread, the only advantages I can see that Gerber has over Huet is an extra 24 games last year, but Huet's significantly better stats more than make up for that.

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09-19-2006, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
That's probably true, as each series takes on a life of its own. I guess we'll never know!!
That wasn't a knock on Gerber...for whatever reason ( he was apparently sick, but I don't buy it) the Habs had his number in the 1st two games, and them making the switch to Ward had a huge part in them winning the Cup. Sometimes goalies get into funks, it just so happened that Gerber's was in game # 1 and # 2 of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

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09-19-2006, 04:24 PM
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all in all...I can't wait for the year to start...

Good luck to the Sens this year, i'm sure we'll talk again

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09-19-2006, 04:25 PM
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I choose to disagree with you!
Fair enough, we've agreed to disagree!

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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
Gerber did not win those games. Carolina won those games. We're talking about goaltending here.
I have to disagree vigourously with you here. If you want to compare stats, you have to look at the whole picture, and not pick-and-choose the stats that illustrate your point while ignoring the ones that go against you.

I watched a lot of Habs games last year, and from what I saw, the team played a very strong defense with Huet in net. The D would collapse in front of the net and protect him down low, letting him handle low-percentage outside shots... So the team won those games, and gave him those nice GAA and SV% stats. Same as playing on Carolina helped Gerber win 38 games. The Habs played a much more conservative, defense-oriented game than the Hurricanes did.

I agree that the difference isn't all that huge, btw. I wouldn't pick Huet over Gerber, but I can see why you wouldn't pick Gerber over Huet.

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09-19-2006, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
That wasn't a knock on Gerber...for whatever reason ( he was apparently sick, but I don't buy it) the Habs had his number in the 1st two games, and them making the switch to Ward had a huge part in them winning the Cup. Sometimes goalies get into funks, it just so happened that Gerber's was in game # 1 and # 2 of the Stanley Cup playoffs.
You believe that he lied about the flu, and was signficantly underweight due to other reasons?

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09-19-2006, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
24 games is a big difference. You aren't going to change my mind here because of a few stats. Statistics aren't everything and I have acknowledged that Gerber has question marks too. I just think he is better then Huet and why I think Gerber has less questions with his team the Gerber does.
So, you're argument is essentially this: Gerber is better than Huet because he played 24 more games than him last season, even though Huet had better stats, because stats aren't everything.
*cough*
Sorry, I'm just flabbergasted that anyone could call a team with two number one goaltenders as having "questionable goaltending", it seems to defy some sort of logic. How many starting goaltenders do we need before our goaltending becomes better than "questionable"?

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09-19-2006, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
So, you're argument is essentially this: Gerber is better than Huet because he played 24 more games than him last season, even though Huet had better stats, because stats aren't everything.
*cough*
Sorry, I'm just flabbergasted that anyone could call a team with two number one goaltenders as having "questionable goaltending", it seems to defy some sort of logic. How many starting goaltenders do we need before our goaltending becomes better than "questionable"?
You believe what you want. I don't see too many people defending this position you've taken that there aren't question marks for the Habs in nets and that they have these two number 1 goalies that are the answers for the Habs. I know I wouldn't want either Huet or Aebischer as my starting goalie and I'd bet that over 95% of the people around here would say the same.
If you think your point is valid and the only way it is, that's great. Your everyone's hero!!

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09-19-2006, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stryder6 View Post
So, you're argument is essentially this: Gerber is better than Huet because he played 24 more games than him last season, even though Huet had better stats, because stats aren't everything.
Did Huet have a 50 save shutout preformence against canada at the olympics?

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